Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 12:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have posted the example in another thread, of two hard-working public servants, a garda and a nurse, both working for the last five years, who take home after tax and rent, less money than Margaret Cash.

The dream of a "forever house" or even being able to start a family is something that they will have to work very hard for years to come to achieve. Unlike Margaret Cash.

I have no issue with non-criminal Traveller culture, I just have an issue with paying for it.

Your ire should be directed at those facilitating that, the current and previous governments. Not hard to know what parties they are - FF FG, Lab, Greens and some independents. What have they done to mitigate these abuses, what have they done to resource the upholders of the laws that are clearly being broken by more than travellers, and why do people keep voting them in while hooraying the likes of a single issue powerless candidate like Casey.

Beggars belief really.

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 12:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you review history, you will find the same language used about settled Irish too.
It is also the language you will hear unleashed by irresponsible public reps, just before pogroms and massacres.
You have to remove people's humanity first before you can destroy them, as somebody said of Rwanda.
Scary reading some of the stuff written here, while recognising that there are problems with the traveller community.

I'm a historian.

My thesis contained all these same claims made by Tudor officials against the Gaelic Irish.

Drunks.
Liars.
Uneducated.
Uncivilised.
Incapable of 'correction'.
Need to 'deal' with them.
Thieves.
No respect for property.

The language stays the same but the target changes.

pumpkin4life · 22-10-2018 12:05pm

Someone put these up in Harolds Cross earlier today apparently.

God bless you Casey. This whole thing is fùcking hilarious.

SafeSurfer · 22-10-2018 12:07pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No Tayto, a quick look would tell you that the 'above their means' lifestyle is the problem. It has to be sustained.
I understand this dilemma, we choose to have one parent at home in this house. On the simple basis of what is the point of having children in the first place.

Maybe you could show a little bit of tolerance to those who do not share your views. Up to 50% of working parents income is deducted to subsidize those who feel entitled not to work.
The whole point of having children? People have children for all sorts of reasons including seeing them as a source of income. Passing on a strong work ethic to one’s children is something to be proud of in my opinion. There are many non working parents who never spend time with their children through actions much less commendable than going out and doing a days work.

Huntergonzo · 22-10-2018 12:08pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You won't be the first person to make racism or bigotry claims within this thread, I don't believe anyone successfully pointed out what exactly Casey said that was racist or bigoted?

Over to you.

100%, I haven't seen or heard everything that Peter Casey has said but so far I can't see anything to suggest that he is racist or bigoted etc.

It's incredible when you think of what's happening, one of the most common complaints you hear about politicians is that they're all liars. Then a somebody runs for election, tells the truth and gets torn apart for it, I mean what sort of fúcking idiots are we!

Why would a politician tell the truth, it's politicial suicide and the media's hypocritical reaction to Casey's comments completely vindicates every lying politician. We want liars, every election proves this is the case.

gmisk · 22-10-2018 12:09pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Someone put these up in Harolds Cross earlier today apparently.

God bless you Casey. This whole thing is fùcking hilarious.

Michael D that well known homophobe...

These are like those crazy self published save the 8th ones.
The .exe and .mp3 extensions....totally down with the kids/nerds!

muh.oppression?

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 12:09pm

blanch152 wrote: »

For all the bile that Casey unleashed, there are even more people who are listening and saying that there is more than an element of truth to what he says.

The welfare dependency culture, the toleration of criminal elements within the Traveller community, these are issues that need public debate.

Can we talk about the welfare dependency of working families whose wage isn't sufficient to support them?
A minimum wage which is less than the acknowledged living wage.
Employers paying people lass than they can live on.

Can we discuss how welfare supports like Family Income Supplement is subsiding employers?

Padraig Mor · 22-10-2018 12:11pm

joe40 wrote: »

lets hear solutions rather than more stories we are all familiar with.

Traveller apologists have given us decades of 'solutions' which have only served to make the problem worse.

We've had 50 years of the carrot. It's time for the stick.

SafeSurfer · 22-10-2018 12:11pm

gmisk wrote: »

Michael D that well known homophobe...

These are like those crazy self published save the 8th ones

The poster doesn’t imply Michael D is homophobic. It implies he believes Casey to be.

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 12:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said it. What is 'divisive' about it? I take it 'divisiveness' is a threat to the natural order?

Please elaborate or we will just take your objections as just another fairly useless bitchy rant about themuns over there.

The minute you designate a group as “special” Francie they are no longer equal. It’s basic logic but that’s obviously not your forte!

I’ll leave it there Francie, I’ve a job to do but feel free to patrol “here” night and day as is your right in an equal society.

Others might think you’re “special” though...ðŸ˜

TbL

Varik · 22-10-2018 12:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was responding to this, the type of bile Casey irresponsibly unleashed.

Nothing untrue in what he said..

McMurphy · 22-10-2018 12:12pm

gmisk wrote: »

Michael D that well known homophobe...

These are like those crazy self published save the 8th ones

The poster is implying that all the other candidates are insinuating something about Casey, it's not insinuating MDH is homophobic himself.

Danzy · 22-10-2018 12:15pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why do you see Special Ethnic Minority status as a threat to your 'equality'?

Can you expand on why a symbolic gesture to foster inclusiveness and parity of esteem threatens you?

I suppose he sees it as not fostering inclusiveness or parity of esteem.

Nor that it was intended to.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 12:16pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

The minute you designate a group as “special” Francie they are no longer equal. It’s basic logic but that’s obviously not your forte!

I’ll leave it there Francie, I’ve a job to do but feel free to patrol “here” night and day as is your right in an equal society.

Others might think you’re “special” though...&#55357;&#56877;

TbL

Are 'Special Needs Children and Adults' more equal than you or me or is it simply a way to define difference? You have climbed up on a soapbox and cannot accept that you have nothing to define what threat Special Status is to your equality.

*And the traditional barb/abusive comment appears, as it always does, when people can't stand over what they write.

:D

dav3 · 22-10-2018 12:22pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Someone put these up in Harolds Cross earlier today apparently.

God bless you Casey. This whole thing is fùcking hilarious.

Nice, that "someone" is very edgy.

Am I doing it right?

Idbatterim · 22-10-2018 12:24pm

The man just keep going up in my estimation. He has now waded into the twenty billion plus euro welfare “debate” that **** Regina Doherty, says his comments display breathtaking arrogance. Her comments display breathtaking hypocrisy and arrogance and she’s out of touch.

Isn’t it her party that claim to represent workers?! Isn’t it her party that gave across the board welfare increases to every welfare recipient? Isn’t it her party that gave a worker on e30,000 less than a euro a week back? Christ they’ll hate someone in the public eye, raising what the silent majority think and feel! Ff used to buy everyone off, now it appears fg have gone even more left and just buy welfare recipients off. Paranoid off their bean that their failed “ a recovery for everyone” gaffe the last time , has to be overcompensated for. #caseynumber1

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election-2018/casey-faces-new-storm-over-welfare-comments-37443770.html

“However, the businessman is at the centre of fresh criticism over his suggestion that Ireland has become a "welfare state".

Social Protection Minister Regina Doherty has accused the former 'Dragons' Den' investor of "breath-taking ignorance".

Writing an open letter in the 'Sunday Independent', Mr Casey took aim at what he sees as Ireland becoming a "nation of people who expect - no, demand - that the State looks after them”

Ms Doherty has called on Mr Casey to clarify his remarks about social welfare in Ireland.

The minister, who is co-ordinating Fine Gael's campaign for Michael D Higgins's re-election, called on Mr Casey to outline who he "wants to target for less welfare".

"Would it be pensioners, who are the single biggest block of recipients, or maybe lone parents who, in the main, are women trying to raise families on their own?

"Or maybe he wishes to target people living with disabilities or carers or children? Exactly which group should get less?" she asked, before going on to add: "On this topic, as with others, his ignorance is breath-taking."

In his open letter, Mr Casey noted that "there are many people very vulnerable in this country, who are disabled, elderly, in care or for whatever reason, can't work; they deserve every penny in support, if not more."

However, he claimed: "But Ireland is slowly becoming a welfare-dependent state, with a sense of entitlement that's become unaffordable."

Mr Casey hit out at "socialist politicians" who he said were focusing on welfare and social housing at the expense of "the mortgage-payers and the taxpayers".

"Where is the incentive to work in this country? We have become a nation of people who expect, no demand, that the State looks after them. [It] Pays all their bills, provides them with homes, provides all sorts of social benefits."

gmisk · 22-10-2018 12:25pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The poster doesn’t imply Michael D is homophobic. It implies he believes Casey to be.

I thought that initially.....but then what the hell are the .exe and .mp3 extensions about?

Sexist.exe - so a runtime executable file for a programme....ah look maybe I am looking for some meaning in something that is just a load of crap.

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 12:27pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are 'Special Needs Children and Adults' more equal than you or me or is it simply a way to define difference? You have climbed up on a soapbox and cannot accept that you have nothing to define what threat Special Status is to your equality.

*And the traditional barb/abusive comment appears, as it always does, when people can't stand over what they write. :D

Are they defined by law as a special ethnic minority

Pathetic spurious comparison

TbL

Varik · 22-10-2018 12:28pm

gmisk wrote: »

I thought that initially.....but then what the hell are the .exe and .mp3 extensions about?

Both imply the same thing, they're just repeating the same old unoriginal stuff ad nauseam.

RWCNT · 22-10-2018 12:28pm

He's defo the most "After Hours" presidential candidate by a country mile.

McDermotX · 22-10-2018 12:29pm

Go'won Casey lad !

mcmoustache · 22-10-2018 12:29pm

Next, he'll be giving out about cyclists and there will be a fresh batch of the easily led creating boards accounts to post variations of "This man tells it like it is. He has my vote."

Dravokivich · 22-10-2018 12:31pm

I'm in fulltime employment. I can't even afford to be independant with welfare subsidies, let alone having to raise a kid. The issue isn't one of welfare being abundant, but why is the need for it so persistent.

MJohnston · 22-10-2018 12:32pm

RWCNT wrote: »

He's defo the most "After Hours" presidential candidate by a country mile.

Yes, indeed, this thread should be good for the oul ignore list

Kermit.de.frog · 22-10-2018 12:33pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Writing an open letter in the 'Sunday Independent', Mr Casey took aim at what he sees as Ireland becoming a "nation of people who expect - no, demand - that the State looks after them”

He's our Donald Trump. Let's elect him.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 12:34pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Are they defined by law as a special ethnic minority

Pathetic spurious comparison

TbL

You took issue with the word 'special' a while ago, not the legal definition.

So what does giving Special Ethnic Minority status take away from your equality?

Stop evading the question, is it that you cannot articulate it? Is it just a feeling?
If we are going to change it, surely you have to be able to define what is wrong with it.

blanch152 · 22-10-2018 12:34pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your ire should be directed at those facilitating that, the current and previous governments. Not hard to know what parties they are - FF FG, Lab, Greens and some independents. What have they done to mitigate these abuses, what have they done to resource the upholders of the laws that are clearly being broken by more than travellers, and why do people keep voting them in while hooraying the likes of a single issue powerless candidate like Casey.

Beggars belief really.

And indeed I am annoyed at those parties.

Unfortunately, the alternative is a whole heap of parties who only want to offer even more succour to the likes of Margaret Cash. She is already being advised by the likes of the PBP and some of the other loony lefties. As for Sinn Fein, they might mirror the assistance they offered Mairia Cahill and offer to have welfare spongers shot on behalf of the State, which is hardly the right thing, especially as they would be shooting their own voters.

Renua suggested they might tackle some of these problems, but they are up there with the DUP on social issues. So we are left back with hoping the main parties tackle this eventually.

It does beggar belief that the alternatives on offer are far far worse than the government on this particular issue. You don't have a suggestion as to which party might solve this, do you? There isn't any particular party you might suggest (I know you don't support or vote for any of them), is there?

ShaneC93 · 22-10-2018 12:38pm

Agree with him there.

I believe we need to follow an important part of the Dutch welfare system whereby the weekly amount payable for those on social welfare (that are not disabled, pensioners etc.) is at its highest for the first 2 Months then is decreased from the end of Year 1 to the end of Year 5 to the point that the figure payable at Year 6 is ~65% of the Year 1 figure. That model really helps in keeping those eligible to work out of long-term unemployment.

The Irish model of those on social welfare being better off that those on minimum wage just isn't sustainable. We saw it recently in the Budget when those on social welfare got an increase in payment of €260 a year when those on <€35K saw only an extra €20 and those on €70K saw only the same increase.

Government needs to focus on affordable housing more than social housing, needs to stop selling off social housing at a 60% discount / less than it costs to build replacement housing and on getting those eligible to work into employment. Then they can look at more tax-breaks for the workers, higher payouts / care for the disabled & elderly on welfare and better pay for some civil servants; the way it is now, some members of the Gardai and Defense Forces would effectively be better off on the dole than actually get paid for their roles.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 12:42pm

blanch152 wrote: »

And indeed I am annoyed at those parties.

Unfortunately, the alternative is a whole heap of parties who only want to offer even more succour to the likes of Margaret Cash. She is already being advised by the likes of the PBP and some of the other loony lefties. As for Sinn Fein, they might mirror the assistance they offered Mairia Cahill and offer to have welfare spongers shot on behalf of the State, which is hardly the right thing, especially as they would be shooting their own voters.

Renua suggested they might tackle some of these problems, but they are up there with the DUP on social issues. So we are left back with hoping the main parties tackle this eventually.

It does beggar belief that the alternatives on offer are far far worse than the government on this particular issue. You don't have a suggestion as to which party might solve this, do you? There isn't any particular party you might suggest (I know you don't support or vote for any of them), is there?

Ok, you don't like the alternatives, can you point to what you have contributed to these forums on how the current government can reform and resource the Gardai, how they can make a fairer and better welfare system or how they can overhaul and change the HSE?
Knowing your posting history as well as I do, the majority of your posts support the government in what they are doing.

Personally I don't think any one party has all the solutions and never will. I am on record as being critical of the current government for getting so much abjectly wrong though and some stuff right.

blanch152 · 22-10-2018 12:42pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can we talk about the welfare dependency of working families whose wage isn't sufficient to support them?
A minimum wage which is less than the acknowledged living wage.
Employers paying people lass than they can live on.

Can we discuss how welfare supports like Family Income Supplement is subsiding employers?

Of course we can, but the biggest question is how can a small country on the western edge of Europe support some of the highest social welfare rates in the world?

Another biggie is how can a small country on the western edge of Europe with one of the youngest populations and lowest unemployment rates spend so much money as a percentage of public spending on social welfare?

A third one is why are we spending such a high percentage of public spending on social welfare when there is so much infrastructural spending required in public transport, climate change mitigation and third level education?

A fourth one is why do we support children through cash on child benefit, which is drank and injected by a large minority and which is spent on skiing trips and other holidays by another large minority when we could be providing subsidised childcare for parents who actually work or study, we could be providing support in school classes for children with special needs, we could be providing respite support for parents, we could be funding third-level education etc. No, we just hand the money over. Taxing it won't solve that problem.

They are the real big questions. We have created a welfare dependency and an entitlement culture by refusing to taper off social welfare payments, by handing out the largest child benefit cash payments in Europe, by having some of the highest rates in the world etc.

Those are the big questions. The ones you raise can get sorted after that, because we will have the ability to lower tax rates on those working families.

Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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