6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

randomname2005 · 07-02-2019 3:55pm

sanjose1 wrote: »

Roux put in 3 tackles agast England, Lawes put in three times as many in less time, he just aint dynamic enough for a top modern lock

What were the possession stats for that time period?

Faugheen · 07-02-2019 3:56pm

sanjose1 wrote: »

Roux put in 3 tackles agast England, Lawes put in three times as many in less time, he just aint dynamic enough for a top modern lock

2 of those 3 tackles he won the collision, which is a key point you’re leaving out. He also hit a lot of rucks. Are you telling me you’re basing work rate on the number of tackles he makes?

Do you suggest we have no line out caller against Scotland as well?

When has Roux played a bad game for Ireland?

Buer · 07-02-2019 3:56pm

sanjose1 wrote: »

Roux put in 3 tackles agast England, Lawes put in three times as many in less time, he just aint dynamic enough for a top modern lock

It's almost as if Ireland had the vast majority of possession in that period.

If you check the attacking stats for Lawes i.e. passes, carries, metres made, offloads etc. you'll see they're all the same....zero. In 28 minutes on the field he never touched the ball once. He was doing nothing but defending.

aloooof · 07-02-2019 3:59pm

sanjose1 wrote: »

Roux put in 3 tackles agast England, Lawes put in three times as many in less time, he just aint dynamic enough for a top modern lock

This is exactly the argument Neil Francis has today. Did you just read that and regurgitate it?

johnnyskeleton · 07-02-2019 4:01pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Best has proven himself repeatedly. Excellent display against NZ only a couple of months ago and he was far from the only one who struggled on Saturday. Not saying he's a certainty to start in the World Cup but he's more than enough credit in the bank to retain his place this week.

I don't think it is any criticism of Best to say that Cronin is simply playing consistently well for Leinster so is worth starting?

I'm also looking forward to seeing Quinn Roux fill in for Toner!

Zzippy · 07-02-2019 4:03pm

Roux is a workhorse, it's why Joe likes him and it's why he gets into Ireland squads. He doesn't make big runs like Ryan. He doesn't overpower tacklers like Henderson/Dillane. Ask him to clear ruck ball and he'll do it all day long. He's solid in the lineout and steals the odd opposition throw. He orchestrates and gets mauls moving forward. He does the grunt work around rucks and mauls, but because he isn't flashy like Ryan/Hendo he is considered not good enough. Fair enough, those guys are ahead of him in the pecking order, but he's a solid, dependable backup option that won't cost you a game.

Eod100 · 07-02-2019 4:04pm

Think it's a great sign of Irish squad depth when we're debating 2nd choice players

Squidgy Black · 07-02-2019 4:06pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Roux is a workhorse, it's why Joe likes him and it's why he gets into Ireland squads. He doesn't make big runs like Ryan. He doesn't overpower tacklers like Henderson/Dillane. Ask him to clear ruck ball and he'll do it all day long. He's solid in the lineout and steals the odd opposition throw. He orchestrates and gets mauls moving forward. He does the grunt work around rucks and mauls, but because he isn't flashy like Ryan/Hendo he is considered not good enough. Fair enough, those guys are ahead of him in the pecking order, but he's a solid, dependable backup option that won't cost you a game.

To add to this, Roux is probably the closest Toner replacement we have in terms of work rate and lineout (although he's not as good due to the fact Toner is a giraffe). We all know how Joe likes to stick to his game plans, and the Ryan/Toner combo is one we've had a lot of success with at provincial and international level.

reg114 · 07-02-2019 4:09pm

Former Former wrote: »

He has a dead leg. He trained earlier in the week.

Yes and now he's ruled out of yet another game... its happening too often for comfort.

Former Former · 07-02-2019 4:11pm

The "well, Joe likes Roux" argument is somewhat undermined by the fact that he was left out of the squad to begin with. His subsequent elevation through the ranks is due to his lineout calling and bulk for the tighthead side, neither of which Dillane provides. I'm not sure who else we have that fits the bill. Treadwell?

FWIW I'd pick him over Dillane every day of the week but Roux is a big unknown at this level.

Faugheen · 07-02-2019 4:18pm

Former Former wrote: »

The "well, Joe likes Roux" argument is somewhat undermined by the fact that he was left out of the squad to begin with. His subsequent elevation through the ranks is due to his lineout calling and bulk for the tighthead side, neither of which Dillane provides. I'm not sure who else we have that fits the bill. Treadwell?

FWIW I'd pick him over Dillane every day of the week but Roux is a big unknown at this level.

It’s because of the player that was injured. If Ryan wasn’t playing rather than Toner, then Dillane would have started this game.

Quint2010 · 07-02-2019 4:20pm

For me Farrell is a better bet at 13 than Henshaw would have been. Still a conservative selection tho.

Annabella1 · 07-02-2019 4:46pm

So happy Kearney back
Back 3 look much more solid
Hopefully has shaken off rustiness

Former Former · 07-02-2019 4:48pm

Faugheen wrote: »

It’s because of the player that was injured. If Ryan wasn’t playing rather than Toner, then Dillane would have started this game.

??

Isn't that exactly what I said?

swiwi_ · 07-02-2019 4:49pm

If you go to LiveLeak you can see Robbie Henshaw being fed to the sharks.

Zzippy · 07-02-2019 5:10pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

For me Farrell is a better bet at 13 than Henshaw would have been. Still a conservative selection tho.

Not in a million years. Henshaw is on a par with Aki for 12 and just behind Ringrose for 13. Then a big gap to Farrell who isn't far ahead of his namesake. In fact I think Chris Farrell would be a better 12 than 13. He's more of a power runner suited to inside centre IMO.

aloooof · 07-02-2019 5:14pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Not in a million years. Henshaw is on a par with Aki for 12 and just behind Ringrose for 13. Then a big gap to Farrell who isn't far ahead of his namesake. In fact I think Chris Farrell would be a better 12 than 13. He's more of a power runner suited to inside centre IMO.

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and it makes a lot of sense to me. But I think Drico was on a podcast recently and mentioned he's definitely / solely a 13 so there's obviously something I'm missing in this regard?

Zzippy · 07-02-2019 5:16pm

aloooof wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times, and it makes a lot of sense to me. But I think Drico was on a podcast recently and mentioned he's definitely / solely a 13 so there's obviously something I'm missing in this regard?

I don't see it. I know he plays 13 for Munster, but he doesn't play like most 13s, he trucks it up and uses power to make gains, he doesn't use footwork to make a break, and he doesn't distribute a lot either. For me Tom Farrell is more in the 13 mould, spots a gap and seems to find space better. Certainly he has outplayed CF when they've come up against each other.

arsebiscuits1 · 07-02-2019 5:38pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't see it. I know he plays 13 for Munster, but he doesn't play like most 13s, he trucks it up and uses power to make gains, he doesn't use footwork to make a break, and he doesn't distribute a lot either. For me Tom Farrell is more in the 13 mould, spots a gap and seems to find space better. Certainly he has outplayed CF when they've come up against each other.

Jackman had an explanation for it on some interview a while back based on his time at Grenoble.

Basically he's a very good 12 because he's so physical. But what sets him apart at 13 is there is slightly more room down that channel where he really prospers. But his distribution is fantastic so he can draw defenders and release players into space a lot more effectively.

Pudsy33 · 07-02-2019 5:40pm

If Ryan was the one injured I suspect we'd be seeing a Dillane Toner partnership this weekend. Roux is simply a more like for like replacement for Toner. I suspect he'll go well.

Perifect · 07-02-2019 5:49pm

It's just a real pity that Henderson and Beirne are out. We need to weigh up what they can bring and compare it with Toner. Lineouts are an issue which pushes Toner forward in the pecking order but the others add so much in other areas. Maybe we change it depending on opposition but I'd favour Henderson starting with Beirne on the bench. It's a really tight call that one. I wouldn't have Toner on the bench as the other two are better impact players.

troyzer · 07-02-2019 5:52pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't see it. I know he plays 13 for Munster, but he doesn't play like most 13s, he trucks it up and uses power to make gains, he doesn't use footwork to make a break, and he doesn't distribute a lot either. For me Tom Farrell is more in the 13 mould, spots a gap and seems to find space better. Certainly he has outplayed CF when they've come up against each other.

Jackman had an explanation for it on some interview a while back based on his time at Grenoble.

Basically he's a very good 12 because he's so physical. But what sets him apart at 13 is there is slightly more room down that channel where he really prospers. But his distribution is fantastic so he can draw defenders and release players into space a lot more effectively.

That's it I imagine. He has all of the skills of 12 but he has that extra spark which means he can play 13. You don't put a battering ram in the channel where all of the battering rams are if you can put him in a channel where he's the only battering ram but isn't caught out by lack of fundamentals.

bob mcbob · 07-02-2019 5:54pm

Weather forecast for the game on Saturday.

I don't think it is going to be a day for Garryowens.

Edinburgh
Yellow warning of wind

From
00:15 GMT on Sat 9 February
To
15:00 GMT on Sat 9 February

A spell of strong winds will push from west to east through the day, bringing potential travel disruption.

Perifect · 07-02-2019 5:55pm

bob mcbob wrote: »

Weather forecast for the game on Saturday.

I don't think it is going to be a day for Garryowens.

Edinburgh
Yellow warning of wind

From
00:15 GMT on Sat 9 February
To
15:00 GMT on Sat 9 February

A spell of strong winds will push from west to east through the day, bringing potential travel disruption.

Unfortunately, I think it more than likely means a day for garryowens and not for expansive rugby.

clsmooth · 07-02-2019 6:03pm

Perifect wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think it more than likely means a day for garryowens and not for expansive rugby.

Which should suit us down to the ground

Perifect · 07-02-2019 6:05pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Which should suit us down to the ground

If we're sticking to the same old game plan. We need to mix it up!

leakyboots · 07-02-2019 6:09pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't see it. I know he plays 13 for Munster, but he doesn't play like most 13s, he trucks it up and uses power to make gains, he doesn't use footwork to make a break, and he doesn't distribute a lot either. For me Tom Farrell is more in the 13 mould, spots a gap and seems to find space better. Certainly he has outplayed CF when they've come up against each other.

Chris Farrell is most definitely a distributor when he wants to, well able to throw skip passes out to the wing. He's got great hands.

How many times have CF and TF faced each other?

I think people are forgetting how impressive CF was in his last outing for us, MOTM if I remember?

Edit: I think he's the right call for 13 behind Ringrose.

bob mcbob · 07-02-2019 6:11pm

Perifect wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think it more than likely means a day for garryowens and not for expansive rugby.

You think so?
Murray's skill with these is the chaser arrives at the same time as the ball.

With the wind it is going to be very difficult to judge.

Overcook it and it gives Hogg counterattack opportunities.
Undercook it and the chaser is static with Scottish backs attacking him.

lawred2 · 07-02-2019 6:15pm

Perifect wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think it more than likely means a day for garryowens and not for expansive rugby.

Wind like that makes kicking to the sky a lottery.

Not exactly something that would excite Jo.

Larbre34 · 07-02-2019 6:17pm

I'd have had Ruddock on the bench for this one all day long.

6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

Comments