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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)
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J Mysterio wrote: »I wonder should Ireland push to secure some of these car manufacturing jobs?
We have been doing well with banking and services but the manufacturing jobs seem to pass us by. They would be a great boon to, say the midlands.
Presume a country like Poland might get some of the action.
I'm not sure if it would be a net benefit.
It could have big implications on VRT, for one.
Let's say you charge the VRT on the parts, then the manufacturer will have to pay the VRT on all and any parts brought in from outside Ireland and then seek a refund were they to sell the completed car outside Ireland.
Similarly, if they were to partially build the car in Ireland and then ship it somewhere else for eventual completion. They're paying VRT on parts, then seeking a refund upon export, possibly paying VRT once more if an Irish person ultimately buys the finished product. Lots of admin fees there!
Or if you charge the VRT on the fully finished car?
Again, the manufacturer will have to pay VRT on the completed car upon assembly here and then seek a refund should they export the car outside Ireland to the end user.
It could also create an unintended competitive advantage - let's say Ford set up shop here and can assemble a car here from parts brought in from outside Ireland - they don't pay VRT on the parts, only on the finished product.
They can import the parts and assemble the car cheaper - ultimately meaning they can sell it in Ireland cheaper, or offer a comparatively better spec product - than, say, Hyundai can, because Hyundai are paying VRT on the fully finished product, including all and any parts. This would likely be illegal.
It's for this reason VRT is often argued as the reason why we often see a "paddy spec" option for cars, which sits below the usual base entry model of the UK equivalent vehicle.
Anyway, I digress somewhat
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correct horse battery staple wrote: »https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ford-motor/ford-told-britains-may-it-is-preparing-alternative-production-sites-the-times-idUKKCN1Q12SK
Ford has plants in {Dagenham, Bridgend, Dunton, Halewood} all of which voted to leave. Dagenham 62%
Turkeys voting for xmas...
Well almost 40% of turkeys did not vote for Christmas
But yeah I always think about this with Sunderland and Brexit. How many Nissan workers and their families would have voted Leave?0 -
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This picture demonstrates in ways words cannot how the UK got the negotiations started off (the UK is on the right hand side of the table):
If the EU negotiating team came back to the EU27 with a deal so bad that it caused widespread disgust, then the EU27 would swiftly sack the entire negotiating team and take a long swift hard collective look at themselves to figure out how they made such an embarrassing error. They would then re-select a negotiating team who were on no uncertain terms what the collective wishes of the EU27 were. And if the UK said "Well, if you want to get some further leeway from us, we need to see some leeway on your side" then we'd accept that as a cost of our mistake.
Whereas the UK negotiating team came back with a deal so bad it caused, not just widespread disgust, but widespread outrage, within the UK parliament. But rather than UK parliament saying, wow the UK side have really goofed up here, they all collectively and universally rounded on the EU and have since been blaming the EU entirely for the UK getting (what they deem to be) such a bad deal!!! And when the EU offered to give them some leeway in return for the UK giving some equal leeway back, the UK not only didn't offer any leeway, but they doubled down on their "red lines" instead!!!
And none of the above even takes account of the fact that it's the UK that is leaving.
You don't get the upper-hand when you decide to walk away from something.
You don't get to selectively pick what you can and can't take away with you.
You don't call the other side horrible names and somehow expect that it will convince them to give you what you want.
And the frustration that this BS causes is why EU leaders feel justified in saying that those who led the UK down this path without a plan will have a special place in Hell reserved for them.0 -
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I'm not sure if it would be a net benefit.
It could have big implications on VRT, for one.
Let's say you charge the VRT on the parts, then the manufacturer will have to pay the VRT on all and any parts brought in from outside Ireland and then seek a refund were they to sell the completed car outside Ireland.
Similarly, if they were to partially build the car in Ireland and then ship it somewhere else for eventual completion. They're paying VRT on parts, then seeking a refund upon export, possibly paying VRT once more if an Irish person ultimately buys the finished product. Lots of admin fees there!
Or if you charge the VRT on the fully finished car?
Again, the manufacturer will have to pay VRT on the completed car upon assembly here and then seek a refund should they export the car outside Ireland to the end user.
It could also create an unintended competitive advantage - let's say Ford set up shop here and can assemble a car here from parts brought in from outside Ireland - they don't pay VRT on the parts, only on the finished product.
They can import the parts and assemble the car cheaper - ultimately meaning they can sell it in Ireland cheaper, or offer a comparatively better spec product - than, say, Hyundai can, because Hyundai are paying VRT on the fully finished product, including all and any parts. This would likely be illegal.
It's for this reason VRT is often argued as the reason why we often see a "paddy spec" option for cars, which sits below the usual base entry model of the UK equivalent vehicle.
Anyway, I digress somewhat
You totally misunderstand VRT. It's charged at first registration in Ireland only which cars manufactured for export are not
And it's the total value of the car - not parts. That higher spec cars have higher VRT is due to a higher price
The Netherlands has a harsher registration tax and has car manufacturing. It has no impacts whatsoever0 -
VRT is a tax payable when purchasing a new car. The manufacturer does not pay VRT on their produce. It is not a tax on exports or parts.I'm not sure if it would be a net benefit.
It could have big implications on VRT, for one.
Let's say you charge the VRT on the parts, then the manufacturer will have to pay the VRT on all and any parts brought in from outside Ireland and then seek a refund were they to sell the completed car outside Ireland.
Similarly, if they were to partially build the car in Ireland and then ship it somewhere else for eventual completion. They're paying VRT on parts, then seeking a refund upon export, possibly paying VRT once more if an Irish person ultimately buys the finished product. Lots of admin fees there!
Or if you charge the VRT on the fully finished car?
Again, the manufacturer will have to pay VRT on the completed car upon assembly here and then seek a refund should they export the car outside Ireland to the end user.
It could also create an unintended competitive advantage - let's say Ford set up shop here and can assemble a car here from parts brought in from outside Ireland - they don't pay VRT on the parts, only on the finished product.
They can import the parts and assemble the car cheaper - ultimately meaning they can sell it in Ireland cheaper, or offer a comparatively better spec product - than, say, Hyundai can, because Hyundai are paying VRT on the fully finished product, including all and any parts. This would likely be illegal.
It's for this reason VRT is often argued as the reason why we often see a "paddy spec" option for cars, which sits below the usual base entry model of the UK equivalent vehicle.
Anyway, I digress somewhat0 -
Interesting, thanks.You totally misunderstand VRT. It's charged at first registration in Ireland only which cars manufactured for export are not
And it's the total value of the car - not parts. That higher spec cars have higher VRT is due to a higher price
The Netherlands has a harsher registration tax and has car manufacturing. It has no impacts whatsoever
I stand corrected 0 -
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