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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #9182
    nemefuria
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭nemefuria


    If there is zero tariffs on beef going from Ireland into NI, wouldn't WTO Most Favoured Nation rule kick in so Brazil can demand its beef be allowed into NI tariff-free? Or could the temporary nature of the arrangement circumvent MFN?


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    #9183
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Keyzer wrote: »
    I honestly feel sympathy for May - she inherited this bag of crap from Cameron. Another arrogant politician so out of touch with reality that he had the foolishness to start this whole thing.
    Do not feel sorry for her. She took Cameron's bag of crap and turned into a permanent sack of crap. She divided the country even further through her behaviour, she emboldened the Brexiteers and has turned a bad mess that was possibly resolvable through consensus building across the country and across parties to one that looks impossible to resolve in the short and maybe even medium term. If she had even just stepped down a year ago it would have given some opportunity for a real leader to have a shot at it but instead she dug deeper making the sack of crap even stinkier.


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    #9184
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Peregrinus wrote:
    Nope. You can transport goods through the EU to a third country without paying EU tariffs. (You can do this in most countries; long-distance international trade would be severly hampered if you had to pay tariffs in every country through which you passed.)

    Yes, I know how trade works but I'd be surprised if the UK would turn a blind eye to sealed Chinese containers being opened in Newry, re-branded and shipped to Britain. (The WTO wouldn't be happy about it either.)


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    #9185
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,485 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The UK is ****ed and they waste minutes talking about a hair cut.

    TBF, everything he says is patently nonsense so why not talk about something he does actually understand.


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    #9186
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    All nations get this treatment. Where's the breach of the MFN rule?

    It's a side deal with Ireland. By your logic South Africa could unilaterally not man is border with Namibia. This isn't the case. The UK have applied a 0 % tariff to trade with Ireland.


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    #9187
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    First Up wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if the UK .......

    Brexit and the UK have long since disassociated themselves from the word 'surprised'!


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    #9188
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,485 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    First Up wrote: »
    Yes, I know how trade works but I'd be surprised if the UK would turn a blind eye to sealed Chinese containers being opened in Newry, re-branded and shipped to Britain. (The WTO wouldn't be happy about it either.)

    But they just released a report saying that is exactly what they are planning to do.

    If they won't be checking anything at the border, then how can they possibly know?


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    #9189
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    LeinsterDub wrote:
    It's a side deal with Ireland. By your logic South Africa could unilaterally not man is border with Namibia. This isn't the case. The UK have applied a 0 % tariff to trade with Ireland.


    Correct and under WTO rules, a zero tariff within Ireland counts as zero tariff bewteen the EU and UK.


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    #9190
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    axer wrote: »
    Do not feel sorry for her. She took Cameron's bag of crap and turned into a permanent sack of crap. She divided the country even further through her behaviour, she emboldened the Brexiteers and has turned a bad mess that was possibly resolvable through consensus building across the country and across parties to one that looks impossible to resolve in the short and maybe even medium term. If she had even just stepped down a year ago it would have given some opportunity for a real leader to have a shot at it but instead she dug deeper making the sack of crap even stinkier.

    any suggestions?


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    #9191
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    First Up wrote: »
    Correct and under WTO rules, a zero tariff within Ireland counts as zero tariff bewteen the EU and UK.

    and the ROTW no?


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    #9192
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    The vote tomorrow to see if they should ask for an extension may be pointless as Barnier has said [paraphrase] "Why extend the negotiations? It's over.".


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    #9193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://twitter.com/mattfrei/status/1105763717587914753

    EU not favourable for an extension so British politicians can merely continue to squabble about all this.


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    #9194
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Leroy42 wrote:
    If they won't be checking anything at the border, then how can they possibly know?


    Watching truckloads of sealed containers heading up the M1 and being unloaded at a big warehouse in Newry might give them a clue. They are not blind you know - and neither is the EU or WTO.


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    #9195
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Keyzer wrote: »
    I honestly feel sympathy for May - she inherited this bag of crap from Cameron.


    True, but then she immediately set it on fire and sat on it, which kind of limits my sympathy for her.


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    #9196
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    lawred2 wrote:
    and the ROTW no?

    By extension, yes.


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    #9197
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    nemefuria wrote: »
    If there is zero tariffs on beef going from Ireland into NI, wouldn't WTO Most Favoured Nation rule kick in so Brazil can demand its beef be allowed into NI tariff-free? Or could the temporary nature of the arrangement circumvent MFN?
    Brazilian beef will be allowed in tariff-free, provided it is imported across the land border with Ireland.


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    #9198
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Peregrinus wrote:
    Brazilian beef will be allowed in tariff-free, provided it is imported across the land border with Ireland.


    After it has paid EU import tariffs and passed EU inspection on arrival in Ireland.


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    #9199
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    But they just released a report saying that is exactly what they are planning to do.

    If they won't be checking anything at the border, then how can they possibly know?

    This is essentially what happens at the moment , Illegality is monitored by a roving customs so I imagine that their presence would be stepped up particularly on the Irish sea which could become the de facto border , Logistics would limit the amount of trade possible.


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    #9200
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    First Up wrote: »
    Watching truckloads of sealed containers heading up the M1 and being unloaded at a big warehouse in Newry might give them a clue. They are not blind you know - and neither is the EU or WTO.

    What about trucks heading over one of the other 299 crossings?

    Will those watching be relying on CCTV cameras that can be protected from the work of good republicans?


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    #9201
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    First Up wrote: »
    Yes, I know how trade works but I'd be surprised if the UK would turn a blind eye to sealed Chinese containers being opened in Newry, re-branded and shipped to Britain. (The WTO wouldn't be happy about it either.)
    None of this would be necessary. The Chinese goods will be lawfully imported into the UK across the Irish border. Because they have been imported across the Irish border, no tariffs apply, so there is no need for concealment, evasion, relabeling, etc; this will be entirely legit. The question of turning a "blind eye" to it won't arise; there is nothing improper going on.


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    #9202
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What about trucks heading over one of the other 299 crossings?

    Will those watching be relying on CCTV cameras that can be protected from the work of good republicans?

    You must be in triple figures with your 'good republicans' jibe. Must be frustrating not getting the bites you would have been hoping for.


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    #9203
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Russman wrote: »
    But, in terms of the optics of it at least, won't it then appear that its Ireland who is "putting up" a border ? I know most people will be sensible enough to know the truth of the matter, but the UK will be able to claim its the EU/Irl who want a border bla, bla, bla.......


    If they crash out, it is no longer our problem who the gutter press in the UK blame for stuff, anymore than we care about what Fox News says about the EU in America. Here is the number of an office in Brussels where someone is paid to care about that.


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    #9204
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    It's a side deal with Ireland. By your logic South Africa could unilaterally not man is border with Namibia. This isn't the case. The UK have applied a 0 % tariff to trade with Ireland.
    It's not a side deal with Ireland; it's a unilateral measure adopted by the UK. And it's not a 0% tariff to trade with Ireland; it's a 0% tariff to trade with the whole world, provided that trade is routed across the UK's border in NI.

    An Irish exporter and a Chinese exporter will get exactly the same treatment. If they send their goods to Liverpool, a tariff will be charged. But if they send them to Newry (entering across the land border) no tariff will be charged.


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    #9205
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    First Up wrote: »
    Correct and under WTO rules, a zero tariff within Ireland counts as zero tariff bewteen the EU and UK.
    It's not a zero tariff "within Ireland"; its a zero tariff on all goods crossing the border from Ireland to Northern Ireland. The zero tariff applies regardless of the origin of the goods.


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    #9206
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What about trucks heading over one of the other 299 crossings?

    Will those watching be relying on CCTV cameras that can be protected from the work of good republicans?

    One more jibe and you're getting a ban.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9207
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    First Up wrote: »
    After it has paid EU import tariffs and passed EU inspection on arrival in Ireland.
    Are we going around in circles here? I've already pointed out, and you have already accepted, that goods can be transported through the EU without paying EU tariffs or meeting EU market requirements.


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    #9208
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    It's not a zero tariff "within Ireland"; its a zero tariff on all goods crossing the border from Ireland to Northern Ireland. The zero tariff applies regardless of the origin of the goods.

    The M1 could get very busy then. This could be a boom time for Irish logistics, importers and haulage firms.


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    #9209
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    lawred2 wrote: »
    This could be a boom time for Irish logistics, importers and haulage firms.


    Except the NI based ones, who don't have licenses to operate in the EU, they are going out of business.


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    #9210
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,283 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Except the NI based ones, who don't have licenses to operate in the EU, they are going out of business.

    Better start advocating for a border poll then


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    #9211
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,092 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The M1 could get very busy then. This could be a boom time for Irish logistics, importers and haulage firms.
    This is actually going to be the limiting factor; there's limited capacity at Irish (and NI) ports and on roads, etc, and a finite amount of trucks, ships and railway cars. The proposed arrangement creates huge incentives for UK importers to reroute their supplies through Ireland and NI, but they'll be competing for limited logistical capacity. If this was going to be a long-term arrangement it would be profitable to invest to build up logistical capacity hugely, but the UK have only announced it for 12 months (and frankly I doubt if it is sustainable even for that long).


This discussion has been closed.
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