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Guess what Mad_Lad got this time?

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    #722
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Rex appears very useful but I thought the original leaf was all the car anyone could ever need?


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    #723
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mickdw wrote: »
    Rex appears very useful but I thought the original leaf was all the car anyone could ever need?

    I don't remember saying the Leaf was all the EV anyone would ever need ?


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    #724
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickdw wrote: »
    Rex appears very useful but I thought the original leaf was all the car anyone could ever need?

    Depending on the persons user Habbits it could be more than needed.

    Me personally, I dont like the REX but it’s totally personal. If I was doing mad lads trip with the family, I’d do it in our ICE as I couldn’t be bothered dealing with public charge points.

    On my own, I’d probably do it in the BEV as if I have to hang around for a charge then it’s only me that’s bored.


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    #725
    dashoonage
    Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    Why do people not like the rex , is it carrying round the engine ?


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    #726
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Sounds great.

    Oh how I want......


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    #727
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    Depending on the persons user Habbits it could be more than needed.

    Me personally, I dont like the REX but it’s totally personal. If I was doing mad lads trip with the family, I’d do it in our ICE as I couldn’t be bothered dealing with public charge points.

    On my own, I’d probably do it in the BEV as if I have to hang around for a charge then it’s only me that’s bored.

    Do you have a BEV, ICE and Rex?


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    #728
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    dashoonage wrote: »
    Why do people not like the rex , is it carrying round the engine ?

    It's dead weight, but nowhere near the dead weight of the 1.4L four cylinder actual car engine in the Ampera. I've not driven a Rex but in terms of dead weight I would have thought a 600cc 2 cylinder moped engine is preferable. Lighter anyway, even if it doesn't have the same range on gas.


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    #729
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    n97 mini wrote: »
    It's dead weight, but nowhere near the dead weight of the 1.4L four cylinder actual car engine in the Ampera. I've not driven a Rex but in terms of dead weight I would have thought a 600cc 2 cylinder moped engine is preferable. Lighter anyway, even if it doesn't have the same range on gas.

    How is it dead weight if the i3 is literally the lightest EV you can buy at 1300kg, the rex is like 100kg or so

    If BMW put this tech in to a 3 series it would have been incredibly successful, but they didn't want that and put into that hideous i3 ( no offence )

    Same as Honda and the Clarity, put that tech in the hatchback Civic and see the demand then, instead of that ugly Clarity


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    #730
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Mike9832 wrote: »

    How is it dead weight if the i3 is literally the lightest EV you can buy at 1300kg, the rex is like 100kg or so
    Dead weight is exactly that. It's like having a petrol generator that's rarely used in the boot that you can't take out. But that's the nature of PHEVs.

    Note I did say I think a 600cc moped engine is preferable to an actual fully blown car engine when it comes to hauling around dead weight.


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    #731
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Dead weight is exactly that. It's like having a petrol generator that's rarely used in the boot that you can't take out. But that's the nature of PHEVs.

    Note I did say I think a 600cc moped engine is preferable to an actual fully blown car engine when it comes to hauling around dead weight.

    Its hardly dead weight when it serves a purpose and gives a 100km of range

    Just goes to show how crap batteries are

    A generator, exhaust system, petrol tank etc and all other ice bits at just over 100kg gives about the same the range as 100kg of batteries

    Sure you need about 1000kg battery pack to match the range of a small diesel, now thats dead weight


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    #732
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    dashoonage wrote: »
    Why do people not like the rex , is it carrying round the engine ?

    I went EV to not use ICE at all where possible.
    I'm going all in with EV.

    n97 mini wrote: »
    Do you have a BEV, ICE and Rex?

    I have a BEV.
    Wife has ICE.


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    #733
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I had the choice to get BEV i3 and use the Outlander like I did with the Leaf , use the diesel on long trips but why bother ? I can use the i3 to go wherever I want when I want.

    I work shift and Partner works and I have plenty of days off when I can get in the car on a nice day and take my two Sons and not have to worry about charging infrastructure and don't have access to the outlander.

    Why would I restrict myself so much again this time around ?

    I really didn't care that the Rex will be used rarely but when I do it gets used a lot.

    Yes I could hang around and wait 1 hr for a leaf 40 to charge and then have to wait to charge myself or I could have to wait for 2 x Leaf 40 to charge with potential 2 hrs wait and 30 mins for myself, by all means if that's what someone wants to avoid burning some petrol and carrying around a generator then go right ahead, it isn't however what I would consider acceptable or fun.

    As I said , even if I had to have the Kona I'd still be facing the same issues, the infrastructure is absolute crap. Yes I'd have more EV range but the more I think about it I could see the Rex a bit like the Kona, it gives me more range but still face the same problems in regard to infrastructure if I want to charge only the Rex eliminates those issues.

    Yes some day we'll have a good infrastructure but this is almost May now and no sign of any new ESB chargers and I'm 1.5 years into the i3 PCP, yeah there have been upgrades but still one charger.

    Only for the Obama Plaza charger was free I would have had to use the Rex from Newcastle all the way to Carlow or I could have added serious time to my trip.

    A kona is great but it takes longer to charge.

    I think I could be hanging onto the Rex for some time after the PCP, unless there's a big change in infrastructure in 1.5 years. I would want a faster charging EV too, 50 Kw is old school now.

    Either way, I am just happy to be free of the public network issues until things improve, range, recharge times and the number of chargers available.

    People may criticise the Rex, mainly BEV owners and those who don't own it but for someone who did the whole BEV thing for 3 years and 85,000 kms it's just brilliant !


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    #734
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,201 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I would prefer to be full EV, but it just isn't possible with the current infrastructure.

    2 years time with a better eCars network plus Ionity and others in place and I might switch out again.


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    #735
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I don't think anybody is asking you to justify your decision for the REX. Its all personal. You get the car to suit your needs, whether that be EV, ICE, PHEV etc

    There's nothing wrong with any decision IMO

    I'm lucky that I have work and home charging so that I am always at 100% and i'm Dublin based for work and living. So any day of the week I can throw the kids in the car and be in any resort local enough and home without charging (Howth, Beaches, Shopping etc)

    I can cover house to Bray and back without charging and/or similar locations.

    The only downside is that we tend to take my i3 at the weekends too so its my car that gets the mileage :(


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    #736
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My car gets the mode mileage too which will likely see me a good bit over my PCP but I won't be handing it back so that's irrelevant but too high and it could effect any value over the GFMV. Though at this rate chances are I'll be keeping it.

    Battery is still at 100% capacity so looking good so far.


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    #737
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    My car gets the mode mileage too which will likely see me a good bit over my PCP but I won't be handing it back so that's irrelevant but too high and it could effect any value over the GFMV. Though at this rate chances are I'll be keeping it.

    Battery is still at 100% capacity so looking good so far.

    I need to figure out how to check battery capacity.


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    #738
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    kceire wrote: »
    I need to figure out how to check battery capacity.

    Drive from 100% until it stops.. thats your battery capacity! :)
    And if you trust Bjorn, thats how he does it!

    I dont trust these Torque app readings that say the batteries are still at 100% after 2,3,4 years.... its not technically possible for a Li-ion to have no degradation in that time period so it could be that the BMS is just not reporting it gradually, but in chunks... who knows.... range is the true determinent of the capacity.... everything else is a guesstimate.

    Its a bit like the Leaf showing 12 bars until all of a sudden it goes to 11 bars and now you have 85% capacity.... in reality you didnt lose 15% overnight, it happened gradually and we just happen to know that because we have LeafSpy which shows it.... the other EV's could, for all we know, just be reporting "12 bars=100%" but in fact under the hood it could be down 5,10, 15%... the thing is, we dont know.... range is what people should look at, imo.


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    #739
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    KCross wrote: »
    Drive from 100% until it stops.. thats your battery capacity! :)


    I done that in the Leaf :)
    Don't fancy doing it again!


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    #740
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The BMS is a bit more sophisticated it can also measure internal resistance which gives a better overall indication of battery health. As the battery ages internal resistance increases.

    Here's how to check the i3.

    https://bmwi3owner.com/2016/01/secrets/


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    #741
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The BMS is a bit more sophisticated it can also measure internal resistance which gives a better overall indication of battery health. As the battery ages internal resistance increases.

    Yes and No. You need to run it down to "draw out" the weak cells and get the BMS to trip turtle mode and thats your true capacity. Any readings on the dash need to be taken with a pinch of salt.


    I'll put it to you this way.... I could claim my 4yr old Leaf is at 100% because thats what the dash is telling me... 12 bars. We both know its not 100% but I can claim 100% becuase I have 12 bars.

    Every Ioniq owner claims they are at 100% too but after 2yrs I dont believe it... common sense would tell you its not at 100%.... 100% is just too perfect a number for it to be the real value.... why havent any of them gone to 99% yet... you'd think at least one would have?! 100% is not real, imo.


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    #742
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KCross wrote: »
    Yes and No. You need to run it down to "draw out" the weak cells and get the BMS to trip turtle mode and thats your true capacity. Any readings on the dash need to be taken with a pinch of salt.


    I'll put it to you this way.... I could claim my 4yr old Leaf is at 100% because thats what the dash is telling me... 12 bars. We both know its not 100% but I can claim 100% becuase I have 12 bars.

    Every Ioniq owner claims they are at 100% too but after 2yrs I dont believe it... common sense would tell you its not at 100%.... 100% is just too perfect a number for it to be the real value.... why havent any of them gone to 99% yet... you'd think at least one would have?! 100% is not real, imo.

    No the leaf does not report 100% capacity at 12 bars, it reports up to 100% but this could be in reality 85-100% as the manual states.

    leaf spy won't be 100% but it's better than the dash, a lot, so is the i3 "hidden" menu.

    Yes the weaker cells become known at low soc and at this point when low battery comes on it's better to be very easy in the throttle.

    I am not sure how Ioniq owners measure this.

    It's highly believable the i3 has 100 % as battery tech has improved since the Leaf MK I and larger batteries are not cycled as much.


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    #743
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No the leaf does not report 100% capacity at 12 bars, it reports up to 100% but this could be in reality 85-100% as the manual states.

    Thas exactly my point. The Leaf reports the state of health via the 12 bars to the owner..... anything from 85%-100% is reported as 12 bars... which to the owner represents 100%... you have no indication if its 85.1% or 100% unless you use LeafSpy.

    LeafSpy equivalents are not available for other EV's so we dont really know what the other cars are at. The Torque App, from what I can see, is just reporting "12bars=100%" for the Ioniq rather than having the inside knowledge of what the actual degradation is, as calculated by the BMS.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's highly believable the i3 has 100 %...

    I'm amazed you believe that to be honest.

    Your car is still quite new so I'm sure its in the high 90's still, but to think it has suffered an absolute zero amount of degradation flies against all knowledge of Li-ion tech.... it started degrading the day it was manufactured.... do you think otherwise?


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    #744
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I believe it because it gives me the same range to 50 % same routes same driving style. The leaf did not after 3 years and I reached low battery earlier in my commute by the time I got rid of it.


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    #745
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I believe it because it gives me the same range to 50 % same routes same driving style. The leaf did not after 3 years and I reached low battery earlier in my commute by the time I got rid of it.

    My battery is down, according to LeafSpy, about 13%. My usual commute still has me arriving at much the same % as before.... maybe down 3%... certainly nowhere near 13%.

    I think the i3 is rated for something like 4500 cycles to 80%?
    If you cycle that once every 2 days and you have it 2yrs you already have ~5% degradation based on Samsung specs but thats probably not enough to notice it on your commute as temp, the Rex, wet, windy etc and various other variables would mask it anyway.

    I think you know yourself its not a true 100%! ;)
    If it is, Samsung have defied the laws of physics! :)


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    #746
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    KCross wrote: »
    My battery is down, according to LeafSpy, about 13%. My usual commute still has me arriving at much the same % as before.... maybe down 3%... certainly nowhere near 13%.

    I think the i3 is rated for something like 4500 cycles to 80%?
    If you cycle that once every 2 days and you have it 2yrs you already have ~5% degradation based on Samsung specs but thats probably not enough to notice it on your commute as temp, the Rex, wet, windy etc and various other variables would mask it anyway.

    I think you know yourself its not a true 100%! ;)
    If it is, Samsung have defied the laws of physics! :)

    I've seen people post that their battery is at 105% after 2 years. :D:D


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    #747
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KCross wrote: »
    My battery is down, according to LeafSpy, about 13%. My usual commute still has me arriving at much the same % as before.... maybe down 3%... certainly nowhere near 13%.

    I think the i3 is rated for something like 4500 cycles to 80%?
    If you cycle that once every 2 days and you have it 2yrs you already have ~5% degradation based on Samsung specs but thats probably not enough to notice it on your commute as temp, the Rex, wet, windy etc and various other variables would mask it anyway.

    I think you know yourself its not a true 100%! ;)
    If it is, Samsung have defied the laws of physics! :)

    It rarely gets a full cycle or even close to it. So that can only have a positive effect.

    As I said, the BMS monitors internal resistance which is a good indicator to battery health, the higher the resistance the less capacity it will have under load and the more it will heat when fast charging.

    When Nissan "fixed" their BMS they could also have unlocked hidden capacity to mask degradation. But better to have it than want it I suppose.

    But anyway guess we can argue about this forever.


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    #748
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Silent Running wrote: »
    I've seen people post that their battery is at 105% after 2 years. :D:D

    My own was at something like that when I bought it and it was a year old at that point and it was solid at 100% for about another year and then it went down to 93% literally overnight.

    The way the BMS calculates SOH is not an exact science.


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    #749
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,072 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It rarely gets a full cycle or even close to it. So that can only have a positive effect.

    A cycle can be 100-20-100 (80% DoD) over one day or it can be 100-60-100 over two days (80% over 2 days).

    I think you said yours doesnt go below 40-50% as you have the extra range now which is why I said one cycle every 2 days.

    So you are fully cycling the battery (according to Samsung specs) just not all in the one day.


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    #750
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But don't forget that battery life depends on many factors , improve the chemistry to better withstand some of those factors and you improve more than cycle life.

    Samsung's specs are I think for 3500 cycles if I remember correctly. 100% cycles, that is 0-100 , BMW does not allow this and the Rex even less.


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    #751
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    3200 cycles to 80% that would be about 544,000 Kms to 80% capacity based on 100% 0-100% cycles.


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