Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Leroy42 · 07-06-2019 2:35pm

markodaly wrote: »

Eh, that is is sanctimonious.

On that we can agree.

markodaly wrote: »

That he is sanctimonious and if you can read between the lines a perfect example of why Clinton lost the election.

This guy cost HC the election? Because he doesn't like golf courses? HC lost the election because she didn't have a foreign power backing her.

markodaly wrote: »

Did I explicity say that? No, so no.
Again, argue to the words I write, not what you think I write.

Just reading between the lines. Isn't that what your entire argument is based on!

markodaly wrote: »

You can look up his 'bio' on wiki, which looks like it was written by him. So that to tell me he has a very strong narcissist trait. One can make assumptions on this fact going forward.

It looks like, or it was? Which is it. So we can agree that narcissist trait is not a good thing?

markodaly wrote: »

Kinda in a way. I certainly do not waste my time online day after day arguing and getting all hot and bothered about Trump. I have a full-time job, a wife and a family. I have better uses of my time, rather than the odd posts here and there. There are a few posters here who have a bit of an, say, obsession about the topic.

Anyone who has literally thousands of posts on the one topic needs to step away a bit. Just my opinion of course.

You have over 3k posts since 2017, I have 9k since 2010. We really aren't that different. People have interest in a range of topics, some they feel more strongly about than others. Some they may feel they can contribute in a more detailed way than others. You seem to think that people should only comment if the world is at imminent danger.

now obviously I have been consumed by my interest in Trump, and I am sure I missed it. So care to explain the world threaten events over the last two years that led you to 3k+ posts?

Leroy42 · 07-06-2019 2:36pm

peddlelies wrote: »

How did the Nazi party get into power again?

Apologies, I don't understand you point.

markodaly · 07-06-2019 2:40pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

We are not talking amount any type of conflict. We are talking specifically amount armed insurrection in the US, with the aim of overthrowing the democratically elected government. That is entirely different to a guerrilla force trying to oust an oppressive invader.

Remember this is on the basis that US citizens need to arm themselves in order to somehow both protect themselves from and overthrow a government they no longer agree with. There is simply no evidence that A) it would work or that the average American would agree with them.

I love this dishonest argument. You try and create a false scope of reference by ignoring all world history and instead just focusing on the US to try and bolster your argument, which of course is just fallacy nevermind morally questionable and dishonest.

But all said and done, you do know that the US was found by armed revolution?
/end argument

Again you are not taking the reality of the situation into account. You think some dudes uphappy with the US government will be backed by the locals, by other countries? None of that exists at the moment so we are left with this notion that you have that somehow Joe Sixpack and his AK47 is going to take on the might of first the local police, then the FBI then the entire military might of the most powerful military in the world.

It depends of course on the environment on which such an insurrection could occur. I do not think it would or will happen in my lifetime but I do understand the theory behind that amendment. It is much easier to control a population who are defenseless and unarmed. Just look to our own path to independence. Did we use sticks and imaginary guns to fight the black and tans or did we use actual guns?

Saying all that and I am sure you are plotting your response, take some time out to look at the following video in regards to the Tiananmen Square massacre. You think the people in Bejing would have been quashed so easily if they had weapons to defend themselves? A very different ball game when an army tries to fight a civilian population who is armed. A generic history of the North should teach you that. But alas, if you are still ignorant after watching this video, so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mePptwTzn0&t=1s

BonnieSituation · 07-06-2019 2:44pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

lol By that logic all the videos you good folks have shared on here which have had snippets from Trump's speeches and interviews down the years, spliced together without context, were "fake" :pac:

End of the day, the video wasn't fake in the way the media suggested it was fake, that's the point. They claimed he shared a "doctored" video and he didn't. Even HRC repeated the lie:

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1132309330697609222

What makes me laugh the most is how you all sanctimoniously moan about Pelosi's snippets being taken out of context but yet are then more than happy to see Trump taken out context to suggest time and again that he meant something which he most certainly has not. You all know he wasn't calling Meghan a nasty person, and was just saying he didn't know she was nasty about him, so why demand something from others which you don't even demand of yourselves? Seems hypocritical, no?

That's how this thread has always been. Utter nonsense backslapped into oblivion regularly. You wouldn't mind if there was multiple mea culpas from them after the truth comes out showing that they have been utterly wrong about things which they've claimed Trump either said or did, but nothing. Many I suspect still even think he colluded with the Russians, all the while ignoring the fact that HRC........ well, we'll leave that for another day but her judgment cometh and that right soon.

So you're annoyed that people might have been taken in by a lie so?

What are your opinion on the 10000+ lies peddled by DJT so? You'd hardly agree with him if you think the lying and agreeing with lying are -regardless if their focus - just plain wrong.

BonnieSituation · 07-06-2019 2:47pm

markodaly wrote: »

I love this dishonest argument. You try and create a false scope of reference by ignoring all world history and instead just focusing on the US to try and bolster your argument, which of course is just fallacy nevermind morally questionable and dishonest.

But all said and done, you do know that the US was found by armed revolution?
/end argument

It depends of course on the environment on which such an insurrection could occur. I do not think it would or will happen in my lifetime but I do understand the theory behind that amendment. It is much easier to control a population who are defenseless and unarmed. Just look to our own path to independence. Did we use sticks and imaginary guns to fight the black and tans or did we use actual guns?

Saying all that and I am sure you are plotting your response, take some time out to look at the following video in regards to the Tiananmen Square massacre. You think the people in Bejing would have been quashed so easily if they had weapons to defend themselves? A very different ball game when an army tries to fight a civilian population who is armed. A generic history of the North should teach you that. But alas, if you are still ignorant after watching this video, so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mePptwTzn0&t=1s

What are Americans so afraid of?

What exactly is the tyranny of government that they fear will occur that they require the right to assemble a militia/bear arms etc?

Is it just at a federal level?

What about State or Municipal government?

peddlelies · 07-06-2019 2:51pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What are Americans so afraid of?

President Alexandria Cortez is a pretty scary prospect in fairness.

markodaly · 07-06-2019 2:52pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

This guy cost HC the election?

Oh, you are a literalist. I would have thought you had more intelligence to read between the lines, but alas perhaps not.

Of course, he himself did not cost Hillary the election, but his hectoring, badgering, sanctimonious debating style of moral superiority was a good example of what occurred in 2016 stateside by our betters. One would have thought these people would have learned their lessons but perhaps not.

HC lost the election because she didn't have a foreign power backing her.

Really?
Tell me again, how much Suadi money was put into the Clinton Foundation?
Don't blame the game, when your player loses.

Trump won the election because the midwest swung towards him on trade. That is the nub of it really. The rest is smoke and mirrors and a circle jerk that I have no interest in joining.

It looks like, or it was? Which is it. So we can agree that narcissist trait is not a good thing?

It was. It's a literal wiki CV. Bless him.
OK, maybe his kid typed it in for him.

You have over 3k posts since 2017, I have 9k since 2010.

You have almost 400 posts on this Trump thread alone and at least as much in the previous ones. Why so vexed on someone who gives not two ****s about you, nor you can control or influence?

Trump was edgy in 2016/2017 but man 3 years later, time to find something else to consume. Again, just my opinion.

everlast75 · 07-06-2019 2:56pm

peddlelies wrote: »

President Alexandria Cortez is a pretty scary prospect in fairness.

Despite being "green around the gills", he has shown more maturity, knowledge of her brief and political savy than the bumbling, incompetent, immoral, ignorant, insecure, pathological lying narcissist we have as current POTUS.*

*this is not name calling. Examples can be provided upon request

peddlelies · 07-06-2019 3:11pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Despite being "green around the gills", he has shown more maturity, knowledge of her brief and political savy than the bumbling, incompetent, immoral, ignorant, insecure, pathological lying narcissist we have as current POTUS.*

*this is not name calling. Examples can be provided upon request

Feels like I'm reading a random Krassenstein tweet.

May job numbers are out, down a lot from the previous month.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/07/jobs-report-economy-added-just-75-000-jobs-may/1374420001/

"Hiring was weak in May as employers added 75,000 jobs, bolstering the Federal Reserve’s case for cutting interest rates as soon as this month, a possibility that has juiced markets in recent days.

The unemployment rate was unchanged at a 50-year low of 3.6%, the Labor Department said Friday.

Economists surveyed by Bloomberg expected 178,000 job gains."

BonnieSituation · 07-06-2019 3:13pm

peddlelies wrote: »

President Alexandria Cortez is a pretty scary prospect in fairness.

What exactly is so scary about her proposals?

You've obviously got an opinion.

Chips Lovell · 07-06-2019 3:15pm

Mod Note

markodaly wrote: »

I would have thought you had more intelligence to read between the lines, but alas perhaps not.

One person was banned yesterday for personal attacks. Any more of this and there'll be more sanctions.

Remember the charter:

No personal abuse. NEVER attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.

peddlelies · 07-06-2019 3:38pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What exactly is so scary about her proposals?

You've obviously got an opinion.

As a matter of principle, I disagree with the notion that successful people or even higher up working class people should carry the burden of those who just can't be bothered to work hard.

When her "Green new deal" plans got released, instead of owning up to the line "economic security to all those who are unable or unwilling to work" which was published on her website and sent to the Washington Post in a draft, she and her team lied about it and claimed Republicans "doctored" the document repeatably. Then she started tweeting and retweeting tweets with false information covering the lie, some of those tweets have over a hundred thousand likes. Her spokes people went on national TV and did the same. Then there's her rubbish about cows and removing planes from the skies.

The senate recently voted on that deal, there was not one single vote in favour, either from a Democrat or Republican.

Beyond all that, she's consistently made huge public howlers when talking about statistics and figures and how the economy works. The Washington Post have ran some fact checkers on many of her statements and some of them are so ridiculously out of whack they make Trump look like a truth teller, especially the one about people working two jobs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/10/fact-checking-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.464d2f5bdcb7

Finally as a recent example, what happened with Amazon in NYC should set alarm bells off. She lobbied to stop those jobs from being created because she's "anti-corporation" and feels like those companies are ripping people off. They lost billions of dollars in potential revenue from that deal for NYC, the Mayor and high Democrat party members scowled her publicly and distanced themselves from her. There's a reason why Pelosi doesn't embrace her and the other radical members of that fridge in the Democrat party, on a national level there isn't any type of widespread support for the Socialist policies that she's pushing. Her poll numbers in NYC show that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/19/aoc-approval-rating-falls-after-amazon-deal-collapse-as-trump-hammers-democrats-over-socialism.html

"Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has grown less popular in New York – even among Democrats – following Amazon’s decision to scrap its planned offices in Queens.

Thirty-one percent of registered voters in the state view the freshman House Democrat favorably, while 44 percent have an unfavorable view, according to a Siena College poll released Monday."

I could go into her obsession with identity politics/male bashing but that's been page one of the Democrat party for years now. I genuinely believe people like her and those who support her ( for the most part ), are power hungry ideologues. As long as people like her tweets it doesn't matter how many lies are being told. You can say similar about Trump but for the most part with his actions he is fighting for the US worker and US economy on a global scale.

batgoat · 07-06-2019 3:52pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Apologies, I don't understand you point.

Just to say, it was a mixture of economic promises and finding outsiders to blame on the woes of society... Also tended to dehumanise them. Nothing similar to anyone we know.

RIGOLO · 07-06-2019 3:53pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Totally off topic but ...

Golf courses are ghastly, I 100% agree with that assessment as they're a waste of countryside and land, not to mention natural resources given the ludicruos amounts of water required in some places to maintain them. It's funny you have an anti-intellectual pop at a college professor ("so called experts!!" kind of thing?) but hands off our golf courses, the epitome of historical upwardly-mobile class snobbery (if we're going to play the kneejerk generalisation game, might as well indulge eh?)

And the Doonbeg golf course is a money losing operation, that is well known and may even be on record. The locals may clap and whoop at Saint Trump for giving them a job, but it's debatable as to for how long.

Equally hilarious that a man so vehemently against Climate Change, would then do his best to save Doonbeg from ... Climate change, in his attempt to build a sandbar along the coast (even citing climate change in the planning application). The Irish love their local business hero and to doff our caps, the other way at the hint of any external money.

How long is any job ?

Other than The Pope, Emperor of Japan , I dont know of many jobs that are for life.

So I would imagine the people of Doonbeg are happy to have a job .
I would imagine the people of Doonbeg are happy to have an opportunity to do their job, do their best, put in the hard slog and see where it goes and how long it lasts.

Only an anti-Trumper would import a sleight on Trump because he has given some people a job, with no guarantee of it lasting for in perpituity.

Id suspect being located on the West Coast of Ireland .. ludicrous amounts of water are not a huge issue, in the normal run of things.

UBER lost $1 billion this last quarter .
They employ 500 people in Limerick .
Do you object to all buisness that post a loss and that employ Irish people and bring revenue to the immediate community .

Walter Bishop · 07-06-2019 3:58pm

Only a ludicrous Trumpkin would insist that because Trump has provided some jobs somewhere, he is above all criticism.

The grovelling in Doonbeg is an embarassment.

pixelburp · 07-06-2019 4:01pm

RIGOLO wrote: »

Only an anti-Trumper would import a sleight on Trump because he has given some people a job, with no guarantee of it lasting for in perpituity.

Id suspect being located on the West Coast of Ireland .. ludicrous amounts of water are not a huge issue, in the normal run of things.

This is not a problem isolated to West Coast golf clubs; courses are notoriously thirsty and drains on the environment - and an eye-sore. And while I'm scarcely green fingered, I'm confident one doesn't maintain greenery with seawater. Golf Courses are a pox on the environment and like I said, off topic.

RIGOLO wrote: »

Do you object to all buisness that post a loss and that employ Irish people and bring revenue to the immediate community .

I don't object to any business, nor Doonbeg, I just question how stable the business is in a heavily saturated market and given it's apparently haemorrhaging money (Golf Resorts in Ireland are not a rare commodity). But as you're quick to throw out the "anti trumper" label, I question your bona fides. Not everything is an attack on Trump, it's possible to debate the man's business without drawing down the battle lines & resorting to whataboutery.

peddlelies · 07-06-2019 4:01pm

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Only a ludicrous Trumpkin would insist that because Trump has provided some jobs somewhere, he is above all criticism.

The grovelling in Doonbeg is an embarassment.

Can you point to the post where someone suggested that's "he's above all criticism" because his company created 300 jobs in Doonbeg?

From what I can interpret the point Rigolo made is that criticizing those jobs because they might not be around forever is nonsensical, and it is.

RIGOLO · 07-06-2019 4:09pm

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Only a ludicrous Trumpkin would insist that because Trump has provided some jobs somewhere, he is above all criticism.

The grovelling in Doonbeg is an embarassment.

Care to point out where

a ludicrous Trumpkin would insist that because Trump has provided some jobs somewhere, he is above all criticism.

I dont recall saying that .

I thought Doonbeg put on a great show, they should be proud of themselves, they represented themselves and the nation of Ireland very well.
I trust many Americans coming to visit the area will appreciate both the link and the golf links and will happily spend some bobs there.

You call it grovelling ... I call it that maybe a few Doonbeg residents will make some money from the aforementioned yank and use that money to clothe and feed their family , maybe even spend some of that money in their community allowing other Doonbeg residents to clothe and feed their family and the cycle goes on .

Your free to call that grovelling if you wish .

pixelburp · 07-06-2019 4:22pm

peddlelies wrote: »

Can you point to the post where someone suggested that's "he's above all criticism" because his company created 300 jobs in Doonbeg?

From what I can interpret the point Rigolo made is that criticizing those jobs because they might not be around forever is nonsensical, and it is.

Which was precisely NOT the point I was going for, because OBVIOUSLY no job is permanent and frankly it doesn't even need saying. The point I was making was that Doonbeg seems to be operating on shaky ground and would wonder, when the dust settles and the band rolls out of town, how many locals are concerned that the course doesn't appear to be doing so well. Which, apparently, it isn't. If we loop it into the subject at hand, Trump's touch with businesses isn't immaculate and would wonder whether this might be another Trump Casino in waiting.

TBH my main point was mostly a thin excuse to vent about what eye sores and drains on the environment Golf Resorts generally are, and the market seems to have become utterly saturated (when some hotels have not just one, but two courses attached). I'm honestly not surprised some like Doonbeg are struggling.

golfball37 · 07-06-2019 4:37pm

President Trump took time out from his round of Golf today to make the day of 27 National School kids who had gathered around the 9th fairway. He asked to see them not the other way around .
These human element stories which show his compassionate and endearing side are never highlighted. The people of West Clare will not forget this week in a hurry, well done to all for showing the country in a positive light and proving we are still the land of 100,000 welcomes.

Christy42 · 07-06-2019 4:40pm

golfball37 wrote: »

President Trump took time out from his round of Golf today to make the day of 27 National School kids who had gathered around the 9th fairway. He asked to see them not the other way around .
These human element stories which show his compassionate and endearing side are never highlighted. The people of West Clare will not forget this week in a hurry, well done to all for showing the country in a positive light and proving we are still the land of 100,000 welcomes.

Not sure this is really the highest bar for a compassionate and endearing side. Merely seems like it wasn't a disaster and therefore it is better than usual for Trump.

Walter Bishop · 07-06-2019 4:43pm

golfball37 wrote: »

These human element stories which show his compassionate and endearing side are never highlighted.

I guess the stories about the Trump admin cancelling legal aid, soccer, and English classes for immigrant kids must show the other side then eh?

'Why oh why won't these immigrants try and integrate?' *cancels English classes*

Billy Mays · 07-06-2019 4:52pm

Of course he had to sign the D-Day Proclamation at the top of the page

everlast75 · 07-06-2019 4:56pm

peddlelies wrote: »

Feels like I'm reading a random Krassenstein tweet.

May job numbers are out, down a lot from the previous month.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/07/jobs-report-economy-added-just-75-000-jobs-may/1374420001/

"Hiring was weak in May as employers added 75,000 jobs, bolstering the Federal Reserve’s case for cutting interest rates as soon as this month, a possibility that has juiced markets in recent days.

The unemployment rate was unchanged at a 50-year low of 3.6%, the Labor Department said Friday.

Economists surveyed by Bloomberg expected 178,000 job gains."

I've already pointed out to you that I have never followed Krassenstein, so can you please stick to what *I've* said.

I've set out his characteristics.
I've offered examples.
Perhaps our discussion could be furthered by you responding to the suggestion that he is the way I describe, by pointing out why I am wrong.

If not, it would be reasonable to draw from that you agree with my reading of the man.

jochenstacker · 07-06-2019 6:00pm

peddlelies wrote: »

As a matter of principle, I disagree with the notion that successful people or even higher up working class people should carry the burden of those who just can't be bothered to work hard.

It's called government. Everyone works together and pays taxes so the state can provide education, childcare, healthcare, social welfare, infrastructure, public transport as well as a police force and an army.
I'm amazed you are not aware of how this works.
If you want to live in a country where you're principles of "everyone for themselves and fcuk anyone else"apply, you'd have to move to somewhere like Somalia.
I also find it amazing that these believes mark me out as a perfectly middle of the road guy with fairly average and tame political views in Europe, while in America I'd be viewed as some pinko, lefty, far out commy baxtard.
And that the people who scream the loudest for it are the ones who end up paying for it.
It really is a case of "YES! YES!! HIT ME HARDER!!!"

TomOnBoard · 07-06-2019 6:11pm

So, the Laura Ingraham puff piece for Trump aired on Fox News and garnered many highly critical comments from folks of both political persuasions, and none. Amanda Carpenter, communications director for the Ted Cruz Presidential campaign, and a Republican commentator, possibly said it best:

“You look at the shot and what I see, just as an American, is a draft-dodging president who is sitting down with a woman who regularly defends anti-Semites—like Paul Nehlen—espouses white supremacist talking points while using the graves of World War soldiers who saved the world from Nazis as a prop,” Carpenter declared matter-of-factly. “That’s what it is.”

'nuff said!

MrFresh · 07-06-2019 6:12pm

The idea behind a basic income is to ensure everyone has a minimum standard of living and thus address some of the root causes of crime and poverty. This would benefit everyone. Many people can't see past the act to the goal.

gormdubhgorm · 07-06-2019 6:35pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He'd met and been interviewed by the guy on several occasions in the past.

Also , his "actions" in the clip are an almost exact reproduction of the manifestation of the journalists disability.

He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and why he was doing it.

After reading this link below it backs up your argument.

The article desperately tried to defend to defend Trump in this incident.
But it actually makes him look worse rather than defending him.

https://www.catholics4trump.com/the-true-story-donald-trump-did-not-mock-a-reporters-disability/

Mr Trump even got the correct hand to mimic Mr Kovaleski's condition.

But in fairness to Trump he is an equal opportunity mocker.
He slags off people left right and centre.
When he feels threatened he attacks.
It is his default setting.
If anything Kovaleski should take it as an indirect compliment.

Billy Mays · 07-06-2019 6:55pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're annoyed that people might have been taken in by a lie so?

What are your opinion on the 10000+ lies peddled by DJT so? You'd hardly agree with him if you think the lying and agreeing with lying are -regardless if their focus - just plain wrong.

I've never seen a Trump fan actually answer this question

gormdubhgorm · 07-06-2019 6:59pm

Billy Mays wrote: »

Of course he had to sign the D-Day Proclamation at the top of the page

What surprises me more that he did not cross out 'D-Day' in the heading and write his name there!

Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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