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Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

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  • Options
    #9362
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    To be honest, I don’t see that happening in Ireland. It’s a practical issue and travel is pretty much essential to what it is to be Irish. We travel a hell of a lot and it’s not really something we see as some kind of luxury indulgence. It’s a fact of life in a small, interconnected, very wet island.

    Ultimately we need to find a technical solution to this ASAP or we are looking at major socioeconomic problems in a couple of years time.

    I mean if you look at how essential travel is in terms of even just money flowing around Europe, or the USA from industrial / services focused regions to regions that life off that same money in terms of providing tourism services it’s huge.

    Ireland, relatively speaking, has a fairly modest tourism sector compared to say Spain, France, Italy, Florida, Hawaii, even California.

    Iceland and NZ for example are hugely dependent on tourism, so in both those cases they can’t go on indefinitely sealed off.

    Without a solution to the virus itself, other than lockdowns, which aren’t a solution at all they’re just a way to preventing damage by limiting contacts, I think we are in for one hell of a global depression.

    I think when more lives are lost, business go down the toilet, jobs lost... financial hardship etc more people will be turned off unessential travel and they realise that travel is a source the airport will be the new meat factory.

    Everyone who feels they are entitled to a holiday wants to bury their head in the sand and pretend its not a source but they have to pull their head into reality at some stage.


  • Options
    #9363
    Renjit
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    No nor mine, was just mentioned there on the 11 news on the radio and we've one phone in our house thats got the issue but I don't see how it relates to the app.

    Anyway here's the reddit thread for anyone interested
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/i5xkfo/covid_application_eating_battery/?utm_source=xpromo&utm_medium=amp&utm_name=amp_comment_iterations&utm_term=active_search&utm_content=post_body

    This could be a bug in the app itself which doesn't manifest under normal circumstances. Software and compatibility with OS components is a complex thing.


  • Options
    #9364
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    https://twitter.com/ciaranmullooly/status/1292429292329209858?s=21


  • Options
    #9365
    Benimar
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Benimar


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1292421222538584069?s=21

    This is madness. They will do the same with Schools and Unis.

    Anyone waiting a result shouldn’t be out and about.


  • Options
    #9366
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    It's an utter farce that these factories are allowed to remain open while the rest of the 3 counties are put back into lockdown and other businesses need to close. We've known for months these places were a risk for spread of the virus yet nothing was done about it.

    They're not essential. We're not going to starve if a few meat factories need to close for a while so they can sort themselves out.

    How did the the virus get in to the meat factories? the daily cases a few weeks ago were in single figures seems to be a huge coincidence that they have outbreaks in different factories when the prevalence in the country was so low.

    That's the question


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  • Options
    #9367
    Renjit
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    Everyone who feels they are entitled to a holiday wants to bury their head in the sand and pretend its not a source but they have to pull their head into reality at some stage.

    Look few threads back :cool:


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    #9368
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Germany also has a much, much older age profile than Ireland and a longer time in relative prosperity as well as the experience of rebuilding after WWII.

    Chalk and cheese in terms of many attitudinal issues.

    You’ll also find the anglophone countries, particularly the 4 smaller ones : Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland have a whole load of similarities on some of those scales.
    mandrake04 wrote: »
    I think when more lives are lost, business go down the toilet, jobs lost... financial hardship etc more people will be turned off unessential travel and they realise that travel is a source the airport will be the new meat factory.

    Everyone who feels they are entitled to a holiday wants to bury their head in the sand and pretend its not a source but they have to pull their head into reality at some stage.

    The issue is though that travel to and from places that have no more risk than Ireland, they’re not a likely source of infections

    Should we just starve and shun Southern Europe due to some unscientific hunch we have?

    The reality of it is that we spend 6bn a year, most of which probably flows into Spain and Portugal and so does the U.K., Germany, the Netherlands and so on.

    That money flows back here again in terms of purchase of services and products from multinational companies, Irish exports, Irish services companies, airlines, banks etc etc etc ans it does exactly the same in Germany, the Netherlands, the uk etc etc.

    Sean and Mary don’t go to Spain this year. Javier and Maria stop paying the mortgage on the hotel. The hotel collapses. Their staff stop going on Ryanair flights, stop buying iPhones and subscribing to google. Mary wonders why her job at Google is quieter. Meanwhile they all put upgrading the car on hold and someone in Germany loses a job and then the banks start having loans going unpaid and then that ends up feeding into a mess that brings us all crashing down to Earth as we all share the same currency and central banking system, as we are effectively one economy.

    If we all just stop doing that a big chunk of the European economy will collapse and need bailing out and if these destinations weren’t the source of infections, what exactly have we done?

    It would seem we actually need to be promoting low density holidays with adequate social distancing, not just ceasing all travel.

    There’s an element of pragmatism and also pan EU cooperation on technical issues like this being totally lost.

    We need testing, systems and coordination. The EU instituons haven’t done very well at achieving that so far. Admittedly, it’s only 6 months, but they could be doing a lot more.

    The whole thing could end up being another 2008 domino effect where money stops flowing and banking systems start failing.

    We don’t actually operate as an isolated Irish bubble. We are heavily interconnected to our EU network and beyond and when that starts to fail, we will feel it too.


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    #9369
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    I think when more lives are lost, business go down the toilet, jobs lost... financial hardship etc more people will be turned off unessential travel and they realise that travel is a source the airport will be the new meat factory.

    Everyone who feels they are entitled to a holiday wants to bury their head in the sand and pretend its not a source but they have to pull their head into reality at some stage.

    I agree. What a waft of of Irish exceptionalism after extolling the virtues of Irish vs us.
    Travel is essential to being Irish as every single generation has had to emigrate in large numbers because our country can’t get its **** together ever.
    Every other country in EU goes on holidays abroad. It’s nothing particular to Ireland or being an island.


    I’d think that the only people pushing for mandatory foreign travel are those with property interests abroad. The very same sort who steered us into the most damaging recession this country has ever faced. Johnny Ronan comes to mind.

    This is different though, those terrible decisions hurt our economic prospects.
    These terrible decisions will hit the health prospects of our children.


  • Options
    #9370
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Renjit wrote: »
    This could be a bug in the app itself which doesn't manifest under normal circumstances. Software and compatibility with OS components is a complex thing.

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-...issues-1058201

    HSE reporting the phone battery issue issue is with a google update- not directly related to the Covid app.


  • Options
    #9371
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    The issue is though that travel to and from places that have no more risk than Ireland, they’re not a likely source of infections

    Should we just starve and shun Southern Europe due to some unscientific hunch we have?

    The reality of it is that we spend 6bn a year, most of which probably flows into Spain and Portugal and so does the U.K., Germany, the Netherlands and so on.

    If we all just stop doing that a big chunk of the European economy will collapse and need bailing out and if these destinations weren’t the source of infections, what exactly have we done?

    It would seem we actually need to be promoting low density holidays with adequate social distancing, not just ceasing all travel.

    There’s an element of pragmatism and also pan EU cooperation on technical issues like this being totally lost.

    We need testing, systems and coordination. The EU instituons haven’t done very well at achieving that so far. Admittedly, it’s only 6 months, but they could be doing a lot more.

    I would tend to agree with the idea of what you are saying, but we are not going see a vaccine until early next year and even at that it will probably be limited roll out over a long time.

    This quandary could still ongoing this time next year, by then I think a lot of people will appreciate just being able to get out of the house and a holiday isnt even on the radar.

    Lot of people forfeited holidays this year at their own cost, but they might still pay the price for others actions.


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    #9372
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Trying to convince people you need to go on holidays during a pandemic to pay Manuel and Maria’s mortgage is a pretty weak argument when you risk infecting
    a country and cause a lockdown and kids can’t go to school, you lose your job and you can’t pay your own mortgage.

    No matter how many big words or philosophical ideas are used.


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    #9373
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,505 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/ciaranmullooly/status/1292429292329209858?s=21

    Was the outbreak in Kildare Chilling not reported in 4thAugust? I'd hope we have those cases mostly reported at this stage.


  • Options
    #9374
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Trying to convince people you need to go on holidays during a pandemic to pay Manuel and Maria’s mortgage is a pretty weak argument when you risk infecting
    a country and cause a lockdown and kids can’t go to school.

    No matter how many big words or philosophical ideas are used.

    Not really when you consider that we can maybe afford to do what we are doing for 12 months. After that the economy will begin to collapse. That’s inevitable. The EU and particularly the Eurozone is effectively one economy. If Spain and Portugal go on a nose dive, so do we. We are very much all in this together.

    Even outside the Eurozone counties will be crucified for with high bond yields if similar places go into depressions.

    We need to be making choices based on risk not notions.

    A lot of EU countries are open to other EU countries, without significant issues and they are targeting restrictions at very high risk places like the USA, Brazil and also hot spots within the EU like Catalonia, Luxembourg and Belgium.

    What we’ve done is implement an notional 2 week quarantine that we don’t enforce properly and the U.K. has done the same.


  • Options
    #9375
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Trying to convince people you need to go on holidays during a pandemic to pay Manuel and Maria’s mortgage is a pretty weak argument when you risk infecting
    a country and cause a lockdown and kids can’t go to school.

    No matter how many big words or philosophical ideas are used.

    Yep imagine your parents dying, losing your business or job because someone went on their jollies to some tacky Spanish hotel and cheap piss.

    Sure it be grand..


  • Options
    #9376
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    petes wrote: »
    The irony of saying to someone that it's easy to say something to someone over the internet but doing the exact same thing with a thinly veiled threat.

    If you read the posts you'll find it was the other poster that jumped in with the bravado. And I fail to see any threat. Do you have a reason for trying to imply that there is one?


  • Options
    #9377
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Was the outbreak in Kildare Chilling not reported in 4thAugust? I'd hope we have those cases mostly reported at this stage.

    They were +70 yesterday apparently so I would assume most are reported


  • Options
    #9378
    Onesea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid?fbclid=IwAR0me5eLLROE_A08GLZs19_LiupmrMZnc4iTKScMN8jnUJpZpwwwv-C0bfQ



    "As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK."


    UK government.
    Aparentpy there is no pandemic, go check out what government websites are stating.


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    #9379
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    I hope everybody in Ireland sees exactly where the blame lies with these new infection numbers. Luminous green warning signs were pointed directly at the meat processing plants weeks ago. None of those plants were shut down at the time when they should have been.

    If the government can shut down 3 counties why could they not shut down one or 2 meat companies? It’s either incompetence or corruption that they didn’t imo.

    Expect loads of deflection of blame from these clowns this week. Probably use it as an excuse to introduce mandatory outside / street mask wearing or further restaurant curfews.


  • Options
    #9380
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    So what’s the plan then if the economy does collapse? We won’t be able to afford to pay for the healthcare system and expensive public expenditure needed to support all of this.

    That’s why it’s a balancing act and why we can’t just batten down the hatches and lock the doors for the next few years.

    We need to identify what the risks actually are, not just impose blanket bans on huge sectors of the economy. We should be using a scalpel not a sledge hammer.

    Things like the outbreaks in the meat plants should have been preempted. Instead we’ve people waffling on about trips to places with less COVID issue than Naas!

    I fully agree with the closing down non essential trips from the USA or anywhere that has high risk but not all foreign travel is of the same risk level as Miami and Texas ans it’s ludicrous to just close down absolutely everything globally and indefinitely. You’d be sending us back to a time before the 19th century!

    Look at the German model for example. It makes absolute sense! Ours and the UK’s seems to be either by panic m, unwillingness to upset the USA and very little logic.


  • Options
    #9381
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    You say that on the internet, I pick and choose my battles and I assume in the same circumstances you do the same.

    Anyway I was speaking in general, you seem to have taken it personally. Travelers in time will be treated like pariahs once enough human and economic damage is done and the greater society realises that unessential travel wasnt the best idea.

    Its going happen, society just need to learn the lesson.

    We have a green list and I am travelling to a green list country. Who are you to say that I shouldn't travel to a green list country, and worse, to call me a cunt for doing so? I think you should rethink that comment.


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    #9382
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Not really when you consider that we can maybe afford to do what we are doing for 12 months. After that the economy will begin to collapse. That’s inevitable. The EU and particularly the Eurozone is effectively one economy. If Spain and Portugal go on a nose dive, so do we. We are very much all in this together.

    Even outside the Eurozone counties will be crucified for with high bond yields if similar places go into depressions.

    We need to be making choices based on risk not notions.

    A lot of EU countries are open to other EU countries, without significant issues and they are targeting restrictions at very high risk places like the USA, Brazil and also hot spots within the EU like Catalonia, Luxembourg and Belgium.

    What we’ve done is implement an notional 2 week quarantine that we don’t enforce properly and the U.K. has done the same.

    And for all we know some of the meat plant workers could be Brazilians who flew in to the country without hindrance.


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    #9383
    US2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭US2


    Cousin of mine got a phone call Thursday evening that she was a close contact of someone who tested positive in a&e in UHL. Still hasn't been tested, told not to leave the house for 2 weeks.

    I know they're busy with LOK but that's unacceptable having someone with kids and a mortgage out of work for 2 weeks and she mightn't even have it ?


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    #9384
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    polesheep wrote: »
    We have a green list and I am travelling to a green list country. Who are you to say that I shouldn't travel to a green list country, and worse, to call me a cunt for doing so? I think you should rethink that comment.

    Green list is farce, you could book a holiday to a green country today and it be off the list before you got to fly out. Its a complete joke.

    whats there to rethink? I was speaking in general not personally, in time more and more will think like me.


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    #9385
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    US2 wrote: »
    Cousin of mine got a phone call Thursday evening that she was a close contact of someone who tested positive in a&e in UHL. Still hasn't been tested, told not to leave the house for 2 weeks.

    I know they're busy with LOK but that's unacceptable having someone with kids and a mortgage out of work for 2 weeks and she mightn't even have it ?

    That is the contract tracing in operation. She was a close contact so she had a risk and possible exposure to the virus. The health authorities are trying to take close contacts of confirmed cases out of circulation to prevent and slow down community transmissions. Its all part of the process. Its disappointing. There is the covid19 sickness payment. I don't know how it works but I think it was brought in for this reason for when people need to isolate themselves.


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    #9386
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    US2 wrote: »
    Cousin of mine got a phone call Thursday evening that she was a close contact of someone who tested positive in a&e in UHL. Still hasn't been tested, told not to leave the house for 2 weeks.

    I know they're busy with LOK but that's unacceptable having someone with kids and a mortgage out of work for 2 weeks and she mightn't even have it ?

    But she might have it too.... if you were a close contact, you isolate yourself -- that's what happens. What's your alternative solution?


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    #9387
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    polesheep wrote: »
    We have a green list and I am travelling to a green list country. Who are you to say that I shouldn't travel to a green list country, and worse, to call me a cunt for doing so? I think you should rethink that comment.

    OMG will ya stop, go for your hols, thanks for letting us know. By now we all know you are going!!!


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    #9388
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,520 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    US2 wrote: »
    Cousin of mine got a phone call Thursday evening that she was a close contact of someone who tested positive in a&e in UHL. Still hasn't been tested, told not to leave the house for 2 weeks.

    I know they're busy with LOK but that's unacceptable having someone with kids and a mortgage out of work for 2 weeks and she mightn't even have it ?


    Of course she has to isolate, the only thing here that needs to be changed is the delay on the test.


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    #9389
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    polesheep wrote: »
    And for all we know some of the meat plant workers could be Brazilians who flew in to the country without hindrance.

    Given the fact that we’ve had such an unworkable mess as a policy for the borders, and the U.K. has been the same, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

    We are letting high risk people through without testing or proper quarantine while we are cutting ourselves off from low risk EU neighbours with a somewhat ludicrous set of policies without coordination with the rest of the EU.

    One size fits all policy on travel makes no sense given the huge variance in risk level in different countries.

    If we end up getting this wrong we’ll end up on the high risk list ourselves!


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    #9390
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,298 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Will it go up again today?


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    #9391
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    US2 wrote: »
    Cousin of mine got a phone call Thursday evening that she was a close contact of someone who tested positive in a&e in UHL. Still hasn't been tested, told not to leave the house for 2 weeks.

    I know they're busy with LOK but that's unacceptable having someone with kids and a mortgage out of work for 2 weeks and she mightn't even have it ?

    Seems the HSE is as incompetent as ever. How can someone in a situation like that not be tested within 24h of that phone call? They’re not THAT busy with tests at the moment.

    At most they should by targeting being able to give someone an answer on that within maximum 3 days of call. Test, process and result and they should be offered immediate financial and practical support for those days they’re isolated and also any employer who pressures someone to breech that should be facing a €50,000 fine.

    If she tests negative and all is fine, she should be able to get back to normal within a few days without any significant disruption.


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