Home heating automation

deezell wrote: »

He's assuming the wifi controlled din rail contacor has rubbish contacts compared to a standard voltage controlled contacter. A few € extra buys the 50a version of this. Its purely a resistive load, so the arcing will be minimal. My only issue with din rail breakers and contactors in general is their cycle rating, are they made for multiple operations in a short time? I'd imagine 3 or 4 HW immersion calls during a day wouldn't tax it.

True, It's a resistive load but, potential for heat being built up on those contacts is high given that a 3KW heater will draw the full 3KW for potentially hours (especially large tanks for solar etc.). I've seen enough imerssion heater switches fail because of this and they were designed specifically for immersion heaters. Those relays in the smart switches have no hope of disapating excess heat and will fail.

Brusna wrote: »

That’s fair enough. I have this Schneider Electric contactor.

https://www.se.com/ww/en/product/GC2520M5/tests-gc---modular-contactor---25-a---2-no---coil-220...240-v-ac/

Physically it’s the same size as the smart switch but I take your point re the quality of the products. I can’t find any detailed specifications for the smart switch which would put me off as well.

I'd have a lot more faith in that, it may be physically the same size, but if you open them the smart switch will have a smaller relay and the electronics to control it.

I doubt it is a proper contactor as claimed, they also call it a circuit breaker but in description say it has no over current protection.

Random question as I can't seem to find anyone mentioning it.

It seems Energia have a condition for their Netatmo offer that says;

"If you move house you cannot move the Netatmo with you, you must leave it on the property as it forms part of the central heating system"

Why is this? If it's 'mine' then shouldn't I be able to do with it as I please if I move? Has anyone moved and brought an Energia Netatmo with them?

theintern wrote: »

Random question as I can't seem to find anyone mentioning it.

It seems Energia have a condition for their Netatmo offer that says;

"If you move house you cannot move the Netatmo with you, you must leave it on the property as it forms part of the central heating system"

Why is this? If it's 'mine' then shouldn't I be able to do with it as I please if I move? Has anyone moved and brought an Energia Netatmo with them?

no you cant, if your setup is anything like hive etc, the hub controls/thermostat is basically tied into all the auto valves etc, it would be like saying big fck u to someone buying/moving into your old place as they would need plumber etc to wire new one in, while in theory the thermostat could be bought and prob synced instead of old one but thing costs like 100-150e itself, its all the remote valves, wiring that cost the most, as in my case its new boiler that was setup and theres no manual temp controls left, aside on off.

Looking for some advice on a new house and first venture into heating automation.

Current setup in the house (as far as I can make out still learning..) -

• Gas Boiler - Baxi 35/60 with Immermat mechanical pin timer in utility
• Imit manual thermostat in hall and landing
• 3 Danfoss motorised values and a HW tank thermostat plumped/wired in hot press/HW tank.
• Immersion for HW tank on regular on/off bath/sink switch.

So looks like I have 3 zones already

1. Downstairs zone covering 7 rads with manual TRVs
2. Upstairs zone covering 6 rads with manual TRVs
3. HW zone

Also looking at upgrading current boiler to higher efficiency condensing unit and standards like opentherm might be aid to system.

Have looked at Google Nests as a lot of other devices in the ecosystem but it looks like Evohome or Tado might be a better solution with the TRV integration.

Anyone have view on system to go with? Also don't mind switching supplier if any discounts or benefits - carbon credits from Electric Ireland for example.

Clareman wrote: »

I think it's because Energia claim an energy grant for the installation of it off the government and that grant it tied to the house not the customer.

Spot on. It would be like trying to bring your house number with you, or in the past your phone number (before we had non geographic), or your toilet bowl. Actually, in Holland it was common to take the toilet bowls.
Nonetheless, if your installation is a single WIRED Netatmo, you can replace it with a mechanical one and make off with it and the hub relay which is only used for internet connection when the stat is hardwired to the boiler. If the stat is wireless, its relay hub is wired to the boiler, so replacing it with a cheap wired stat is a bigger job. The issue of grant, ownership etc is another story, plus the stat will increase the energy rating given to the house on the compulsory survey required to sell.
If you leave it you'll have to deregister the device(s) from your app to let the new owner use it.

deezell wrote: »

Spot on. It would be like trying to bring your house number with you, or in the past your phone number (before we had non geographic), or your toilet bowl. Actually, in Holland it was common to take the toilet bowls.
Nonetheless, if your installation is a single WIRED Netatmo, you can replace it with a mechanical one and make off with it and the hub relay which is only used for internet connection when the stat is hardwired to the boiler. If the stat is wireless, its relay hub is wired to the boiler, so replacing it with a cheap wired stat is a bigger job. The issue of grant, ownership etc is another story, plus the stat will increase the energy rating given to the house on the compulsory survey required to sell.
If you leave it you'll have to deregister the device(s) from your app to let the new owner use it.

Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I might not bother taking Energia up on the offer then and just install one myself. Seems like more hassle than it's worth when I'm in a rental right now and looking to buy soon.

championc wrote: »

@Type 901 see post #1942

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113756725&postcount=1942

Thanks for that! Been reading back through the thread/forum but not seen that post yet. Really good coverage of what needs doing. Think I'll be covered for initial steps in relation to the zone valves and HW tank stat, just need to check all working correctly.

My understanding I will need the following -
V3 wired thermostat starter pack
Additional wired thermostat
Starter pack comes with 2 TRVs and will need combination of multiple packs to ensure all rads covered.

In relation to the setup is it correct that one stat will control say downstairs zone and HW with another stat controlling the upstairs zone. From the Tado support link (option 3) it looks like I might need the wireless extension for the 2nd zone even though wired currently?

https://support.tado.com/en/articles/3481812-how-does-tado-control-a-multi-zone-radiator-heating-system

scamalert wrote: »

no expert, but doubt its even possible some people have 2 zone heating, so in my limited understanding heating pipes would span say across ground foor and separate set over 1st floor allowing to have 2 separate zones controled by temps. dont imagine ones house would have separate pipes going into diff rads, so at best you could have one valve for ground floor but it would still heat entire floor not specific room, that is if theres 2 separate zones.


could be wrong and someone might know better.

Heating is all just one zone, which I'd be happy with if I can just turn on and off rads via app, timer etc. Currently I just do it manually, which is a pain.

Alkers wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience of this stuff: https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-connect-wi-fi-gateway-hub-for-smart-radiator-thermostat-81993

We have a combi boiler and six rads with trvs that I want to be able to control (seperate to hall (where heating thermostat is) and bathrooms).

This is mainly as now that I'm working from home, I want to have the heating on in the office and not the rest of the house all day. To do this currently I'd have to turn off all the trvs each morning and turn them back in the evening.

I'm not particularly interested in replacing our current thermostat which is a simple timer set to different temperatures for times of the day and meets our needs perfectly and I can't see much benefit in having the trvs being able to tell the boiler to fire up once we have the main thermostat setup correctly?

I can't find any cheaper solution but still 50e for a hub and 180e for 6 trvs seems quite an expensive fix! Thoughts?

You could just go for 6 Tado TRV's and an internet bridge. You should be able to get a starter pack with two TRV's and then a Quad Pack

Type 901 wrote: »

Looking for some advice on a new house and first venture into heating automation.

Current setup in the house (as far as I can make out still learning..) -

ò
• Gas Boiler - Baxi 35/60 with Immermat mechanical pin timer in utility
• Imit manual thermostat in hall and landing
• 3 Danfoss motorised values and a HW tank thermostat plumped/wired in hot press/HW tank.
• Immersion for HW tank on regular on/off bath/sink switch.

So looks like I have 3 zones already

1. Downstairs zone covering 7 rads with manual TRVs
2. Upstairs zone covering 6 rads with manual TRVs
3. HW zone

Also looking at upgrading current boiler to higher efficiency condensing unit and standards like opentherm might be aid to system.

Have looked at Google Nests as a lot of other devices in the ecosystem but it looks like Evohome or Tado might be a better solution with the TRV integration.

Anyone have view on system to go with? Also don't mind switching supplier if any discounts or benefits - carbon credits from Electric Ireland for example.

A word first on Opentherm. There are very limited options for controlling a boiler with Opentherm modulation when you have multiple zones and their stats. You can't physically combine the OT signals from stats or their wireless relays like you can combine the raw live boiler call voltage. With Tado, the ext kit provides at most OT control of the boiler for 1 CH zone and direct HW from a system boiler. For a HW cylinder system with S plan zone valve switching, its not clear if Tado can open the CH and HW zone valves while calling the boiler via OT terminals. Iirc, the mains relays in the ext kit don't close if the Tado is configured to address the boiler via OT. Add a second CH zone and tado stat and valve, and you have a second stat trying to send OT boiler control signals, but these can't be simply combined by joining the wires.
Afaik, the high end evohome can handle this with individal standard zone valves. EPH have also developed a system where the individual zone stat/receivers wirelessly communicate and a single receiver addresses the boiler for HW or CH calls using OT, up to 12 zones, while at the same time the receivers directly switch their live mains motorised zone valves.
If your zoning is entirely achieved by smart TRVs, then OT becomes an option as all TRVs will address the boiler via a single hub or receiver. If there is a zone valve for HW, its OK to send a VOLT FREE ( very important) contact closure signal, a short circuit effectively, to the boiler OT terminals. The OT software reads this as a straight boiler on request, and will heat until the HW zone relay opens, reverting to OT control of CH if a stat or TRV requests heat.
So in recommending a system, Evo or EPH if you absolutely want OT. If you want a simple life and boiler calling, Tado does a great job of calling the boilers using its own modulation algorithm, finely turning the boiler on/off as target CH temperature approaches, with full on when the call is from its HW timer. TRVs can be added also
For a no nonsense easily installed 3 zone smart system with TRV ability the Drayton wiser kit 3 is great value for money, can do OT subject to the constraints described earlier, and all stats are wireless so you can relocate away from your old wired stat locations. Currently only €207 from Screfix.ie for the complete kit, €52 for optional TRVs.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-hot-water-3-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/4081v

Hi - does anyone have recommendations for an electrician/plumber in the West Cork area to help me with smart home heating installation please? Having difficulty in getting a competent person

thanks

deezell wrote: »

I suggest you split the job, decide if you want plumbed zones, TRV valves fitted, etc, and talk to an 'ordinary' plumber about pipes, don't mention Smart stuff. Once you have a zoned system either by motorised zone valve or by TRV priced up, let him install that. You can lock open TRVs and zone valves into a single zone while waiting for your smart stat wire up, and you're ready for a sparks to wire in a smart zone controller, stats or relays, and if it's TRVs you went with you can pop smart ones on yourself.
If you already have some zone valves, ordinary wall stat, a way to heat HW without the rads coming on, you might not need any plumbing at all, other than a few smart TRVs, and you may already have the correct radiator valves for these. Plumbers who fully understand the concept of smart heating are scarce, a pity as it's just the same control wiring from their point of view, the smart activity is virtual in software.

Hey deezell - actually I got all the details off you only some time ago (as attached). I need to get 2 motoroized valves installed (one new) for a 2+1 zone (2h + 1hw), want to go with the Drayton Wiser 3 zone. Then I need the stats.

I have basic heating setup, oil boiler, thermostat on wall, i turn CH on by flicking switch on boiler, CH pump is turned on/off using mechanical stat on wall. If i leave the stat down and the pump off, the water will eventually get warm using gravity.

My question is, can i use the Drayton wiser system? At the moment I don’t have any TRVs installed but i am going to get a plumber to sort this next month. If Drayton wiser is a runner, would anyone have a wiring diagram for it?

Cheers,