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Downside of social welfare

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  • 17-08-2018 12:27pm
    #1
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭


    Got caught up in a thread about our welfare state and how appealing it can be.

    Was just wondering what the downsides of being stuck in the welfare system would be ?

    Trying to bring a bit of balance


    * By welfare i mean rent assistance,council house,medical card etc


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    #2
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Got caught up in a thread about our welfare state and how appealing it can be.

    Was just wondering what the downsides of being stuck in the welfare system would be ?

    Trying to bring a bit of balance

    Having a good job and then losing it - you soon find there's nothing in the way of help but basic dole.


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    #3
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

    I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

    Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

    Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

    People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.


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    #4
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Got caught up in a thread about our welfare state and how appealing it can be.

    Was just wondering what the downsides of being stuck in the welfare system would be ?

    Trying to bring a bit of balance

    What do you mean the by "the welfare system"?

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_welfare_system_in_ireland.html


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The downside is that it can reduce the motivation for some people to better themselves. Also, the chances of increasing levels of alcoholism and drug dependency is greater where there is a generous welfare system.


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    #6
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Anyone on an old-age pension is "stuck in the welfare system." Anyone getting child benefit is "stuck in the welfare system."

    I think around half the population is getting some kind of payment. You need to be more specific, OP.


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    #7
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It's a bit like taking an animal from the wild and putting them in a zoo. The original animal can be returned to the wild as it still has its hunting instincts, wheas if they have cub's, the cubs will be waited on hand and foot, fed, kept safe etc. They have a chance as they can be thought by their parents but a lesser chance. Generations down the line, they have no chance of providing for themselves, they've never been thought how. Their parents don't know how. They've become institutionalized into the zoo.


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    #8
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

    I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

    Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

    Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

    People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.


    Sorry to hear that . Good to see you are back on your feet


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    #9
    SomeSayKos
    Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭SomeSayKos


    Lost my job when the recession hit and subsequently went on the dole. The seemingly impossible task of finding a job back then made me less and less motivated to the point where i developed a general anxiety disorder and bouts of depression. Luckily now that's behind me and I'm fully employed but there was a few dark years back then. I'll never forget when a welfare agent came to assess my home for rent allowance and before he left the house he looked me in the eye and said " welfare is a trap. for your own sake do whatever you can to get out of it as soon as possible".


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    #10
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,674 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    No promotions.

    Your only hope of doing better is a benefit increase - and that will usually only match inflation.


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    #11
    WildCardDoW
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭WildCardDoW


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The downside is that it can reduce the motivation for some people to better themselves. Also, the chances of increasing levels of alcoholism and drug dependency is greater where there is a generous welfare system.

    Too much time.

    People do seem to not realise that it's quite easy to become demotivated and apathetic when on the dole for an extended period (or even depressed). Experienced it myself while working part time directly after college and strugling to get interviews, some mates had it worse (I feel) that had left their part time jobs to concentrate on college / exams etc.


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    #12
    frosty123
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭frosty123


    you get lazy, and you're brain turns to mush

    but....then again its nice to have a lie in on wet miserable mornings


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    #13
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Depends on what kind of life you want to live.

    I want to go on nice holidays, have a comfortable life, buy nice things, live in a nice home etc...

    It just wouldnt suit me.


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    #14
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    The "easy life" aspect is aimed at those who rarely or never worked and have everything paid for, health, home, heating, some money in their accounts and are very happy in that situation. It's easy to do f all and get paid a very generous amount.

    It's not easy to come from a full time job and being very comfortable financially, to getting a miserable 200 per week and a medical card. The vast majority of people in that situation find if very difficult and the system is incredibly unfair. You should receive a % of your wages for 3-6 months, and then get the bare minimum. Those who don't want to work at all? Let them rot, they are a cancer on society.


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    #15
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    frosty123 wrote: »
    you get lazy, and you're brain turns to mush

    but....then again its nice to have a lie in on wet miserable mornings

    The novelty of the lie ins wears off fairly quick once you're on the dole more than a few weeks.


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    #16
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Depending on your attitude towards working, it can make your self confidence and feeling of worth plummet.


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    #17
    SomeSayKos
    Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭SomeSayKos


    frosty123 wrote: »
    you get lazy, and you're brain turns to mush
    Exactly!


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    #18
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I was on the dole a few years after the recession.

    I went from having a pretty well paid and comfortable job, was able to easily pay my bills and rent and raise my kids.

    Recession happened, lost my job, partner eventually left me due to a mixture of stress and being a cheating twat, took the kids to the other side of the country.

    Bills piled up, I had to move back into the family home until I was finally able to find a stable job and get a new apartment.

    People love to go on and on about the 'easy life' on the dole, but after bills and so on I had about €15 a week so it was impossible to save up any sort of cash to move out.
    You didn't choose it as a lifestyle but there are thousands who are happy to do so


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    #19
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Edgware wrote: »
    You didn't choose it as a lifestyle but there are thousands who are happy to do so

    I'd safely say the vast majority of people on the dole do not want to be on the dole. There are absolutely a lot of scroungers out there, and I despise their attitude.

    Quite often though, you'll find this as a learned attitude. Often coming from a background that promotes and enjoys the concept of the free ride through life.

    What I can say is that when I was out of work during the recession it was absolutely soul crushing. Most jobs going at the time were temporary or 0 hour contracts and no real security. I took up a few but they often ended in a week or two, and then I had to go through the hassle of signing back on.

    There is a big attitude in Ireland that being on the dole = scrounger, even when we don't know the context or reason for it.


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    #20
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    It depends hugely on circumstances before you end up on it.

    If you've never worked and have been give the council house, the medical card, the fuel allowance, the back-to-school allowance and the christmas bonus for the long-term unemployed and know how to play your local CWO, you're on the pigs back.

    If you're renting privately or have a mortgage and lose a good job to end up on the basic job-seekers benefit without any of the add-ons that you're not entitled to until you've spent a year or more on welfare, it's a miserable existence.

    It's probably tolerable enough if you're a young person still living in Mammy and Daddys and without any real responsibilities.


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    #21
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    I went on the dole as well when the recession it.
    Think I got something like 366e a week.. there abouts anyway.
    I hated it. I couldn't stand the weekly trip to the post office and standing in line to get the payment.
    It was demeaning and I desperately wanted to work again but there was either nothing that met their expectations or there just wasnt anything.
    I was on it for about 8 months until I finally started to go back to normality.
    I told no one I was on it, I was embarrassed and ashamed I had been reduced to it.
    That's the downside for me.


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    #22
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    A downside for child benefit is that it invariably is not used for the child's benefit. It can become an additional income for those making ends meet as is.


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    #23
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It depends hugely on circumstances before you end up on it.

    If you've never worked and have been give the council house, the medical card, the fuel allowance, the back-to-school allowance and the christmas bonus for the long-term unemployed and know how to play your local CWO, you're on the pigs back.

    If you're renting privately or have a mortgage and lose a good job to end up on the basic job-seekers benefit without any of the add-ons that you're not entitled to until you've spent a year or more on welfare, it's a miserable existence.

    That what i mean . Your 1st instance, is there a downside ?


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    #24
    Rhyme
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 8,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rhyme


    What struck me when I was on the dole for a few months (between jobs, moved back home while looking) was that everything I could afford with the handouts was someone elses money. I personally found it intolerable that for every bus ticket, every shirt and tie bought for an interview, for everything, I was putting my hand into other peoples pockets. I wasn't buying that train ticket, someone else was paying for it. Did voluntary work so I at least felt like I was earning my keep and eventually got a proper job. Am now married, have a career and got very lucky in house-hunting.

    Looking back now I understand that I was misguided. That the doles purpose was to pay for those tickets and interview clothes. The dole is the means to get a job.

    I find the prospect of living on the dole an extremely sad one. Your mind turns to mush and your thoughts twist in on themselves so you're either convinced that things are fine or you've got one over on the Government and aren't you awful smart. I would imagine that a good amount of the people who queued up with me to collect their dole are in this life and will never work again.


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    #25
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    That what i mean . Your 1st instance, is there a downside ?
    Your children are unlikely to ever have a better existence and are far more likely to end up with drink/drug problems, teenage pregnancies or end up incarcerated.


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    #26
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    The hours were great, but the pay was shite.

    The department of social protection is preoccupied with massaging the figures and getting people off their books and onto schemes like Turas Nua, Tús, etc, thus giving the impression that our unemployment rates are lower than they truly are. Which makes the job-seeking process particularly soul-destroying. The days of getting a perfunctory response to a job application appear to be over. Took me three months and hundreds of CVs before I found anything. And I had savings, so I was very fortunate. With interviews, etc, I was spending a lot more than €193 per week.


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    #27
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I think you need to differentiate between ending up on social welfare and starting out on social welfare.

    Ending up on it is the upside, thats what its there for, to help you out when things go wrong.

    Starting out on it is the downside, its what causes people to become entitled and not want to work.


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    #28
    smileyj1987
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭smileyj1987


    Been on it for 9 months myself and it was killer , the lack of motivation and all that goes along with having no money really had me lost for a few of those months. I hope to never end up in that position , but it did bring one positive it made me go back to college and get an Honours Degree in IT management.


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    #29
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Downside? How about the constant dole-bashing threads in AH where people seem unable to distinguish between the vast majority of recipients who actually don't want to be in that position, and the reletively tiny minority who make it a lifestyle choice? That was definitely one.


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    #30
    nothing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭nothing


    Society constantly looking down on you, regardless of what benefits you claim - being on disability but being tarred as the same small percentage of scroungers there are. Having to carefully budget for everything, try to save tiny amounts all year to ensure you don't come off as cheap at Christmas/birthdays/weddings etc. Making sure you don't end up in debt when you just want to do normal stuff like one weekend away in a year, or buying decent shoes/coat, or if the washing machine breaks. Trying not to end up in a crap sleep pattern which can impact on illness, motivation, routine. Trying to have a social life (not even drinking, just meeting friends for lunch or coffee) without having to turn down so many invites that they stop coming.

    This is while being on disability, having a medical card, a travel pass, renting from council, getting household benefits, so deemed as a proper sponger. No fancy car, no holidays even in Ireland (unless visiting a grandparent for a few days counts), no alcohol, no smoking, no kids. It's a struggle to stay out of debt. It's not living, it's surviving.

    Anyone who thinks those on the dole have some kind of easy life, have never looked closely at what it's really like long term, or the crippling debt it can easily lead to.

    It erodes the soul.

    https://forumofgames.com/



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    #31
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Rhyme wrote: »
    What struck me when I was on the dole for a few months (between jobs, moved back home while looking) was that everything I could afford with the handouts was someone elses money.

    You paid PRSI and income tax when working which goes towards paying the welfare budget, if you pay into the system and fall on hard times then youve no need to feel guilty.
    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Downside? How about the constant dole-bashing threads in AH where people seem unable to distinguish between the vast majority of recipients who actually don't want to be in that position, and the reletively tiny minority who make it a lifestyle choice? That was definitely one.

    The dole bashing threads on here during the recession were awful. I felt sorry for those reading them who were on the dole genuinely looking for work. It was like further kick in the guts to be labelled as dole scroungers when they just wanted to work. But the reactionary right on After Hours will always find a way to kick a man while he is down.


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