Obnoxious Coworker

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 9:28am #1

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Weltsmertz · 22-09-2019 10:44am

Could you post a link to the thesis so we can read it?

Augme · 22-09-2019 12:30pm

There's not much you can do if your manager is have give the okay for him to be involved.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 12:44pm

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Could you post a link to the thesis so we can read it?

Hahaha he would love it. Probably would ask for your email address too so he can send daily reminders 😂😂

Augme wrote: »

There's not much you can do if your manager is have give the okay for him to be involved.

I honestly don't even know why he did that to be honest. As does no one in my team....

studdlymurphy · 22-09-2019 12:45pm

Maybe the manager wants him included so he can spy on what really goes on on your team so that he can improve it, possibly all this is outlined in his thesis that nobody will read even though he is giving you all ample opportunity to have access to?

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 12:49pm

studdlymurphy wrote: »

Maybe the manager wants him included so he can spy on what really goes on on your team so that he can improve it, possibly all this is outlined in his thesis that nobody will read even though he is giving you all ample opportunity to have access to?

We've read the thesis which is related to his background and nothing to do with the company or what we do. Also the manager is a member of our slack team and attends all our meetings hence he doesn't need to "spy" on what we do.

willabur · 22-09-2019 12:51pm

Have a chat with your manager in your next 1-1. My guess is that because the guy is so new in the company he doesn't want to come down on him so soon or he is oblivious so far to the annoyance he is causing.

In the meantime just refer the dude to your manager any time he crosses the line

boombang · 22-09-2019 12:53pm

Get him to do a presentation on his thesis to you and your colleagues. Have a raft of questions ready that make it plain that it's not relevant and he's not a data scientist. He should get the message.

bcklschaps · 22-09-2019 12:56pm

OP, maybe this guy is just enthusiastic. Give him a few tasks and see how he gets on. If he screws up. Well then everybody will have learnt a valuable lesson.

If he does OK, then hey....one more pair of hands to carry the load.

If a lad came into my workplace and offered to do some of my work.... I'd be thrilled.

noel1980 · 22-09-2019 12:59pm

Stay professional and do what's best for the outcome of the project you're working on. If he's being obnoxious don't let him drag you down to his level.

If this guy is as smart as he says he is, you'll soon work something out so the project can progress in a successful direction.

If he turns out to be a dumbass, he'll soon get found out and be kicked off the project.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 1:00pm

boombang wrote: »

Get him to do a presentation on his thesis to you and your colleagues. Have a raft of questions ready that make it plain that it's not relevant and he's not a data scientist. He should get the message.

We didn't do this but we did add a comment under his post saying "Thanks for your input. Although it was an interesting read we don't feel its relevant to what we do as Data Scientists"

TimeToShine · 22-09-2019 1:17pm

If your manager included him in the team and team meetings then you, as a junior data scientist 2 months into the job, are effectively a prepubescent child in the corporate world and you have no right to deny him access to any information because he "isn't a data scientist". For all you know he and his manager have probably discussed this in their 1-2-1 as part of his development plan and agreed that the best way to learn is consistent exposure via meetings, access to projects and the like.

To be honest you sound a bit like an arrogant spring chicken yourself with the "you're not a data scientist" stuff, the guy wants to learn so hand him a few coding tasks and leave him be, when you have a bit of experience and someone approaches you looking to "do your tasks" you'll be chomping at the bit to hand them over.

splinter65 · 22-09-2019 1:20pm

boombang wrote: »

Get him to do a presentation on his thesis to you and your colleagues. Have a raft of questions ready that make it plain that it's not relevant and he's not a data scientist. He should get the message.

This is a great idea, honestly, you’ve made me laugh out loud!

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 1:30pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

If your manager included him in the team and team meetings then you, as a junior data scientist 2 months into the job, are effectively a prepubescent child in the corporate world and you have no right to deny him access to any information because he "isn't a data scientist". For all you know he and his manager have probably discussed this in their 1-2-1 as part of his development plan and agreed that the best way to learn is consistent exposure via meetings, access to projects and the like.

To be honest you sound a bit like an arrogant spring chicken yourself with the "you're not a data scientist" stuff, the guy wants to learn so hand him a few coding tasks and leave him be, when you have a bit of experience and someone approaches you looking to "do your tasks" you'll be chomping at the bit to hand them over.

I am not allowed to give anyone access to the database and could be fired for doing so and i told him this and sent him to the people responsible for giving access rights, he failed all their tests. He couldnt even do a simple SQL query.

As I stated in my post I offered to help him a programming language and he just used it to try and make me read his thesis again. Before you go accusing anyone of being arrogant at least inform yourself of the situation.

Tea drinker · 22-09-2019 2:07pm

cinnamony wrote: »

2 months ago a Civil Engineer joined the Marketing team .... and after pestering my manager that he is very knowledgeable in the field he was added to our slack group. .. Later that day he scheduled a meeting with me, honestly I didnt want to go but did out of courtesy

During this meeting he kept asking me what tasks I'm doing, what tasks I haven't done yet. I ask him why he would need to know this and he says
"Well I don't want to do the tasks you've done already so I thought maybe I could do your other tasks"
I tell him my tasks are related to the data team and as he is not a Data Scientist I cannot share them with him. He then asks me to give him access to the database and I told him I don't have the permission to do that.

My manager isnt helping at all by allowing him access to our slack team and even gave him permission to join our next meeting despite the fact he has no knowledge of the industry at all.

Thank you!

Does your manager know what he (your manager) is supposed to be doing as manager? Does he know what the new staff member should be doing?
Sounds like the manager is not managing the new joiners introduction to the company very well, or whomever is the line manager of the new joiner is doing a poor job. In as much as feasible he/she should be introduced to different areas of the company and encouraged to learn and contribute.
Within reason.
Without a deep knowledge of your profession I would hazard to guess a marketing employee should be contributing little in your area.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 2:45pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

Does your manager know what he (your manager) is supposed to be doing as manager? Does he know what the new staff member should be doing?
Sounds like the manager is not managing the new joiners introduction to the company very well, or whomever is the line manager of the new joiner is doing a poor job. In as much as feasible he/she should be introduced to different areas of the company and encouraged to learn and contribute.
Within reason.
Without a deep knowledge of your profession I would hazard to guess a marketing employee should be contributing little in your area.

To be honest I'm not sure. We had a team member who was constantly missing work or not showing up without explanation, my manager would complain about it to us and ask us if we knew anything. He did this for 6 months then the higher ups got involved and my manager was lucky not to lose his job but the other guy was fired, had no one got involved however my manager would have allowed it as he honestly too nice and hates saying no or criticising anyone.

He doesn't really speak to us at all even during meetings so we basically just work amongst ourselves (Junior and Senior Data Scientists) and also with Information Security and the Development team.

Following the introduction ot GDPR the field of Data Science/Analytics became even more regulated than it used to be and since we deal with highly sensitive data there are protocols in place for who gets what tasks and what access rights. Not following these protocols constitutes a serious breach of security so I can't just go giving people access to data or tasks simply because they ask. The marketing department has nothing to do with us and the people in charge of giving access rights have established he doesnt have the knowledge required to be granted such access and its not required for his role. Basically his role is to create presentations for the marketing team.

But even after this he keeps asking me to give him my access credentials and tasks..

FrankPoll. · 22-09-2019 2:46pm

I'm not getting the obnoxiousness from the post

22-09-2019 2:46pm

It sounds like he is both insecure and arrogant.

Arrogant in that he has decided he wants to do data science without being hired for it or having any obvious skill in it.
Insecure as he knows he can't do it so brings up his thesis to show he is smart.

It sounds like pestering has worked for him so far so he won't stop now.

Why is this your problem OP?
Has your manager given him to you to babysit?
Is it formal in any way?
If not be polite but try and fob him off on someone else.

Edit: if the data is sensitive and the people in charge of it have said no but he is still asking for your credentials then you have to put a stop to it.

You have to explicitly tell him no and that if he keeps asking that you will escalate it.
If your manager is useless pick someone else like the people who decides manager if possible.

You should probably report him to your boss regardless to cover yourself.

Giving those credentials or even asking for them could be enough to get you or him sacked if as you say the information is sensitive.

Stop trying to manage this yourself - he isn't interested- escalate it.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 3:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It sounds like he is both insecure and arrogant.

Arrogant in that he has decided he wants to do data science without being hired for it or having any obvious skill in it.
Insecure as he knows he can't do it so brings up his thesis to show he is smart.

It sounds like pestering has worked for him so far so he won't stop now.

Why is this your problem OP?
Has your manager given him to you to babysit?
Is it formal in any way?
If not be polite but try and fob him off on someone else.

Edit: if the data is sensitive and the people in charge of it have said no but he is still asking for your credentials then you have to put a stop to it.

You have to explicitly tell him no and that if he keeps asking that you will escalate it.
If your manager is useless pick someone else like the people who decides manager if possible.

You should probably report him to your boss regardless to cover yourself.

Giving those credentials or even asking for them could be enough to get you or him sacked if as you say the information is sensitive.

He just constantly targets only me so its not a problem with my manager passing him onto me or anything, its his doing.

But there is absolutely no way I will give him any access or tasks and risk my job, Id prefer to not speak with his manager since I dont want him to get into trouble and if he is genuinely curious i dont want him to lose that curiosity but there are rules in place and he isn't going about it the right way and I'm running out of ways to explain to him that it simply isnt something within my control so he may leave me no choice...

22-09-2019 3:23pm

He is targeting you as an easy mark because you are young, junior and female.

Not wanting to get him in trouble is just going to encourage him.

Hang him out to dry - you aren't going to make a friend but that sounds like a good thing to me.

22-09-2019 3:34pm

Who hired this guy? And for what purpose? He's some kind of structural engineer in a team of data scientists... Which would be fine if he was smart and willing to learn all about Data Science - but he drones on about his thesis and contributes nothing. He sounds like an eternal student to me.

Give him some work to do as the others said and express your concerns to the manager.

Rubberchikken · 22-09-2019 4:57pm

maybe your manager cant deal with him either and has effectively pawned him off on your team.
some managers are unwilling to deal with an issue/colleague.

this man also sounds insecure and seemingly blind if he cant see that people arent interested//impressed with his thesis.

OMM 0000 · 22-09-2019 5:24pm

He sounds frustrating but harmless.

Personally I'd talk to the manager about this - in a lighthearted way - to see if it can be resolved.

Still waters · 22-09-2019 5:30pm

What role is he employed to do, and why would a company that deals in data science take on a civil engineer?

noel1980 · 22-09-2019 5:41pm

cinnamony wrote: »

He just constantly targets only me so its not a problem with my manager passing him onto me or anything, its his doing.

There was a time in one of our meetings where he said it would be best if we worked together as I have "the skills" and he has "the knowledge" and that since I'm the only woman in the IT department it must be hard for me and it would be best if he spoke on my behalf.

If he's constantly targeting *only* you and actually saying and doing these things... you have a good case to go to HR as it sounds like harassment.

Clearly he is bothering you and he needs to know his boundaries. It may be difficult, but you probably should speak to him frankly, in private first, and tell him how he's bothering you.

He probably doesn't perceive himself this way. If he doesn't back off and respect boundaries, you have a good case for HR.

It sounds like your manager is business-only and isn't the kind to work out personal differences between co-workers, and if you go to him, he'll probably tell you to go to HR anyway. I'm assuming your company has a HR. dept of course.

These situations can be difficult, I hope it works out for you.

TimeToShine · 22-09-2019 5:42pm

cinnamony wrote: »

I have been in the field 3 years and in this job 8 months, you obviously have no idea what a Data Scientist does and why not everyone can do this job. I am not allowed to give anyone access to the database and could be fired for doing so and i told him this and sent him to the people responsible for giving access rights, he failed all their tests. He couldnt even do a simple SQL query.

As I stated in my post I offered to help him with R (a programming language) and he just used it to try and make me read his thesis again. Before you go accusing anyone of being arrogant at least inform yourself of the situation.

I know exactly what a data scientist does thank you very much, please don’t go acting like you are providing some kind of niche service that nobody else can learn or benefit from. The matter remains that this guy was hired for a reason and been included in your team meetings for a reason. You seem extremely reluctant to share information because it is “too complex” and beneath his ability whereas the manager seems to disagree. There is a likelihood that his manager is clueless but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to the superior in this case.

Granted the thesis stuff is annoying but I have a feeling we aren’t getting the full story, in an alternate universe this guy is posting on boards about how unwelcoming and snobbish his new team is because of his previous experience and how little they are doing to help him integrate.

Also to add, there is no way a junior in any organization is able to dole out server access or any kind of access for that matter. In any company you’d need to provide reasons for access and have it signed off on by a senior manager if not multiple people in the chain of command.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 6:47pm

TimeToShine wrote: »

I know exactly what a data scientist does thank you very much, please don’t go acting like you are providing some kind of niche service that nobody else can learn or benefit from. The matter remains that this guy was hired for a reason and been included in your team meetings for a reason. You seem extremely reluctant to share information because it is “too complex” and beneath his ability whereas the manager seems to disagree. There is a likelihood that his manager is clueless but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to the superior in this case.

Granted the thesis stuff is annoying but I have a feeling we aren’t getting the full story, in an alternate universe this guy is posting on boards about how unwelcoming and snobbish his new team is because of his previous experience and how little they are doing to help him integrate.

Also to add, there is no way a junior in any organization is able to dole out server access or any kind of access for that matter. In any company you’d need to provide reasons for access and have it signed off on by a senior manager if not multiple people in the chain of command.

It doesn't sound like you do considering you are constantly antagonizing me for not giving him access and acting like I'm evil and yet go on to say yourself that a junior can't give access rights.

Pick your side.

Either I am a Junior that can't give access rights

Or I'm an evil witch that doesn't want him to integrate in the team for some unknown reason.

Strumms · 22-09-2019 6:48pm

You manager should ‘manage’ the new employee. I would encourage that they would attend one of these meetings in an observational capacity, but have their remit both as regards their job title and invite clearly defined. ie. say nada and any questions direct them via email afterwards. They are not being invited to participate but only to observe.

In my old job we allowed a busy body in sales to spend a ‘buddy’ day with us.... I knowing their personality was not in favor and even though this individual saw about 25% of what we did, a single operation of which no two were the same , despite the multifaceted challenges we faced etc was then off emailing senior managers about how we could show more flexibility and push out cutoffs to help customers etc... never thinking of the impact on safety (airline industry), staff members ability to complete jobs 100% accurately etc...

So roles need to be defined, people can be informed but an arms length from the actual action is desired for trouble makers especially who will take and run with the tag line ‘well I was there, I saw and they CAN’. Seeing and understanding are two different things.

cinnamony · 22-09-2019 6:49pm

Still waters wrote: »

What role is he employed to do, and why would a company that deals in data science take on a civil engineer?

He was hired to create presentations and stuff, to be honest I think he would be better off in a civil engineering role as I can only assume the reason why he talks about his thesis so much is because he genuinely loves that field.

mariaalice · 22-09-2019 6:58pm

He might have some issue with interpersonal relationships or communication and does not realise the way he is coming across, particularly the way he wants eveyone to look at his masters thesis.

Strumms · 22-09-2019 7:05pm

I would think the mention of a masters thesis is to insert some sort of control or create an illusion of knowledge or academic validity as to what they have to say about what they observed. 100% bogus.

Obnoxious Coworker

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