Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

Fr_Dougal · 21-02-2020 2:17pm #1

From today’s Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/harris-agrees-with-psni-that-army-council-still-oversees-both-sinn-féin-and-ira-1.4180689

The Garda “does not differ” from the PSNI’s analysis that the Provisional Army Council still oversees both Sinn Fein and the IRA, Garda Commissioner Drew Harris has said.
At a Garda passing out ceremony for 200 new members of the force in the Garda College, Templemore, Co Tipperary, Mr Harris confirmed the Garda’s view of the relationship between the Provisional Army Council, the IRA and Sinn Fein was the same as the PSNI.
“I am aware of the PSNI and British security service’s assessment and we do not differ from that view,” Mr Harris said.

The report further stated that the Provisional Army Council still strategically oversaw both the IRA and Sinn Fein.

So that’s the official stance of An Gardai, the PSNI, and the UK government.

I wonder how people feel about our government being potentially overseen by the Provisional IRA Army Council.

All the experts agree that, as Gerry Adams put it, “they haven’t gone away you know”.

Nijmegen · 21-02-2020 2:19pm

inb4 "Drew RUC Harris" and whataboutery brigade arrives.

Gatling · 21-02-2020 2:22pm

Is anyone actually surprised .

I'm sure Mary Lou will come out and say she's firmly in control of SF when the truth is she has next to no power in SF

ChikiChiki · 21-02-2020 2:31pm

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

Earthhorse · 21-02-2020 2:35pm

Not helpful to whom?

Nijmegen · 21-02-2020 2:38pm

Judging by the comments of self-professed millennials online, I actually think they don't care. It's "all in the past" etc.

quokula · 21-02-2020 2:42pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

I fear you might be correct that it's not helpful. As seen with Trump and Brexit, exposing truth and facts only helps in the narrative of wild conspiracy theories that the populists create. We increasingly live in a world where the only thing that matters is shouting the biggest lie the loudest, and Sinn Fein seem pretty adept at that.

21-02-2020 2:43pm

It is not mentioned in the IT article but the “Socialist Republic” that our “real government” in the Army Council seem to admire most is Venezuela. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...in-897352.html

This gives as good an indication as any as to what we can expect from economic policy and management, and from the rule of law, if their Sinn Fein front were to succeed in getting their hands on power here. That Socialist nirvana combined massive spending on social housing and healthcare, together with taxation and the creaming of company profits. Unfortunately the massive public spending resulted in widespread corruption and the enrichment of cronies while inflation soared to something like 1,000,000% in 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela

The national oil company (the cash cow) had so much profit and assets stripped off for government spending that it was unable to maintain its infrastrucure which is now malfunctioning and decrepit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDVSA

Meanwhile up to 6,000,000 people have fled the country (comparable to the Syrian civil war refugee numbers), while 90% of those remaining are reduced to poverty. Services barely function or don't function at all.
https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/con...-know-poverty/

On top of all this the rule of law has almost disappeared. Venezuela was rated 126 in the World Justice Projects' Rule of Law Index last year (that is out of 126!) and behind some stalwarts such as Afghanistan, Pakistan and Zimbabwe: https://worldjusticeproject.org/site...te_reduced.pdf

Fr_Dougal · 21-02-2020 2:43pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

I think SF are the ones doing the ‘hit job’.

Dessie Ellis TD, who topped the poll for Sinn Féin in the Dublin North-West constituency, is a convicted IRA bomb maker.

Martin Ferris, whose time as a Sinn Féin TD has just come to an end, was also a convicted IRA terrorist. Gerry Adams has also just concluded his time in the Dáil as a Sinn Féin TD and was widely regarded as a crucial figure at the top of the IRA, though he denied it. The aforementioned Conor Murphy MLA also has convictions for IRA membership and possessing explosives.

During the so-called cash for ash scandal in Northern Ireland, email correspondence within Sinn Féin as recently as 2017 showed the party’s then finance minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir seeking consent for decisions from senior Republicans, including those who have been senior IRA members.

Ó Muilleoir consulted Pádraic Wilson and Martin Lynch as he was considering signing off on a business plan to reduce subsidies in the renewable heating scheme, reducing its cost to the public.

Lynch was jailed for 10 years in 1982 for having a Soviet-made rocket launcher, rocket propelled grenades and firearms and was described in the Northern Assembly in 2001 as the then adjutant general of the IRA.

Wilson is a former leader of IRA prisoners at the Maze Prison where he served eight years on explosives charges. He was charged with IRA membership as recently as 2012, though never convicted. That charge related to his alleged role in so-called IRA kangaroo courts in 2002 into allegations made by two men who said they were sexually assaulted by an alleged member of the IRA.

The allegation, of unelected men effectively being the invisible power behind Sinn Féin in office, is likely to continue to dog the party.

riffmongous · 21-02-2020 2:44pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

Yep, just showing how out of touch and stupid the vast majority of the establishment are

Emmersonn · 21-02-2020 2:45pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Articles like this are not helpful.

Have to disagree with this statement. It is very helpful to those who do not want SF to be in goverment. And we all know who controls the media in Ireland.

Gatling · 21-02-2020 2:46pm

I wonder if like venezuela if SF think they will loose an election they will hand out AK47s to loyal Militias

Boggles · 21-02-2020 2:48pm

1641 wrote: »

It is not mentioned in the IT article but the “Socialist Republic” that our “real government” in the Army Council seem to admire most is Venezuela. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...in-897352.html

This gives as good an indication as any as to what we can expect from economic policy and management, and from the rule of law, if their Sinn Fein front were to succeed in getting their hands on power here. That Socialist nirvana combined massive spending on social housing and healthcare, together with taxation and the creaming of company profits. Unfortunately the massive public spending resulted in widespread corruption and the enrichment of cronies while inflation soared to something like 1,000,000% in 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela

The national oil company (the cash cow) had so much profit and assets stripped off for government spending that it was unable to maintain its infrastrucure which is now malfunctioning and decrepit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDVSA

Meanwhile up to 6,000,000 people have fled the country (comparable to the Syrian civil war refugee numbers), while 90% of those remaining are reduced to poverty. Services barely function or don't function at all.
https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/con...-know-poverty/

On top of all this the rule of law has almost disappeared. Venezuela was rated 126 in the World Justice Projects' Rule of Law Index last year (that is out of 126!) and behind some stalwarts such as Afghanistan, Pakistan and Zimbabwe: https://worldjusticeproject.org/site...te_reduced.pdf

So Capitalist Corruption ruined the country and not socialist polices.

Good you cleared that up.

We should go down the Norwegian route so.

We would need a shítload of oil to comparable to both though.

Oh well.

I see Conor Lally has 2 SF hit pieces today.

If this continues they could be looking at 55+ seats.

CrankyHaus · 21-02-2020 2:51pm

I don't particularly like SF or their past but every time I see this sort of stuff trotted out against them it just makes me decide to give them a preference somewhere on my ballot sheet.

They renounced violence to enter normal politics decades ago. People voted for them out of substantive concerns about issues like health and housing. Debate them on these issues instead of this film flam. The public deserves better than being treated like children with this sort of bogeyman politics.

I don't think I'm the only one who finds this counterproductive either.

irishgrover · 21-02-2020 2:52pm

I genuinely don't understand the "noise" with these kinds of stories....

SF have very very close links (and are probably still controlled by) a group of people who have made a living from murder, intimidation, extorsion, robbing banks, laundering diesel, stolen cash, drug dealing etc etc etc.

This is hardly f*(king news....

BanditLuke · 21-02-2020 2:52pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

Absolutely. People are thankfully much more educated now and can see how the system works. This will be a huge boost for SF.

suicide_circus · 21-02-2020 2:55pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

Absolutely. People are thankfully much more educated now and can see how the system works. This will be a huge boost for SF.

which system is this? the police?

quokula · 21-02-2020 2:55pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I don't particularly like SF or their past but every time I see this sort of stuff trotted out against them it just makes me decide to give them a preference on my ballot sheet.

Every time the Gardai point out that they're still strongly connected to / potentially run by violent criminals it makes you want to vote for them more?

James Brown · 21-02-2020 2:56pm

Earthhorse wrote: »

Not helpful to whom?

Not helpful to FF/FG. It smacks of bias and desperation.

Boggles · 21-02-2020 2:57pm

Seriously what absolute simpletons are pulling the strings at FF / FG HQ.

It's like they have learned nothing from a fortnight ago.

The more they attacked Sinn Fein the higher the polling numbers went.

It's not a complex algorithm to work out.

Get the media to print negative stories and go on boards.ie and start threads about them.

It's about as subtle as elephants scrotum.

:pac:

Feisar · 21-02-2020 2:57pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues. They will still return a majority if it goes to reelection.

Articles like this are not helpful.

How is it a hit job if true?

JohnnyFlash · 21-02-2020 3:00pm

If any other party had links to a paramilitary organisation then questions would rightfully be asked.

But because it’s SF we are expected to ignore this, or else it’s framed as being a hatchet job on them.

This is the top man in the Gardaí saying this.

Not a normal party.

Phoebas · 21-02-2020 3:02pm

And they've just added Gerry Adams to their negotiating team.

CrankyHaus · 21-02-2020 3:02pm

quokula wrote: »

Every time the Gardai point out that they're still strongly connected to / potentially run by violent criminals it makes you want to vote for them more?

No. Every time I see blatent attempts to manipulate the electorate I resent it, and am more inclined to react against it.

Pretending that the Troubles didn't happen and that peace didn't require accepting people with dodgy pasts into politics is simply ahistorical.

James Brown · 21-02-2020 3:02pm

quokula wrote: »

I fear you might be correct that it's not helpful. As seen with Trump and Brexit, exposing truth and facts only helps in the narrative of wild conspiracy theories that the populists create. We increasingly live in a world where the only thing that matters is shouting the biggest lie the loudest, and Sinn Fein seem pretty adept at that.

Exposing what? Sinn Fein have links to the IRA?

SF don't have the media working for them. The article in the Times, which has updated to remove the part about them having been inactive and signed up to peace now has a little footnote about Lyra McKee. Very disappointing. I knew the Indo was a joke.
How do you feel about living in a world were the people vote and the mechanics of the media and formerly two main parties work together to try undo it?
This is beyond SF. It's an attack on every SF/SD/PBP/Green voter.

Fr_Dougal · 21-02-2020 3:03pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Yep, just showing how out of touch and stupid the vast majority of the establishment are

Calling all the experts ‘stupid’ is fun.

suicide_circus · 21-02-2020 3:03pm

i'm not too interested whether the accusation is anti-SF propaganda.

is it true or not?

21-02-2020 3:04pm

Boggles wrote: »

So Capitalist Corruption ruined the country and not socialist polices.

Good you cleared that up.

We should go down the Norwegian route so.

We would need a shítload of oil to comparable to both though.

Oh well.

Well, I suppose you could put it like that. But only if you mean corrupt monoply state capitalism as practiced by the Maduro regime. The regime that SF seem to admire so much.

And a ****load of oil didn't do Maduro any good when his government's policies and mismanagement ran the state oil company into the ground. Oil being the countries biggest resource.
Well, the poor remaining citizens are all equal now. Equally impoverished and deprived of services. Not all of them though. The governing socialist cabal have creamd off their living very well. SF should know - they like to dine with them.

irishgrover · 21-02-2020 3:04pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i'm not too interested whether the accusation is anti-SF propaganda.

is it true or not?

assuming that this is a rhetorical question??

Kermit.de.frog · 21-02-2020 3:05pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hit job on SF continues.

Or maybe it's just true.

gormdubhgorm · 21-02-2020 3:05pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

inb4 "Drew RUC Harris" and whataboutery brigade arrives.

There seems to be no whataboutery in it. The 'ra are still there. It is not just Drew Harris that said it. The Gardai have said it. Brendan Howlin has said it recently.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/a-new-reality-faces-the-north--southern-hypocrisy-exposed-973925.html

The IMC said in 2008 that though the IRA had disbanded the IRA army council had not dissolved.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/sep/03/northernireland.ireland

Also Bhishop Daly spoke of Adams deviousness and untrustworthiness

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-was-at-most-no-3-on-ira-army-council-said-priest-1.3333574

Maria Cahill has constantly spoken of the IRA hierarchy in SF

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/16/rape-victim-mairia-cahill-speaks-out

I suppose all of these individuals and independent bodies are all wrong or liars on the issue?

Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

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