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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    He uses logic and common sense.

    At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury.

    But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest.

    They left home sometime before 1.30pm and were perfectly fine at 3.35pm they were spotted outside a fitness store.

    This slowest working military grade nerve agent ever made!


    You mean the police have more evidence now and what they thought initially was the timeline is not correct?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    seamus wrote: »
    The level of denialism to convince yourself of this is nothing short of amazing.

    Two people are found in a near-death state in a small park in a quiet part of London, poisoned, with no witnesses nor any trace of the poison.

    And you're surprised that it took this long to get CCTV images of the suspects? Are you fncking serious?

    We should be amazed they have anything at all.

    Are you pro-Russia, or do you just hate the Brits, so distrust them by default?

    They were found on a bench at around 4 pm or after 4.15pm the emergency services were made aware of two people acting strangely.

    If the novitchok was spayed on a doorknob why did it take 3 hours to react? The police timeline is they left home again before 1.30pm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    You mean the police have more evidence now and what they thought initially was the timeline is not correct?

    CTV shows the Skiprals arriving at the Mill pub at 1.40pm. They never returned home.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He uses logic and common sense.

    At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury.

    But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest.

    They left home sometime before 1.30pm and were perfectly fine at 3.35pm they were spotted outside a fitness store.

    This slowest working military grade nerve agent ever made!

    except he misses the bit where the agents also travelled to Salisbury the day before as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Aegir wrote: »
    except he misses the bit where the agents also travelled to Salisbury the day before as well.

    Who cares they were poisoned on the 4th of March and it alleged these two men sprayed the Novitchok on the door of their home

    The CTV clear shows them at the Mill Pub at 1.40pm and they left there to head to Zizzi Restaurant at 2.20pm. They spend an hour there. From there they were spotted out a fitness store at 3.35pm.

    Novitchok is supposedly 10 times deadlier than VX, yet they fine for hours.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    CTV shows the Skiprals arriving at the Mill pub at 1.40pm. They never returned home.


    perhaps you should take a look at the timeline. They arrived in the UK on March 2nd.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45429894


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,792 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    you've probably watched too much CSI.

    i only have to look at my phone to unlock it, you think they don't use facial recognition ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2smiggy wrote: »
    i only have to look at my phone to unlock it, you think they don't use facial recognition ?


    you should probably stick to watching tv shows.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    2smiggy wrote: »
    i only have to look at my phone to unlock it, you think they don't use facial recognition ?

    so you mean why can't they press a button and carry out facial recognition of all images taken on all cctv cameras in the uk like they do in the movies?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    perhaps you should take a look at the timeline. They arrived in the UK on March 2nd.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45429894

    They are just two guys they could be anyone. They could be Ukranian intelligence, Russian gangsters, patsies who knows. That they were spotted on March 2th is irrelevant.

    The alleged incident took place on the 4th of March. The Skiprals were clearly fine from 1.30pm to 4 pm. Somewhere between 3.30pm and 4 pm, they felt unwell that's obviously when the preparators made their move.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    They are just two guys they could be anyone. They could be Ukranian intelligence, Russian gangsters, patsies who knows. That they were spotted on March 2th is irrelevant.

    The alleged incident took place on the 4th of March. The Skiprals were clearly fine from 1.30pm to 4 pm. Somewhere between 3.30pm and 4 pm, they felt unwell that's obviously when the preparators made their move.


    so just a coincidence that they took a trip to salisbury on march 3 and march 4 and they just happened to walk past the skripals house? I honestly dont know i bother replying to you. a complete waste of time.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They are just two guys they could be anyone. They could be Ukranian intelligence, Russian gangsters, patsies who knows. That they were spotted on March 2th is irrelevant.

    The alleged incident took place on the 4th of March. The Skiprals were clearly fine from 1.30pm to 4 pm. Somewhere between 3.30pm and 4 pm, they felt unwell that's obviously when the preparators made their move.

    two guys who happen to be Russians and have had an international arrest warrant issued against them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    So, what you're saying cheerful, is that it could be absolutely anything but it couldn't possibly be the state lead by a President who said this?
    “Traitors will kick the bucket, believe me. Those other folks betrayed their friends, their brother in arms,” Mr Putin said.

    “Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”

    Yeah, pull the other one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Aegir wrote: »
    two guys who happen to be Russians and have had an international arrest warrant issued against them.

    The British police even said they could be using aliases. Which makes you wonder how they enter the country, like don't they need a VISA if they are from Russia? Therese May claims they are Russian but she ignoring what her out own police force said. They can't link these men to the Kremlin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,792 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    you should probably stick to watching tv shows.
    Aegir wrote: »
    so you mean why can't they press a button and carry out facial recognition of all images taken on all cctv cameras in the uk like they do in the movies?

    i don't know the extent of what they can do with facial recognition , but it's a bit naive to think they are not using it. For all i know it might be useless, or could work better than we would know. I just think 6 months is a long time to come up with these two 'suspects'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    so just a coincidence that they took a trip to salisbury on march 3 and march 4 and they just happened to walk past the skripals house? I honestly dont know i bother replying to you. a complete waste of time.

    There are discrepancies that you continually ignore and think it doesn't matter. The police have always stated the poisoning occurred at Skipral home. Skipral were travelling around Salisbury for hours and were fine and not unwell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2smiggy wrote: »
    i don't know the extent of what they can do with facial recognition , but it's a bit naive to think they are not using it. For all i know it might be useless, or could work better than we would know. I just think 6 months is a long time to come up with these two 'suspects'


    if you cant see the technological difference between unlocking a phone with a HD image of your face looking directly at it vs trying to facial recognition from hundreds (thousands?) of low res CCTV footage over a period of days where the suspects are not looking directly at the camera then i think you are better off sticking to CSI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,792 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    if you cant see the technological difference between unlocking a phone with a HD image of your face looking directly at it vs trying to facial recognition from hundreds (thousands?) of low res CCTV footage over a period of days where the suspects are not looking directly at the camera then i think you are better off sticking to CSI.

    low res ? in airports ? think you are the one that should stick to watching the tele


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2smiggy wrote: »
    low res ? in airports ? think you are the one that should stick to watching the tele


    Even if the camera is HD a persons face takes up only a small part of the image. So not only is the usable part of the image low res they first have to pick out all the parts of the image that actually are faces. And they have to do that 108,000 times for every camera for every hour of footage. do you have some idea now of the enormity of what they were trying to do?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,792 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    Even if the camera is HD a persons face takes up only a small part of the image. So not only is the usable part of the image low res they first have to pick out all the parts of the image that actually are faces. And they have to do that 108,000 times for every camera for every hour of footage. do you have some idea now of the enormity of what they were trying to do?

    probably not !! Just my opinion that the technology they have, and what we know about, are miles apart. I just think the 6 months to come up with the suspects is suspicious.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    2smiggy wrote: »
    probably not !! Just my opinion that the technology they have, and what we know about, are miles apart. I just think the 6 months to come up with the suspects is suspicious.


    Nah. You can see what the future of this kind of tech is if you look at the image processing research papers that come out. Anything in them is at least a few years from being practically implementable. It's too profitable (and surprisingly open) an area at the moment for governments to be able to lure experts away from the private sector to develop secret techniques.


    Proper police work will take time. This isn't reddit where they're going to blurt out the names of the first people they find with jackets that match the suspects descriptions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    2smiggy wrote: »
    probably not !! Just my opinion that the technology they have, and what we know about, are miles apart. I just think the 6 months to come up with the suspects is suspicious.
    Think about this logically.

    How would they even know who to be looking for?

    These are two guys out of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) who entered and left the UK through various ports over the weeks before and after the assassination.

    They also had no idea if the people who carried out the attack even entered the UK - they may have been resident.

    So step 1 is identifying anyone who may have been anywhere near the Skripals or their home in the 24-48 hours before they were discovered.

    How many people is that? Thousands? How do you find them? CCTV. Manually reviewing thousands of hours of CCTV footage and try and trace peoples' steps.

    Then at least you can start to build some kind of shortlist of likely suspects. From the perspective of investigators, these are just two guys walking near the house. Two randomers, you don't know who they are or where they're from. It could Tim and his brother Bob from down the road for all you know. You have to dilute down hundreds of Tims and Bobs and Alices, rule them out, before you can start to have a proper look at the two lads (and probably ten other suspects).

    This is where your facial recognition stuff might come in handy. Except that a shopfront CCTV unit is not going to be recording 1080p video at 24fps. So you need to track back. Review yet more footage to see if you can trace their movements backwards - every tube station and bus stop in a 5km radius, see where they came from.

    You find out what tube they get on. And track back again. Every tube stop on that line, where did they get on. When you find that, you have to track back from there to see if you know where they are or were staying.

    Remember at this stage you have two guys, you don't know who they are, but you have determined that they were near the Skripal's home at the time, you've probably found the evidence of them recc'ing the station the previous day, and you've tracked them back to a hotel.

    It's at this point that things speed up. These are people of interest, you know who and what you're looking for, so where to look becomes easier.

    But think about how long it takes to get to that point.

    You can wax lyrical about facial recognition, but how do you look for faces in a crowd when you don't even know what those faces look like?

    Chances are they've had a fix on these guys for the last 2-3 months but have been gathering additional evidence to make sure there wouldn't be egg on their face.

    The unfortunate poisoning of the two British people would also have been of immense help since it not only told police how the agent had been stored and delivered, but also gave them an idea of where it was disposed, so they could use that to further implicate the suspects.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Venom wrote: »
    I doubt the full truth regarding this attack will ever come out but it's funny how everytime May is taking hits over her handling of Brexit, this story pops up again in the news.

    May has been taking hits on brexit for about every week of the last two years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If the novitchok was spayed on a doorknob why did it take 3 hours to react? The police timeline is they left home again before 1.30pm.
    Are you a chemist? Or a toxicologist? Are you intimately familiar with Novichok and how it reacts?

    No, I didn't think so. And neither is anyone else whose opinion you've read on this, and how it "couldn't be Novichok because they didn't fall ill for 3 hours".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    2smiggy wrote: »
    you've probably watched too much CSI.

    i only have to look at my phone to unlock it, you think they don't use facial recognition ?
    Biometric cameras aren't standard issue...


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,543 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Some people need to bone up on China's facial recognition system and the one Singapore is installing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Oh for godsake all the usual nonsense on this subject

    "Well if it was Novichok they'd be dead" - Dosage.
    "Yeah well it could have been the UK or another country" - The bulk of evidence so far clearly points to only one administration and country
    "How come it took them so long to find the suspects" - It's not a series of CSI Miami, they likely had to trawl through hundreds of thousands of hours of footage, then perform countless crosschecks, etc
    "I don't trust the Brits" - But trust the Kremlin right
    "Where's all the evidence is was these guys" - With the investigators, they release what they decide to make public
    "I think it's an inside job" - Cool, provide the evidence
    "I'm incredulous because I personify and hate one country in particular so I feel the need to defend it's opponents against all reason and logic" - Can't help you there

    Nothing is for sure, hence the term "highly likely". There are no other "highly likely" suspects in this case, not even close.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 arcticthistle


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Oh for godsake all the usual nonsense on this subject

    "Well if it was Novichok they'd be dead" - Dosage.
    "Yeah well it could have been the UK or another country" - The bulk of evidence so far clearly points to only one administration and country
    "How come it took them so long to find the suspects" - It's not a series of CSI Miami, they likely had to trawl through hundreds of thousands of hours of footage, then perform countless crosschecks, etc
    "I don't trust the Brits" - But trust the Kremlin right
    "Where's all the evidence is was these guys" - With the investigators, they release what they decide to make public
    "I think it's an inside job" - Cool, provide the evidence
    "I'm incredulous because I personify and hate one country in particular so I feel the need to defend it's opponents against all reason and logic" - Can't help you there

    Nothing is for sure, hence the term "highly likely". There are no other "highly likely" suspects in this case, not even close.

    "Nothing is for sure"?

    No there are many things that are very much absolute and "for sure"

    "Highly likely" could just as easily be said as "highly unlikely" or "My BFF told me"

    Facts are needed and facts that are provable. If that is too "so yesterday" for you then you might want to stop discussing anything, specifically if you think "highly likely" means SLAM DUNK


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    They are just two guys they could be anyone. They could be Ukranian intelligence, Russian gangsters, patsies who knows. That they were spotted on March 2th is irrelevant.

    The alleged incident took place on the 4th of March. The Skiprals were clearly fine from 1.30pm to 4 pm. Somewhere between 3.30pm and 4 pm, they felt unwell that's obviously when the preparators made their move.

    Yeah. They are just two Russian guys enjoying a romantic break in Salisbury. If they were Ukrainian intelligence why has Russia not come out and said that and asked for them to be arrested for using fake Russian passports?

    Oh wait.. They came from and went home to.. Russia.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,795 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    "Nothing is for sure"?

    No there are many things that are very much absolute and "for sure"

    "Highly likely" could just as easily be said as "highly unlikely" or "My BFF told me"

    Facts are needed and facts that are provable. If that is too "so yesterday" for you then you might want to stop discussing anything, specifically if you think "highly likely" means SLAM DUNK

    Russian facts or Western facts. The free media in the West scrutinise every fact whereas the Russian media just believe Putin as it's seriously dangerous not to.


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