Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Golf is my Game · 21-06-2020 6:34pm

fullstop wrote: »

McIlroy shoots 65 on Sunday to get in the top 5 - “standard backdoor finish from McIlroy when the pressure is off”

McIlroy shoots 72 on Sunday when already out of the tournament - “standard Sunday collapse from McIlroy”

:rolleyes:

I dont thing thats correct. The top one yes, but the mediocre or, loosing relative to the field 72 type score usually only comes when he is incontention on the last day, but needs a good one to make up ground.
The Sunday 65 to drag himself from 45th to 8th is classic McIlroy though.

fullstop · 21-06-2020 6:38pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

I dont thing thats correct. The top one yes, but the mediocre or, loosing relative to the field 72 type score usually only comes when he is incontention on the last day, but needs a good one to make up ground.
The Sunday 65 to drag himself from 45th to 8th is classic McIlroy though.

Did you read the post above mine?!

Mantis Toboggan · 21-06-2020 6:52pm

fullstop wrote: »

McIlroy shoots 65 on Sunday to get in the top 5 - “standard backdoor finish from McIlroy when the pressure is off”

McIlroy shoots 72 on Sunday when already out of the tournament - “standard Sunday collapse from McIlroy”

:rolleyes:

Haha that's bang on the money, he'll be blamed either way.

Golf is my Game · 21-06-2020 7:21pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Haha that's bang on the money, he'll be blamed either way.

Thats not the case. The second option there doesnt happen. He bombs out of tournaments in the first two rounds normally, not in the last round. Nobody 'blames' him for shooting 72 when he is out of it. He isnt noticed either way. Looks like your trying to get your defence of him in for something he doesnt really get criticised for. Bombing out spectacularly in one of the first two rounds, maybe or maybe not then making the cut, and if he does, when he cant win anyway, he shoots something really great which shows how good he is. but only when it doesnt really matter. Which isnt to say he hasnt shot great rounds and one. Just the above pattern is too much a Rory trademark at this stage.

Mantis Toboggan · 21-06-2020 7:41pm

Happy4all wrote: »

an early double bogey on a Par 3 has probably put pay to that

Yeah needed to hit the ground running was always going to be unlikely.

ankles · 21-06-2020 8:03pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Thats not the case. The second option there doesnt happen. He bombs out of tournaments in the first two rounds normally, not in the last round. Nobody 'blames' him for shooting 72 when he is out of it. He isnt noticed either way. Looks like your trying to get your defence of him in for something he doesnt really get criticised for. Bombing out spectacularly in one of the first two rounds, maybe or maybe not then making the cut, and if he does, when he cant win anyway, he shoots something really great which shows how good he is. but only when it doesnt really matter. Which isnt to say he hasnt shot great rounds and one. Just the above pattern is too much a Rory trademark at this stage.

Let's firstly agree these comments are out of frustration that a man with all the talents doesn't close the deal enough. I for one would love to see him win a lot more regularly. But typical Rory, if he's in or around contention after Day 2 he will tread water or go backwards on day 3, then shoot a 65 on the final day for a top 5 finish. If he barely makes the cut he'll do the reverse. Not always, but far too often

GreeBo · 22-06-2020 8:58am

fullstop wrote: »

Not sure what point you’re making here?

McIlroy has made 87% of cuts to Nicklaus’ 84% and Tiger’s 90%. So he is up with Woods and Nicklaus in terms of consistency?

They have all played way more tournaments then he has, including the start and end of their careers, Rory is in his prime, apparently.

Whiplash85 · 22-06-2020 3:42pm

Mcilroy is entering a critical period in his career now. He has 4 majors which on the face of it looks like an underachievement but when you see some of those without like Rickie Fowler you realise how hard it is to win one. But eventually life will take over with maybe wanting to start a family and all that entails. Its hard to believe his last major was 6 years ago. His ball striking especially off the tee is phenomenal but just lacks ability to plot his way around the golf course and stopping himself from being too aggressive.

First Up · 22-06-2020 3:57pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Mcilroy is entering a critical period in his career now. He has 4 majors which on the face of it looks like an underachievement but when you see some of those without like Rickie Fowler you realise how hard it is to win one. But eventually life will take over with maybe wanting to start a family and all that entails. Its hard to believe his last major was 6 years ago. His ball striking especially off the tee is phenomenal but just lacks ability to plot his way around the golf course and stopping himself from being too aggressive.

He leads the World Golf Rankings and is third in the Fedex Cup. He must be doing some things right some of the time.

[Deleted User] · 22-06-2020 3:59pm

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Mcilroy is entering a critical period in his career now. He has 4 majors which on the face of it looks like an underachievement but when you see some of those without like Rickie Fowler you realise how hard it is to win one. But eventually life will take over with maybe wanting to start a family and all that entails. Its hard to believe his last major was 6 years ago. His ball striking especially off the tee is phenomenal but just lacks ability to plot his way around the golf course and stopping himself from being too aggressive.

Caddie?

paddythere · 22-06-2020 4:01pm

Mcilroy lacks the ambition to truly fulfil his potential as far as I can see. He needs to hire a decent caddie and stop laughing/smiling when he has a bogey.

Remind me · 22-06-2020 5:12pm

paddythere wrote: »

Mcilroy lacks the ambition to truly fulfil his potential as far as I can see. He needs to hire a decent caddie and stop laughing/smiling when he has a bogey.

Jesus Christ can people please give over on the caddie. Harry is an international golfer who has won major amateur events.

What qualifies someone to be a good caddy? DJ has his brother, Reed his brother in law, Speith a former school teacher, Sergio his brother, list goes on.

Ronan Flood got dogs abuse when he started on Harrington's bag, he can now walk around having caddied for him in 3 majors.

Top players know what they want and what is best for them.

I'd much rather see a player laugh off a bogey than bash a green like Hatton or de Chambeau.

rooney30 · 22-06-2020 7:53pm

paddythere wrote: »

Mcilroy lacks the ambition to truly fulfil his potential as far as I can see. He needs to hire a decent caddie and stop laughing/smiling when he has a bogey.

New caddie and a face like a spanked arse after every bogey will unlock his potential . You could be onto something here . Have you considered letting him know ?

Benny Cake · 22-06-2020 7:59pm

paddythere wrote: »

Mcilroy lacks the ambition to truly fulfil his potential as far as I can see. He needs to hire a decent caddie and stop laughing/smiling when he has a bogey.

If a sour puss won you a major I'd have 174 by now

neddynasty · 22-06-2020 8:51pm

paddythere wrote: »

Mcilroy lacks the ambition to truly fulfil his potential as far as I can see.

I would see it as the opposite. To me, the rounds he shoots low to mid 60's he's free flowing and it's all coming naturally. When he shoots the 70+ rounds he looks like he's trying too hard to recreate/replay in his head the 65 from the day before. He does that because he wants to win and nothing else matters at this stage in his career. He has trouble getting into the zone for 4 straight rounds but again that comes back to trying too hard.

People say when the pressure is on he bottles it or throws away another tournament. He doesn't feel pressure from other players, it all comes from within himself.

Seve OB · 22-06-2020 10:34pm

I wonder how many of the so called caddies out there on the PGA and European tours actually went to Caddy college and what kind of degree they got. I guess if we had their exam results we would be able to see who the good ones really are.

Golf is my Game · 22-06-2020 10:46pm

Seve OB wrote: »

I wonder how many of the so called caddies out there on the PGA and European tours actually went to Caddy college and what kind of degree they got. I guess if we had their exam results we would be able to see who the good ones really are.

Exactly. The only thing that matters for a caddy is if their man is achieving his potential. The only evidence we have to judge Harry is that his man is undoubtedly underachieving. I dont think anyone could seriously make a case that Rory risks doing worse if he lost him. So changing caddy is a no brainer really. It could only be up. And just the act of changing something, like that, could be a but of gear change for him.

The bottom line though is that Rory is just not competitive enough to maximise his talents. Seve was so competitive that it came against him - he simply got too hyped up for majors. But that not the case with Rory. Sure he badly badly wants to win. But there is a difference between desperately wanting it and being a real competitor. Some people are some people arent. In fact, he is probably the least skilled competitor of the 4+ major winners group that hes in. Which speaks so much for his talent. Effectively he wins despite being a poor competitor. He lacks that real focused dedication to get the job done. A killer instinct. Not just a desire to win, but a mental attitude that tries to bend the outcome to the one he wants at all costs. Any other great golfer, and a hell of lot of lesser lads, would ditch Harry. Enough of the friends. Just hire a competant experience caddy.

Seve OB · 22-06-2020 10:58pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Exactly. The only thing that matters for a caddy is if their man is achieving his potential. The only evidence we have to judge Harry is that his man is undoubtedly underachieving. I dont think anyone could seriously make a case that Rory risks doing worse if he lost him. So changing caddy is a no brainer really. It could only be up. And just the act of changing something, like that, could be a but of gear change for him.

The bottom line though is that Rory is just not competitive enough to maximise his talents. Seve was so competitive that it came against him - he simply got too hyped up for majors. But that not the case with Rory. Sure he badly badly wants to win. But there is a difference between desperately wanting it and being a real competitor. Some people are some people arent. In fact, he is probably the least skilled competitor of the 4+ major winners group that hes in. Which speaks so much for his talent. Effectively he wins despite being a poor competitor. He lacks that real focused dedication to get the job done. A killer instinct. Not just a desire to win, but a mental attitude that tries to bend the outcome to the one he wants at all costs. Any other great golfer, and a hell of lot of lesser lads, would ditch Harry. Enough of the friends. Just hire a competant experience caddy.

Just in case you didn’t spot the tongue stuck in my cheek

Harry is a competent experienced caddy.

Golf is my Game · 22-06-2020 11:05pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Just in case you didn’t spot the tongue stuck in my cheek

Harry is a competent experienced caddy.

Sorry, yes.

Sure, hes experienced. But there is no evidence he is bringing anything to McIlroy. The only concensus is that Rory is underachieving. SO changing caddy is hardly likely to be damaging to Rorys chances. And has some chance of helping him. So worth a shot. You could say, its only majors that matter to him now. But like I said, maybe its not even that. He just doesnt want it badly enough. So the lads who would sell their grannies for a putt in a major are always likley to leave him behind, especially when there no shortage of contender like now. Saying that, Rory is probably the more stable and balance person for all that. Just not a 7-8-9 major winner level that his ball striking is capable of.

Mantis Toboggan · 22-06-2020 11:08pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Sorry, yes.

Sure, hes experienced. But there is no evidence he is bringing anything to McIlroy. The only concensus is that Rory is underachieving. SO changing caddy is hardly likely to be damaging to Rorys chances. And has some chance of helping him. So worth a shot. You could say, its only majors that matter to him now. But like I said, maybe its not even that. He just doesnt want it badly enough. So the lads who would sell their grannies for a putt in a major are always likley to leave him behind, especially when there no shortage of contender like now. Saying that, Rory is probably the more stable and balance person for all that. Just not a 7-8-9 major winner level that his ball striking is capable of.

How is he underachieving?

rooney30 · 22-06-2020 11:12pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Exactly. The only thing that matters for a caddy is if their man is achieving his potential. The only evidence we have to judge Harry is that his man is undoubtedly underachieving. I dont think anyone could seriously make a case that Rory risks doing worse if he lost him. So changing caddy is a no brainer really. It could only be up. And just the act of changing something, like that, could be a but of gear change for him.

The bottom line though is that Rory is just not competitive enough to maximise his talents. Seve was so competitive that it came against him - he simply got too hyped up for majors. But that not the case with Rory. Sure he badly badly wants to win. But there is a difference between desperately wanting it and being a real competitor. Some people are some people arent. In fact, he is probably the least skilled competitor of the 4+ major winners group that hes in. Which speaks so much for his talent. Effectively he wins despite being a poor competitor. He lacks that real focused dedication to get the job done. A killer instinct. Not just a desire to win, but a mental attitude that tries to bend the outcome to the one he wants at all costs. Any other great golfer, and a hell of lot of lesser lads, would ditch Harry. Enough of the friends. Just hire a competant experience caddy.

Can’t see how it’s a no brainer to ditch Diamond . PGA win percentage is identical under Diamond as it was under Jp , 10.4 % He has also gone back to world number 1 with Diamond
By your logic he should have ditched JP earlier too. Who is this genius caddy who will lead him to Jacks major record

Remind me · 22-06-2020 11:37pm

I get why people might not like him, I get why people say he is an underachiever in majors which he has acknowledged himself but people thinking they know what he thinks, wants and needs is ridiculous.

rooney30 · 22-06-2020 11:43pm

Remind me wrote: »

I get why people might not like him, I get why people say he is an underachiever in majors which he has acknowledged himself but people thinking they know what he thinks, wants and needs is ridiculous.

Agreed . The most sensible post on this thread for quite some time

fullstop · 24-06-2020 12:09am

GreeBo wrote: »

They have all played way more tournaments then he has, including the start and end of their careers, Rory is in his prime, apparently.

Ok sound. Didn’t realise Tiger was at the end of his career, but thanks for the heads up. Hope he got the memo. I assume you haven’t counted McIlroy’s early career record, seeing as that’s a mitigating factor in favour of the other players?

Dav010 · 24-06-2020 4:11am

fullstop wrote: »

Ok sound. Didn’t realise Tiger was at the end of his career, but thanks for the heads up. Hope he got the memo. I assume you haven’t counted McIlroy’s early career record, seeing as that’s a mitigating factor in favour of the other players?

Few would think Tiger is at anything but at the end stage of his stellar career, particularly considering what he has said himself about being unable to play much due to injury. Doubt he needs the memo, he’s a clever guy.

Mysterypunter · 24-06-2020 4:43am

fullstop wrote: »

Ok sound. Didn’t realise Tiger was at the end of his career, but thanks for the heads up. Hope he got the memo. I assume you haven’t counted McIlroy’s early career record, seeing as that’s a mitigating factor in favour of the other players?

Tiger is at the end of his career, maybe 2-3 good years left, you can't turn the clock back. The PGA tour is a ridiculously high standard, considering how many players are on it, the top 50 players in the world be a massive achievement, Rory is unquestionably an elite golfer. The comments on this thread indicate a vitriolic level of jealousy at worst, and a petty level at best. Even when Shane Lowry won the open, there were a few comments, someone who knows nothing about golf said to me that the real Irishman won the open. I wouldn't be his biggest fan, but all the bull****, talked about Rory is mostly not of his own making, on the other hand, he should keep quiet about other players, when he said Molinari and Fleetwood are not committed to their careers because they didn't travel to the states for the resumption, how is that anything to do with him? Rory has a good few years left in the game, but what he does now will be interesting, because at past 30 years old, the motivation might drop, and that could begin a downward slide. This week the travellers championship course will be right up his street, and I predict a high finish, he should be right in contention.

Dav010 · 24-06-2020 7:42am

Why do posters assume that you must dislike Mcillroy if you question his play and comments to the media?

I don’t know the guy, don’t like him nor dislike him, I like watching him, sometimes it is brilliant golf, sometimes car crash stuff, always entertaining.

But I don’t agree with what he says sometimes and I think he buckles too often for such a talented player. I don’t claim to know what he thinks, in fact I haven’t read a post where someone claimed to know what he thinks, but that doesn’t mean you can’t have an opinion on his concentration and course management during his rounds, some of the shots/scores are open to such analysis and opinions, the fact that it happens so often is a problem he has acknowledged himself when he said he should have won more given the opportunities he gave himself.

I don’t know how important caddies are, or if they are more important to some players than to others. Certainly it was obvious that Bo played a part in Lowry’s win, you could literally hear him telling him what to do/not do, some players have also acknowledged how important a part their caddies played (even someone as self loving as Faldo gave Fanny the praise she deserved), I can’t remember which golfer said that all he wanted his caddie to do was turn up on time and carry the bag, so it isn’t uncommon for the quality and importance of a caddie to be commented on given that they do play some part in proceedings.

Besides which, as this is a discussion forum, all posters are not required by Boards.ie to have the same/positive opinions, why some get so offended when something negative is posted, is a strange phenomenon on this thread.

GreeBo · 24-06-2020 11:41am

fullstop wrote: »

Ok sound. Didn’t realise Tiger was at the end of his career, but thanks for the heads up. Hope he got the memo. I assume you haven’t counted McIlroy’s early career record, seeing as that’s a mitigating factor in favour of the other players?

Lordy.
1) I didn't say he was specifically at the end of his career, I said the stats included the start and end of their careers. Rory's only includes the start and expected prime, unless you think he is finished?
2) Is your argument that Tiger is at his prime?:rolleyes:
3) I did count McIlroys early career record, just like I did for everyone else.
4) Why would I discount his but include theirs? Perhaps you would like if I was to just add his wins in a conversation about players bad rounds?

Fred_ · 24-06-2020 1:04pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Exactly. The only thing that matters for a caddy is if their man is achieving his potential. The only evidence we have to judge Harry is that his man is undoubtedly underachieving. I dont think anyone could seriously make a case that Rory risks doing worse if he lost him. So changing caddy is a no brainer really. It could only be up. And just the act of changing something, like that, could be a but of gear change for him.

The bottom line though is that Rory is just not competitive enough to maximise his talents. Seve was so competitive that it came against him - he simply got too hyped up for majors. But that not the case with Rory. Sure he badly badly wants to win. But there is a difference between desperately wanting it and being a real competitor. Some people are some people arent. In fact, he is probably the least skilled competitor of the 4+ major winners group that hes in. Which speaks so much for his talent. Effectively he wins despite being a poor competitor. He lacks that real focused dedication to get the job done. A killer instinct. Not just a desire to win, but a mental attitude that tries to bend the outcome to the one he wants at all costs. Any other great golfer, and a hell of lot of lesser lads, would ditch Harry. Enough of the friends. Just hire a competant experience caddy.

Underachieving?

The man has won 4 majors, World golf championships, World matchplay, Players championship, Wentworth PGA, Euro order of merit, 2 FedEx cups, US tour championship, Euro tour championship (DP World). He's played well in Ryder cups. All this during the most competitive era ever (depth of fields etc.)

He has won every big event in Europe and the US except the Masters. He has won events that critics would say don't suit his one dimensional bombers game (British Open, Players, Wentworth etc.).

How do you reconcile him being the least skilled 4 time major winner with being an underachiever?

What evidence is there that he lacks dedication? How could a man have won so much without a killer instinct?

What specifically about Harry makes him a bad caddie? Or not the right caddie?

You're opinions seem to lack any foundation in reality.

GreeBo · 24-06-2020 1:35pm

Fred_ wrote: »

Underachieving?

Yeah, he is underachieving if you think he is capable of winning more.
It seems you think ~4 majors is his level, so then in your eyes he is not under achieving.

I'm pretty sure he has said something in the past that he thinks he should have more majors.

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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