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Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

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13567…33

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    #62
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    They can crosscheck with Revenue and Social Welfare- and voter registers for good measure. Plus when the individual codes are activated in 2016, it'll be even easier.

    They've an check all they like. all that stuff for both myself and my partner go to our respective parents houses. We've moved apartments a lot in the last 4 years so it made more sense than having to be constantly changing address. We are also both registered to vote from our parents address. Check mate Phil.


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    #63
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Apartments will be flat rate metered- probably until 2018/2020
    Feasibility to meter them will commence in 2015- with perhaps 15-20,000 metered by the end of 2017.


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    #64
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jiminho


    I don't know about anyone else, but I for one find the charges extremely reasonable. No standing charge, free up to 30,000 litres per annum and a further 38,000 litres allowance for under 18. Taking out the calculator, it's possible (with some diligence) that a household might not need to pay any charges.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/150-litres-of-water-consumed-daily-by-every-person-245927.html

    I'm sure in two years time this will change but for the now, the charges are relatively minimal.

    I'll await Fine Gael to be voted back in and the charges to go up substantially!!


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    #65
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    jiminho wrote: »
    I don't know about anyone else, but I for one find the charges extremely reasonable. No standing charge, free up to 30,000 litres per annum and a further 38,000 litres allowance for under 18. Taking out the calculator, it's possible (with some diligence) that a household might not need to pay any charges.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/150-litres-of-water-consumed-daily-by-every-person-245927.html

    I'm sure in two years time this will change but for the now, the charges are relatively minimal.

    I'll await Fine Gael to be voted back in and the charges to go up substantially!!

    The average household would have to cut their current water usage fully in half, to avoid charges.


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    #66
    Meathlass
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Meathlass


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    They've an check all they like. all that stuff for both myself and my partner go to our respective parents houses. We've moved apartments a lot in the last 4 years so it made more sense than having to be constantly changing address. We are also both registered to vote from our parents address. Check mate Phil.

    Yeah same here. My official address is my parents house. The same for my other 4 housemates. There's no one registered to vote at our address, no one on social welfare and all bills in landlady's name. I don't think they'll be cross checking that information, don't see how it's feasible.


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    #67
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jiminho


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The average household would have to cut their current water usage fully in half, to avoid charges.

    If there any children in the house, they won't, but cutting your water usage by a half is not that difficult and with some clever (and small) changes to everyday living, it's definitely attainable.


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    #68
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    jiminho wrote: »
    If there any children in the house, they won't, but cutting your water usage by a half is not that difficult and with some clever (and small) changes to everyday living, it's definitely attainable.

    A 50% reduction in water usage- would be quite remarkable- without significant lifestyle changes. Aka- if you stopped bathing/showering at home, and only did so in work- and used whats known as grey-water toilets (essentially recycling dishwasher water to flush toilets with)- as happens in some other countries to conserve potable water- you'd get there. The average person is hardly going to do these things though........


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    #69
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jiminho


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    A 50% reduction in water usage- would be quite remarkable- without significant lifestyle changes. Aka- if you stopped bathing/showering at home, and only did so in work- and used whats known as grey-water toilets (essentially recycling dishwasher water to flush toilets with)- as happens in some other countries to conserve potable water- you'd get there. The average person is hardly going to do these things though........

    Sure, the average person probably won't do these things but adjusting certain items like: make your shower a low flow shower, adjusting toilets to be low flow, being more conscious at the tap etc. I think a lot of these small things will cut 50% of a person's ADD. Just my opinion, but I think it is attainable for the "average" household.


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    #70
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Apartments will be flat rate metered- probably until 2018/2020
    Feasibility to meter them will commence in 2015- with perhaps 15-20,000 metered by the end of 2017.

    How are they going to chase up those living in apartments who don't pay? will they be addressing bills to the "occupier" like is done with other utility bills and as they have no right to enter any property how will they recover any amount owed? will they be using the same debt collection agents used by the HSE to recover A&E and hospital fees?

    There are still too many unanswered questions about this charge that I can't see it ever being successful much like the previous incarnation of water charges failed for just about every county council in the country.


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    #71
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Simple- in cases where the occupier fails to pay- use the Revenue Commissioner's property database and bill the owner- and let the owner chase the occupier..........??


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    #72
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Simple- in cases where the occupier fails to pay- use the Revenue Commissioner's property database and bill the owner- and let the owner chase the occupier..........??
    Can a semi state company have access to that data? Can't imagine the data protection commissioner allowing them access.


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    #73
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Simple- in cases where the occupier fails to pay- use the Revenue Commissioner's property database and bill the owner- and let the owner chase the occupier..........??
    I don't know about the data protection angle on this but I would think charging someone for something they are not liable to pay would not stand up to any real test.


    I remember the Water charges in the 80's and the men from the council would make a bit of overtime and do the rounds of an estate in the very early hours(like thieves in the night) turning off water at addresses of those who had not paid. Later when this was noticed someone would go around to any house without water and turn on the supply if asked.

    Many of the type of householders that support Fine Gael would not do this and they would have paid their Water/refuse charges as soon as it fell due. It seems that Fine Gael are targeting their core membership and following with this charge but those who don't want to pay will have an easy time because they just ignore the bills and nothing will be done to them as is the case with most other Fine Gael/Labour ideas!


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    #74
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    even their described method of assessing apartments based on number of residents sounds very wishy-washy.


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    #75
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Will there be an appeals process for assessments?

    Who will be assessing the amount used where there is no meter? Will it be civil servants with no training or background in the relevant field as is the case with other important decisions made?(civil servants decide on a number of payments such as disability pension entitlement etc without the need to have any medical training or background!)

    Will questionnaires be issued to people who don't have a meter? If there is no meter how will any assessment be "fair" if it can't take actual usage into account?


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    #76
    Gandhi
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Gandhi


    Wouldn't the water company just default every property to the minimum free allowance? Then it would be up to the customer to prove they have X kids, Y adults and Z pensioners in the house to apply for the increased allowance?


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    #77
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Will there be an appeals process for assessments? Who will be assessing the amount used where there is no meter? will questionnaires be issued to people who don't have a meter? If there is no meter how will any assessment be "fair" if it can't take actual usage into account?
    For people who do get meters fitted after bills have been issued they will get a rebate if the usage is lower than had being guesstimated


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    #78
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    will questionnaires be issued to people who don't have a meter?

    I would hope so, it would be grossly unfair for someone out working a 40 hour week to pay the same as someone whose at home all day (for whatever reason) with unmetered billing.


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    #79
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    ted1 wrote: »
    For people who do get meters fitted after bills have been issued they will get a rebate if the usage is lower than had being guesstimated
    Hundreds of thousands will never hava a metered supply though.


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    #80
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Hundreds of thousands will never hava a metered supply though.

    They are supposed to be coming up with new metering systems for apartments- they're testing a few options at the moment.


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    #81
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    The assessed charge for unmetered homes will be purely based on number of occupants. All single adult households will pay the same rate. All 2 adult households will pay another higher fixed rate.

    On a metered property - it might be possible for a single person to keep within the free allowance and end up paying zero - but because the free allowance is per household and not per adult it will be pretty much impossible for couples or couples with adult children to get free water.

    Some useful information here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/water-charges-some-more-meaningful-figures.html


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    #82
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    so there's no incentive for me to conserve water until I'm metered then, because even though I'd probably be able to stay within the allowance with a bit of extra conservation, I'll be billed on the estimate of what a single wasteful occupant uses.


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    #83
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    the groutch wrote: »
    so there's no incentive for me to conserve water until I'm metered then, because even though I'd probably be able to stay within the allowance with a bit of extra conservation, I'll be billed on the estimate of what a single wasteful occupant uses.
    If bills are every quarter there's no incentive either as a bill that only shows total usage between 2 periods is useless with regards conservation methods as it doesn't show where the water is being used .


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    #84
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jiminho


    the groutch wrote: »
    so there's no incentive for me to conserve water until I'm metered then, because even though I'd probably be able to stay within the allowance with a bit of extra conservation, I'll be billed on the estimate of what a single wasteful occupant uses.

    Bingo!! but tbf, everyone in Ireland is wasteful with their water. Everyone will get metered eventually.


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    #85
    PeteK*
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭PeteK*


    PeteK* wrote: »
    What if it gets vandalised?
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    You report it (in the same way you'd report damage to your electricity or gas meter). Repair man is dispatched, and its repaired/replaced.
    Yeah but will you still have water?


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    #86
    olliesgirl55
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭olliesgirl55


    This has got to be the most confusing saga ever. If you don't have a meter they will be charging you based on estimated usage? So the estimate is 240 per year per household or per person? If it's per person that is very steep 20 per month. I can't wait to see whats going to happen in August when they roll out the fee schedule.


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    #87
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,247 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Seanachai wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about it too much, I predict that the Irish government will collapse by summer next year. It will be replaced by a true republic citizens council that will reject stealth austerity taxes and the water meter units will be ripped from their safe underground burrows for a national ceremony where they will be jammed up the rectums of various politicians.

    I also predict that after the world is brought to the brink of nuclear war by a cabal of psychopaths and their obedient lapdogs people will have just had enough and after joint efforts between different countries those held responsible will be packed into space craft on a one way journey into space.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Will there be an appeals process for assessments?

    Who will be assessing the amount used where there is no meter? Will it be civil servants with no training or background in the relevant field as is the case with other important decisions made?(civil servants decide on a number of payments such as disability pension entitlement etc without the need to have any medical training or background!)

    Will questionnaires be issued to people who don't have a meter? If there is no meter how will any assessment be "fair" if it can't take actual usage into account?

    This is Accommodation & Property. On-topic please.

    Moderator


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    #88
    stooge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭stooge


    If I were living in an apartment I'd be looking at ways to sell tanks of water to those living in houses e.g, hose pipe over a wall to the neighbours :) No incentive to conserve water and no way to know how much you use exactly, so why not bottle it up and sell it at a cheaper rate?


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    #89
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    Some more figures on expected metered water bills here -

    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/metered-water-charges-how-much-will-they-be.html

    According to this a single person using the widely quoted average of 150l a day (55000 lt a year) will be charged about €77 a year on a meter but €195 without a meter.


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    #90
    PeteK*
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭PeteK*


    28wm32p.png


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    #91
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    jiminho wrote: »
    Bingo!! but tbf, everyone in Ireland is wasteful with their water. Everyone will get metered eventually.

    Both statements are untrue.


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