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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

24567…335

Comments

  • #32
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Former Coach wrote: »
    I agree Podge. I don't think Joe will be underestimating either of these teams given that he will have a number of very inexperienced guys on board. Japan have proven to be a match for the best and I can't really see USA rolling over!

    Just for the record, I'm reading this post and all future posts of yours in Eddie O'Sullivans voice. :D


  • #33
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    We desperately need to develop better players at 11, 14 and 15. The fact that we have no lions in those positions is telling. We are extremely lacking there compared to most other tier one nations.

    It would therefore be a completely wasted opportunity if some combination of Kearney, Trimble, Earls and Zebo makes up our back 3 in the Japan tests. I would not bring Kearney and Trimble at all.

    There is plenty of experience and leadership elsewhere in Healy, Cronin, Toner, Ruddock, Jackson


  • #34
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Former Former wrote: »
    Rob Kearney isn't even back training for Leinster yet, two weeks before the squad departs. I can't see it happening.

    But if he does get fit, he'll be picked. And why not, frankly.

    Because with Zebo, Conway and TOH (and Carbery) he wouldn't be needed

    Donnacha Ryan, TOD, Trimble, McFadden and Rob Kearney are the established, available players I don't see the need to bring


  • #35
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Kearney is part of the leadership group, head of the players' union, a Lions candidate. If he's fit, he's travelling. No question about that whatsoever.

    But I do question whether or not he's fit. Seems to be injured a lot these days.


  • #36
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,665 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Former Former wrote: »
    Rob Kearney isn't even back training for Leinster yet, two weeks before the squad departs. I can't see it happening.

    But if he does get fit, he'll be picked. And why not, frankly.

    Why is he needed? It's a chance to see other players play at fullback. When do we try out new players if not on a summer tour v low grade teams.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Kearney will travel for the same reasons that POC travelled a few years ago


  • #38
    scrights
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 99 ✭✭scrights


    Surely Billy Holland won't travel given his limited potential/age and young options that have emerged.


  • #39
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    phog wrote: »
    Why is he needed? It's a chance to see other players play at fullback. When do we try out new players if not on a summer tour v low grade teams.

    Well , when do we give young up and coming players the chance to learn from the leaders in the Irish group if not on summer tours. The players would probably learn more from training with these guys than they would from games against the USA. The coaches as well, they're probably looking to see how they do off the pitch more than on it.

    Then you also have to think about when any of these young guys will actually be needed at senior level. It's silly to just throw a bunch of uncapped guys together for the sake of it. They'll be coming in and playing alongside these senior guys if they're needed. So for example if Stockdale is going to play on the wing for Ireland, it'll help if he is used to the back 3 he's playing beside, and playing outside Ringrose. Or if Porter is needed to bench at tighthead it'll help if he's used to scrummaging with Cronin/Scannell. Or whatever other combination.

    Also I think in reality we have our depth at fullback sorted from Zebo/Payne. It's really the wing where we need players to come through, specifically the right wing, so I'm really keen for Byrne/Stockdale/Sweetnam to travel as they're genuinely likely to be contenders for starting places straight away.


  • #40
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    I assume the Irish team is being named at 12 noon, the day of departure...?

    (provided that all other countries have already named their squads for June)


  • #41
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    phog wrote: »
    Why is he needed? It's a chance to see other players play at fullback. When do we try out new players if not on a summer tour v low grade teams.

    I absolutely agree we should try out new players.

    This is the drum I've been beating for weeks now. We have a group of established players who will go. We have a group of new players who I believe should go.

    And we have a group of players who are neither new nor established who I believe should not go. Picking Kearney, or Trimble, or Earls, or all three, does not mean Stockdale and Byrne have to lose out.


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  • #42
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,665 ✭✭✭✭phog


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well , when do we give young up and coming players the chance to learn from the leaders in the Irish group if not on summer tours. The players would probably learn more from training with these guys than they would from games against the USA. The coaches as well, they're probably looking to see how they do off the pitch more than on it.

    Then you also have to think about when any of these young guys will actually be needed at senior level. It's silly to just throw a bunch of uncapped guys together for the sake of it. They'll be coming in and playing alongside these senior guys if they're needed. So for example if Stockdale is going to play on the wing for Ireland, it'll help if he is used to the back 3 he's playing beside, and playing outside Ringrose. Or if Porter is needed to bench at tighthead it'll help if he's used to scrummaging with Cronin/Scannell. Or whatever other combination.

    Also I think in reality we have our depth at fullback sorted from Zebo/Payne. It's really the wing where we need players to come through, specifically the right wing, so I'm really keen for Byrne/Stockdale/Sweetnam to travel as they're genuinely likely to be contenders for starting places straight away.
    Former Former wrote: »
    I absolutely agree we should try out new players.

    This is the drum I've been beating for weeks now. We have a group of established players who will go. We have a group of new players who I believe should go.

    And we have a group of players who are neither new nor established who I believe should not go. Picking Kearney, or Trimble, or Earls, or all three, does not mean Stockdale and Byrne have to lose out.

    Fine bring him to be there on the training paddock but not to play the games bar injury crisis.


  • #43
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 12,999 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Because those were genuinely competitive games at a level Ryan has never played before. The "Munster game" was an development nothing game. The result of which didn't matter a damn to anyone.

    The result of the Glasgow or Ulster game didn't matter either, Leinster had secured a home SF before them both


  • #44
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I think people are going to be disappointed in relation to the back three progress made in the short term. We have a good few options in that area. I don't think the coaches are going to view it as an area in desperate need of attention. Payne, Zebo, Kearney and Earls will occupy those spots comfortably. Then there are a number of guys who are capped and the coaches would be comfortable with having on the bench in the 6N as we've seen already.

    I think we might see one young player become a real option over the next year, starting this summer. Another may tour this summer also but I don't believe the coaching team see the need there as much as most punters do and there are going to be some disappointed fans.

    They'll have a much stronger eye on lock, No. 8, outhalf and inside centre I reckon. Those are the areas that, if we suffer a single injury, we're going to be in difficulty in terms of depth.


  • #45
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    The IRFU make a decent wedge for every Lion. I can't imagine them allowing any player who has been told they might be injury cover to be left behind as that would decrease chances of a call up.


  • #46
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kearney is part of the leadership group, head of the players' union, a Lions candidate. If he's fit, he's travelling. No question about that whatsoever.

    But I do question whether or not he's fit. Seems to be injured a lot these days.

    You forgot central contract (above half a mill) ,face of marketing too (aer lingus)

    He has no recent form, has been injured, will be the wrong age in 2019, and has no chance of lions call up. Fine if he goes, but if Kearney, Trimble, Earls, McFadden go...we have a massive problem.


  • #47
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Healy, Cronin, Toner, Ruddock, Heaslip, Jackson, Zebo, Earls - there's enough "established" players traveling
    Then lads like Kilcoyne, Marmion, JvdF, Marshall, TOH, Roux who been around the squad for a while and travelled to SA last year


  • #48
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Healy, Cronin, Toner, Ruddock, Heaslip, Jackson, Zebo, Earls - there's enough "established" players traveling
    Then lads like Kilcoyne, Marmion, JvdF, Marshall, TOH, Roux who been around the squad for a while and travelled to SA last year

    Is Heaslip travelling? If not, then the only other leader there is Ruddock really.

    The only real question is whether or not Kearney is fit. If he is, he's going.


  • #49
    RichieRich89
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 511 ✭✭✭RichieRich89


    Could Trimble not still be around for the next World Cup? He'll turn 35 in October 2019. That would be quite old for a wing, but he isn't showing any obvious signs that age is catching up with him yet - unlike Kearney.

    With the quality Payne brings to the 15 shirt, and Zebo and O'Halloran also playing well at fullback over the last few seasons, I think phasing out RK is probably the best thing to do. I wouldn't take him on tour


  • #50
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Then lads like XXXXX who been around the squad for a while and travelled to SA last year

    I don't want to make this about specific players, but if guys have been around the squad for a while and can't get traction, then it's time to move on from them.


  • #51
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Kearney really made strides in his ground-based attacking game this season under Leocaster, I think if he returns to fitness he could offer our most balanced full-back option for another few seasons.


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  • #52
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I'd be surprised if RK is on the Lions standby list. Liam Williams was selected as a winger but is an established fullback who can play there if needed. Watson and Nowell cover 15 too I think.


  • #53
    typhoony
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Former Former wrote: »
    I don't want to make this about specific players, but if guys have been around the squad for a while and can't get traction, then it's time to move on from them.
    define "traction"


  • #54
    KBurke85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭KBurke85


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Kearney really made strides in his ground-based attacking game this season under Leocaster, I think if he returns to fitness he could offer our most balanced full-back option for another few seasons.

    It could be a big if based on the past few years.


  • #55
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Former Former wrote: »
    I don't want to make this about specific players, but if guys have been around the squad for a while and can't get traction, then it's time to move on from them.

    Wait wait wait
    That makes zero sense to me
    We always go on about "players need to learn Joe's systems"
    This is the perfect time to use those players who are familiar with the Irish set up but haven't got opportunity to play


  • #56
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    I would personally leave out Gilroy and Luke Marshall. Both have seriously stagnated and I don't think either are ever going to become regular internationals. Would much rather Stockdale, Byrne, O'Loughlin or Sweetnam to travel ahead of them.


  • #57
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Wait wait wait
    That makes zero sense to me
    We always go on about "players need to learn Joe's systems"
    This is the perfect time to use those players who are familiar with the Irish set up but haven't got opportunity to play

    If this were Twitter I'd sticky this:

    Players SHOULD tour on developmental tours such as this one to the USA/Japan if:

    - They are fit, available first team players.
    - They are fit, available players who have not yet reached their ceiling (this includes completely experimental young lads through to guys like Marmion/VDF).

    Players should NOT tour on developmental tours such as this one to the USA/Japan if:

    - They have hit their ceiling, have been in camp several times, and have not done enough to establish themselves amongst the best players in their position (Roux, Bent).


  • #58
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,331 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Buer wrote: »
    I think people are going to be disappointed in relation to the back three progress made in the short term. We have a good few options in that area. I don't think the coaches are going to view it as an area in desperate need of attention. Payne, Zebo, Kearney and Earls will occupy those spots comfortably. Then there are a number of guys who are capped and the coaches would be comfortable with having on the bench in the 6N as we've seen already.

    I think we might see one young player become a real option over the next year, starting this summer. Another may tour this summer also but I don't believe the coaching team see the need there as much as most punters do and there are going to be some disappointed fans.

    They'll have a much stronger eye on lock, No. 8, outhalf and inside centre I reckon. Those are the areas that, if we suffer a single injury, we're going to be in difficulty in terms of depth.

    Can't really accept this. Only Italy have a worse back three than Ireland in the six nations, if this isn't seen as an area of weakness by the IRFU then that's pretty bizarre. If our back three were a colour they'd be biege. Bland, boring and unimaginative.

    Back three and lock are comfortably the worst areas of our team.


  • #59
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Wait wait wait
    That makes zero sense to me
    We always go on about "players need to learn Joe's systems"
    This is the perfect time to use those players who are familiar with the Irish set up but haven't got opportunity to play

    I think this "he knows the systems" thing is always thrown up by people looking for an explanation as to why their preferred player was not picked.

    I don't think it has any basis in fact at all. I certainly think it's a load of bollocks.


  • #60
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Former Former wrote: »
    I think this "he knows the systems" thing is always thrown up by people looking for an explanation as to why their preferred player was not picked.

    I don't think it has any basis in fact at all. I certainly think it's a load of bollocks.

    Used by people to explain inclusion of McFadden in squads mainly


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  • #61
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Used by people to explain inclusion of McFadden in squads mainly

    Last time, all I saw was people using it jokingly to make fun of other people who didn't exist.


This discussion has been closed.
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