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Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Brewster wrote: »
    Also, for the moment it’s all about playing for Ulster. Ireland is irrelevant. It could be while before Paddy would get back into an Ireland squad. Surely the initial discussion is all about Ulster? Perhaps some people are missing this point? One doesn’t give an entitlement to the other....

    It's not about Ulster at all. As others have mentioned, IRFU will make the choices, and that will be that. But even if they didn't, and Ulster were free to make different decisions, IRFU are the ones who control the central contracts, and there is no chance that Jackson is going to stick around with no central contract on the table. Therefore it still comes back to what the IRFU choose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    MJohnston wrote: »
    It's not about Ulster at all. As others have mentioned, IRFU will make the choices, and that will be that. But even if they didn't, and Ulster were free to make different decisions, IRFU are the ones who control the central contracts, and there is no chance that Jackson is going to stick around with no central contract on the table. Therefore it still comes back to what the IRFU choose.

    Ulster won't be able to sign a player against the IRFUs wishes. The IRFU have final say on all player contracts, not only central contracts. Otherwise the whole Pienaar situation wouldn't have happened, or Munster not being allowed sign Stephen Moore.

    If the IRFU decides that they don't want the two lads to be part of their organisation, representing their brand and their sponsor's brands, that'll be the end of it. They'll either pay out the remainder of their contracts, or let them sit it out until next May when they expire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Ulster won't be able to sign a player against the IRFUs wishes. The IRFU have final say on all player contracts, not only central contracts. Otherwise the whole Pienaar situation wouldn't have happened, or Munster not being allowed sign Stephen Moore.

    If the IRFU decides that they don't want the two lads to be part of their organisation, representing their brand and their sponsor's brands, that'll be the end of it. They'll either pay out the remainder of their contracts, or let them sit it out until next May when they expire.

    I'm not sure you actually read my post!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I'm not sure you actually read my post!

    I may be taking advantage of Good Friday and the pubs being open.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Has there been any update on McPhillips and his potential move?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    I may be taking advantage of Good Friday and the pubs being open.

    Lol. .Enjoy :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,977 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Ulster won't be able to sign a player against the IRFUs wishes. The IRFU have final say on all player contracts, not only central contracts. Otherwise the whole Pienaar situation wouldn't have happened, or Munster not being allowed sign Stephen Moore.

    If the IRFU decides that they don't want the two lads to be part of their organisation, representing their brand and their sponsor's brands, that'll be the end of it. They'll either pay out the remainder of their contracts, or let them sit it out until next May when they expire.

    Given the circumstances Ulster will be afforded some latitude with regard to replacements.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Elvisjuice


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    The Twitter mob are going out on the streets and gaining a lot of media attention. 30000 people signing a petition online demanding the IRFU conduct a review even though they already announced they would be.

    Jackson and Olding are finished for Ulster and Ireland.

    why are they finished they were found not guilty , who gives a **** what the twitter and ****book mongs are bleeting about


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    Elvisjuice wrote: »
    why are they finished they were found not guilty , who gives a **** what the twitter and ****book mongs are bleeting about

    Sponsors and like it or not the games fuked without them


  • Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭Ludikrus


    Elvisjuice wrote: »
    why are they finished
    Because money talks and sponsors don’t want to be associated with any of this unsavoury business.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Elvisjuice


    Ludikrus wrote: »
    Because money talks and sponsors don’t want to be associated with any of this unsavoury business.

    what sponsors are you talking about ? Drink sponsors don't think they can say fu ck all


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Elvisjuice wrote: »
    what sponsors are you talking about ? Drink sponsors don't think they can say fu ck all

    They certainly can. But there's a whole lot more than just alcohol companies:
    http://www.irishrugby.ie/irfu/sponsors.php


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭torqtorq


    I find it hilarious that these companies might have a say in PJ and SO.

    Volkswagen
    Has been caught tampering with their diesel cars emission control systems such that in the real world the tailpipe nitrous oxide emissions are many times the allowable levels. This has resulted in the death of thousands of people.
    To date in USA they have been fined billions of dollars in fines.

    Ulster Bank
    Forever being fined for shady practices.
    Central Bank's fine of €3.3m imposed for breaches of anti-money-laundering protocols.
    In actual fact, Ulster bank is the most fined financial institution in Ireland. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ulster-bank-is-most-fined-financial-institution-in-ireland-1.2850427

    That these companies should be held up as paragons of virtue is laughable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭torqtorq


    A couple more of Ireland's virtuous sponsors

    Vodafone
    Vodafone fined €250000 by the telecoms regulator, Comreg, for incorrectly charging 250000 Irish pay-as-you-go customers when they traveled abroad.
    Vodafone fined £4,625,000 by Ofcom in UK for serious and sustained breaches of consumer protection rules.
    Vodafone fined €951,000 euro by Comreg for incorrect charges on 1520, 1580 and 1590 numbers.

    Guinness
    Guinness Nigeria fined 5 million dollars relating to the destruction and re-validation of expired raw materials.
    Marketing targeting young people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Zzippy wrote: »
    There are many more who don't hate rugby but feel strongly about this case as an example of a broken system/misogny/etc. If enough of these people target sponsors the IRFU certainly will care. On the other hand, other cases have proven that this kind of thing does die down. Ched Evans is back playing Championship football in England, for instance.

    I like this board, and I don't want to be ostracised. But I will say it. If you need to count a rugby fan among those voices you can count me. I won't watch Ireland with either of them playing. In my WhatsApp groups and my friends circle that sentiment is strong. It'll kill me because I live and breathe rugby, but I can't do it. A girl left their house bleeding and in tears while they laughed and joked at her expense - while at least one of them definitely knew how upset she was. 4 stories that simply cannot all be true were told to a court under oath.

    There may not be enough to convict any single one of them, fine. They have their liberty. But rugby culture has to change, and pretending this never happened will not help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Zzippy wrote: »
    There are many more who don't hate rugby but feel strongly about this case as an example of a broken system/misogny/etc. If enough of these people target sponsors the IRFU certainly will care. On the other hand, other cases have proven that this kind of thing does die down. Ched Evans is back playing Championship football in England, for instance.

    I like this board, and I don't want to be ostracised. But I will say it. If you need to count a rugby fan among those voices you can count me. I won't watch Ireland with either of them playing. In my WhatsApp groups and my friends circle that sentiment is strong. It'll kill me because I live and breathe rugby, but I can't do it. A girl left their house bleeding and in tears while they laughed and joked at her expense - while at least one of them definitely knew how upset she was. 4 stories that simply cannot all be true were told to a court under oath.

    There may not be enough to convict any single one of them, fine. They have their liberty. But rugby culture has to change, and pretending this never happened will not help.

    I second that with the added unexplained internal 1cm laceration caused by blunt force trauma being particularly hard to ignore for me. That is a fact but is not proof enough of non consent.

    Those companies can be the worst villians on the planet, they have the money and want to get the best return in terms of marketing and PR that they can get for their sponsorship. It's irrelevant if they canibalise babies, they have money and are paying the irfu for a service. That service is not as premium if the irfus image is tarnished, so it's worth less money.




  • errlloyd wrote: »
    I like this board, and I don't want to be ostracised. But I will say it. If you need to count a rugby fan among those voices you can count me. I won't watch Ireland with either of them playing. In my WhatsApp groups and my friends circle that sentiment is strong. It'll kill me because I live and breathe rugby, but I can't do it. A girl left their house bleeding and in tears while they laughed and joked at her expense - while at least one of them definitely knew how upset she was. 4 stories that simply cannot all be true were told to a court under oath.

    There may not be enough to convict any single one of them, fine. They have their liberty. But rugby culture has to change, and pretending this never happened will not help.

    There is nothing wrong with this opinion and nothing wrong with having doubt.

    That said none of the stories added up and I include the complainant in that.

    The jury studied the evidence for 9 weeks and didn't see enough to convict and the one independent person in the room who was closer to this than anyone said she didn't believe she saw a rape.

    That may not be enough for everyone, but it gives me enough doubt to give the defendants the benefit of the doubt.

    It's funny that the #ibelieveher movement also requires you to #notbelieveher, the her being the one person who was actually there and in the room.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    This is a tricky subject so I’ll urge you all to stay away from discussing the trial and details of the trial itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,977 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Elvisjuice wrote: »
    why are they finished they were found not guilty , who gives a **** what the twitter and ****book mongs are bleeting about

    Tell that to the probably 100000 ppl who will take to the streets today to protest about a not guilty verdict (in another jurisdiction).

    One of my friends is a lifelong fan/member of a LOI club who signed a convicted sex offender who at 16 was involved in the gangrape of a 14 year old. He hasn't set foot in that club since but the dogooders didn't mutter a word of protest. He was a 22 year member and it kills him.

    The problem here for the IRFU/Ulster is the profile of those involved and the media coverage. They have fine balancing act to achieve financially for the good of the game. Sponsors are vital to that. The Australia cricket ball tampering has lost them a few sponsors and the net loss for CA and the players is worth between $10-20 million.

    Errlloyd made a point any rugby culture needing to change. I'm not having a go at him, but I'm fed up hearing about how this is a rugby culture problem. It isnt. It is a society in general one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    It is possible that details from the courtroom may never have been made public. .For sure McIlroy and Harrison would have been unknown.

    Since one of the jurors did an online Q&A, I think that ship has sailed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,977 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Since one of the jurors did an online Q&A, I think that ship has sailed.

    There is a media embargo in place but that will be lifted soon enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Hands Like Flippers


    What does Dave s bring to UR?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Errlloyd made a point any rugby culture needing to change. I'm not having a go at him, but I'm fed up hearing about how this is a rugby culture problem. It isnt. It is a society in general one.

    You're not wrong. I respect this comment. I don't think rugby is the problem either. I think rugby is in a strong position to be the solution. It has the captive audience of many young men.




  • errlloyd wrote: »
    You're not wrong. I respect this comment. I don't think rugby is the problem either. I think rugby is in a strong position to be the solution. It has the captive audience of many young men.

    I'd rather rugby stick to rugby. Respect is already an integral part of the game, I don't want something I enjoy as sport wading into social commentary. Leave that to politicians, schools and most importantly - parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,724 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Seriously, when is the Glasgow match?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    What does Dave s bring to UR?

    lunch?


  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    What does Dave s bring to UR?
    Who?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,724 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Big game for the A team today. The game is being streamed online. I'll be out and about so won't see it but I'm interested to hear how Angus Curtis gets on at 12.

    We've strengthened the pack for next season with Murphy and Moore and (touch wood) the return of Coetzee. Addison is a new option for the backs, if someone like Curtis can come through and we get 10 sorted one way or another maybe next year won't be quite the disaster this season has been (not hard)...oh...and we get a new coach obviously...that's kinda important too...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I'd rather rugby stick to rugby. Respect is already an integral part of the game, I don't want something I enjoy as sport wading into social commentary. Leave that to politicians, schools and most importantly - parents.

    The horse has bolted on this one I'm afraid.

    It might be different if Ulster and IRFU were purely private enterprises. If they were e.g. an English soccer club or an NFL team whose sole focus is whether the 11 guys on the field win on Saturday, then it would be a very different scenario. Saying "they've been cleared and that's the end of it" might fly.

    But IRFU is the governing body for kids rugby, schools rugby, women's rugby. They rely on the goodwill of parents and volunteers as well as sponsors. They rely on a positive media image. They rely on being able to portray the sport as being more inclusive and open than previous. Their mission is to develop the game, not to protect their pro players.

    They've made huge gains in the last twenty years and that has been massively based on benign media coverage. They can't play both sides, they can't welcome good publicity and disengage when it doesn't suit them.

    At best, welcoming back the two lads will again paint rugby as the elite boys club for privately educated men that IRFU needs to leave behind. People will say that the only thing that matters to IRFU is who you know and where you went to school. That's the best case scenario.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    I'd rather rugby stick to rugby. Respect is already an integral part of the game, I don't want something I enjoy as sport wading into social commentary. Leave that to politicians, schools and most importantly - parents.

    There is no reason to beleive our (true for all of us regardless of generation) parents generation are any better on this than we are, and plenty of reason to beleive the opposite is true.


This discussion has been closed.
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