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Two More Bite the Dust

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Comments

  • #62
    jittu11
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭jittu11


    Some of the points being made here make me feel very uncomfortable given the title of the thread. Lots of businesses outsource, not just golf clubs, and it works. It is most certainly not a race to the bottom or a quest for power. I am also uncomfortable with some of the assumptions being made around business models. There is no one size fits all business model for this and in most cases, Management Companies are answerable to shareholders, be they private, corporate or members. I would not advocate treating guesswork as fact as a little bit of ignorance can do a lot of damage to a business. Every golf club is different and assuming one's own model is the best model is misguided. Too many golf clubs are not treated as a business when they should be and given the title of this thread, maybe we could stick to what we know rather than what we think. I am a member of one of the clubs mentioned here in the last couple of pages and as I am happy with how it is being run on behalf of the shareholders and I in turn am benefiting from that, I don't have the appetite to question how other clubs may or may not be run.


  • #63
    neckedit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    Ollieboy wrote: »
    The other reason members clubs might go this route is due to the lack of volunteers with the correct skillsets to run a business/club, but I can’t see many members own clubs go this way which is why I am surprised by Kilcock, but if the members can’t make it work then fair enough.

    But most member clubs do make it work. We only allow societies out at 3 onwards at weekend on the main course, hence we get very few of them and we have only increase subs once in the last 12 years and they are actually lower now then in 2008. So members can run clubs well if they have the right people.

    If the above business run to many clubs then they will end up with to much power which is already a issue in relation to booking systems in Ireland. They will also view the course as a short term asset which could also lead to problems in 20 years time with no capital investment.

    But in the current climate with the race to the bottom these type of business have a purpose, but in a rising or full market, I am not sure!

    "Most" members clubs are by no means making it work, Hence the "Race to the bottom" is being experienced by a certain category of clubs. and these clubs are in the position because people lack the skills but plough ahead anyway.

    Your point regarding booking systems is totally lost Im me.


  • #64
    ShriekingSheet
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭ShriekingSheet


    jittu11 wrote: »
    Some of the points being made here make me feel very uncomfortable given the title of the thread.

    I am also uncomfortable with some of the assumptions being made around business models. I would not advocate treating guesswork as fact as a little bit of ignorance can do a lot of damage to a business.

    I agree with this, and feel the same reading the thread.

    *Ollieboy* is saying a lot of negative stuff by implying, suggesting and alluding to what he thinks are weaknesses in Kilcock's situation. It's blatant slagging off the club down the road, while trying to disguise the criticism as innocent discussion.

    "Very strange, not normal...
    I am not saying this is a bad thing, just unusual...
    I personally would hate it...
    They might go this route due to a lack of volunteers...
    Surprised by Kilcock but if the members can't make it work...
    Too much power, will view the course as a short term investment..."

    All of this while all other posters respond to point out the club's decision is not strange or surprising - citing examples.

    Very, very petty of you Ollieboy.


  • #65
    Ollieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭Ollieboy


    ShriekingSheet wrote: »
    I agree with this, and feel the same reading the thread.

    *Ollieboy* is saying a lot of negative stuff by implying, suggesting and alluding to what he thinks are weaknesses in Kilcock's situation. It's blatant slagging off the club down the road, while trying to disguise the criticism as innocent discussion.

    "Very strange, not normal...
    I am not saying this is a bad thing, just unusual...
    I personally would hate it...
    They might go this route due to a lack of volunteers...
    Surprised by Kilcock but if the members can't make it work...
    Too much power, will view the course as a short term investment..."

    All of this while all other posters respond to point out the club's decision is not strange or surprising - citing examples.

    Very, very petty of you Ollieboy.

    I think that’s a very unfair comment. My very first post was sharing some news and after that everything was about different club models and opinions on them, but if you or anyone is offend I apologize but calling someone petty is the height of being petty and sad. Some would even call you post bullying.

    And nobody as still cited an example of a members club doing this so again your taken other people’s comments out of context.

    You must work in meda taken all off the above comments out of context, which is very unfair.

    So in future I won’t share any golf news with this forum which might be off interest to its members. Kilcock is miles awayfrom me and a club I would have no benefit in slagging it off which I didn’t.

    I do agree with the above post that it was probably the wrong thread to mention it in.


  • #66
    ShriekingSheet
    Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭ShriekingSheet


    Ollieboy wrote: »
    I think that’s a very unfair comment. My very first post was sharing some news and after that everything was about different club models and opinions on them, but if you or anyone is offend I apologize but calling someone petty is the height of being petty and sad. Some would even call you post bullying.

    And nobody as still cited an example of a members club doing this so again your taken other people’s comments out of context.

    You must work in meda taken all off the above comments out of context, which is very unfair.

    So in future I won’t share any golf news with this forum which might be off interest to its members. Kilcock is miles awayfrom me and a club I would have no benefit in slagging it off which I didn’t.

    I do agree with the above post that it was probably the wrong thread to mention it in.

    It’s one thing to share news. It’s another thing to share news and then constantly run the club down with each post.

    It may not be overt, but you’re doing it subtlely, which is probably worse to be honest.

    You’ve been called out on it. I’m interested to see what others think.


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  • #67
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,006 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Hard to know what to make of it with so little information. Lots of assumptions being made with very little to back them up. For example, what's the structure? Do they charge a management fee or take all the income and pay the club a rental?

    And it seems to me that bringing the information up on this thread is making a statement which I think is unwarranted given how little information is available. Should really be in a thread of its own.


  • #68
    Wichita Lineman
    Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman


    I didn't realise that Glenmalure in Wicklow was gone and I've played it a few times as I know some members there. It was always struggling due to small membership numbers and being on the side of a mountain it wasn't a particularly attractive location for societies or visitors. I do feel sorry for the members who worked hard for years to keep it alive and I'm sure they will miss it.

    The only consolation is that they have an abundance of courses to pick from in the Wicklow area.


  • #69
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Not looking great for narin n portnoo in Donegal. Class spot (in good weather!) It'd be a shame if it goes.
    Famous Donegal golf club is facing closure


  • #70
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭death1234567


    Patww79 wrote: »
    It's a sport people are too easily shut out of in this country so it's no surprise numbers are falling.
    Completely untrue. There are plenty of golf clubs around more than happy to accept new members for very reasonable rates. The reason the number of golf members is falling has nothing to do with any perceived elitism in golf.


  • #71
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    enricoh wrote: »
    Not looking great for narin n portnoo in Donegal. Class spot (in good weather!) It'd be a shame if it goes.
    Famous Donegal golf club is facing closure

    Where are you hearing that?

    http://donegalnews.com/2017/10/closure-threat-lifted-top-donegal-golf-club/


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  • #72
    Insecurity Guard
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Insecurity Guard


    death1234567 wrote: »
    Completely untrue. There are plenty of golf clubs around more than happy to accept new members for very reasonable rates. The reason the number of golf members is falling has nothing to do with any perceived elitism in golf.

    Absolutely. There simply aren't enough 'elite' people in Ireland to keep golf clubs going, and lots of good membership deals out there.


  • #73
    Kingswood Rover
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    Insecurity Guard wrote: »
    Absolutely. There simply aren't enough 'elite' people in Ireland to keep golf clubs going, and lots of good membership deals out there.

    Just noticed that the Curragh are now asking for a small entry fee of 251 euros from new applicants for full membership which is 1155 euro. There does seem to be increased fees at some clubs. So while some are biting the dust some are eating cake, Lovely track is that Big Cill Dara.:mad:


  • #74
    dan_ep82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    Kingswood Rover wrote: »
    Just noticed that the Curragh are now asking for a small entry fee of 251 euros from new applicants for full membership which is 1155 euro. There does seem to be increased fees at some clubs. So while some are biting the dust some are eating cake, Lovely track is that Big Cill Dara.:mad:
    Royal Tara are bringing in a €1500 joining fee this year.


  • #75
    redzerdrog
    Registered Users Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    dan_ep82 wrote: »
    Royal Tara are bringing in a €1500 joining fee this year.

    And have upped their yearly sub aswell which is crazy given the course has been unplayable for the past month or so.


  • #76
    dan_ep82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    And have upped their yearly sub aswell which is crazy given the course has been unplayable for the past month or so.
    Raised by €100, restaurant levy of €50 dropped.
    Think that pushes full membership to over €1,000 if your over 35


  • #77
    redzerdrog
    Registered Users Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    dan_ep82 wrote: »
    Raised by €100, restaurant levy of €50 dropped.
    Think that pushes full membership to over €1,000 if your over 35

    Yep pretty much charging the most for the demographic which has the least time to play, while subsidising others. I hear they losing members as a result.


  • #78
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,652 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    I'd expect hello money to creep back in from the bigger clubs especially with some of the smaller clubs going out of business.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • #79
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Where are you hearing that?

    http://donegalnews.com/2017/10/closure-threat-lifted-top-donegal-golf-club/

    https://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/home/294181/famous-donegal-golf-club-is-facing-closure.html


  • #80
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    I'm sure something will be done for Portnoo its a fine club and that land is of no other use financially.


  • #81
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Lads, unless there is concrete evidence a course is in trouble, there are to be no further posts like "this club might be in trouble", or "it looks like this club isn't looking good" I can only presume clubs are finding it difficult enough without rumours being circulated on here that could be completely untrue. Also, any poster just coming on here just to talk down other clubs will be given one warning and if this is not adhered to, they will be removed from the forum permanently


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  • #82
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    I note from this article that Portnoo has been closed since last Thursday. But there may yet be hope.

    http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/02/13/debt-owner-makes-one-last-pitch-to-re-open-narin-portnoo-golf-club/

    'Narin & Portnoo Golf Club could re-open next week if members agree to a proposal from American-based businessman Liam McDevitt this weekend.

    Mr McDevitt has since written to the Narin & Portnoo Golf Club captain, John Callaghan, outline his disappointment, but said he could not sit back and see the club closed ‘without one last pitch to the membership to keep it open’.


  • #83
    ProV
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭ProV


    HcksawJimDuggan wrote: »
    As per their facebook page, they informed members at the meeting on Friday night that the club is winding up.
    Slievenamon looks very much alive and well
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/slievenamongolfclub/posts/?ref=page_internal


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ProV wrote: »
    Slievenamon looks very much alive and well
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/slievenamongolfclub/posts/?ref=page_internal

    Their facebook page looks to have been resurrected as it had disappeared when news broke of the Club closing down.

    I hope it is of benefit to the local community and that they get their affairs in order with regard to managing their 'distance' members.


  • #85
    Kingswood Rover
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    if their affairs were not in order with regards to managing their handicaps surely the GUI would have stepped in. I am delighted they have survived best of luck to them. The next few weeks very important for a lot of clubs in terms of getting their revenue in from members subs with todays glorious weather really helping the fair weather golfers think about getting out to play and hopefully pay again. Just looking at the meltdown on the cold weather enthusiasts Weather boards threads it seems next weeks weather is going to be ice age stuff which will not help the revenue streams if it comes to pass.


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