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Making Confirmation and regular attendance at Mass

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I've been asked to stand for a young relaitive this year. I don't attend Mass on a regular basis but would consider mysef Catholic.

    I don't think I'm the right choice tbh, I remember when I did mine my sponsor took me under their wing and offered me guidance.


    I can't see myself being able to the same for this boy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    I've been asked to stand for a young relaitive this year. I don't attend Mass on a regular basis but would consider mysef Catholic.

    I don't think I'm the right choice tbh, I remember when I did mine my sponsor took me under their wing and offered me guidance.


    I can't see myself being able to the same for this boy.

    With all due respect, you're probably over thinking it. My own experience and probably that of the majority of people on here who made their confirmation back in the mists of time, is that you ask someone to do it, they turn up on the day and stand behind you with their hand on your shoulder while the Bishop is going around doing his Bishopy thing and then your sponsor gives you a fist of money afterwards. Job done!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    Agricola wrote: »
    It's such bollox. Friend of mine is having a humanist wedding, him and the Mrs are openly atheist, none of the a la carte catholic business, but they've had the kid baptized so they have a choice of national schools in the locality. They've decided to let the child go through all the catholic rituals/teaching in school because they don't want him excluded or feeling different. All that tripe should be removed from school hours and only attended to evening and weekends. Then we'd see who the real Catholics are.
    Too true.
    Right, time to drop the chisellers to their evening religion class...then again, feckit, Coronation Street is on in 5 minutes.:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭koumi


    can't wait for lent woop


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    And how would this be checked? will the priest pass around an attendance sheet?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Greyfox wrote: »
    And how would this be checked? will the priest pass around an attendance sheet?

    My brother had to sign in.

    Complained about having to go to mass constantly, still got all his kids confirmed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Heard some talk on the radio by some who had the notion that Sunday now and again was fair enough - it might be by them, but according to HQ, its an obligatory day. If you call yourself a catholic you should be there, unless your ass has exploded or the like.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I would be like several of the other parents here - against the whole idea in the first place, but forced to give in to it to get him a place in a decent school locally.

    When do they make their communion/confirmation anyway?
    So it is that you can't get a school place, or a place in the school you want?

    The whole " baptism barrier" thing is nothing as prevalent as the media like to portray. It exists in a few city areas, where there is a shortage of school places in general, but not much otherwise.
    Our school has a Catholic ethos and is hugely oversubscribed, but our enrollment policy does not include religion at all. We have children of many faiths and none, as do the vast majority of Catholic schools.

    Other religions may also select according to religion, but it seems that it is portrayed as a Catholic issue only.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/just-1-2-of-children-refused-school-place-over-baptism-barrier-1.2967273


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Heard some talk on the radio by some who had the notion that Sunday now and again was fair enough - it might be by them, but according to HQ, its an obligatory day. If you call yourself a catholic you should be there, unless your ass has exploded or the like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Yes but how many if the Children are only Catholic because of the schools admission policy ? The preparation for Confirmation takes up massive amounts timewise in 6th Class, kids whose parents have no choice in the matter, as kids not receiving confirmation may be seen as different by their class mates ?

    Solution to all of this is to take religious teaching and preparation for sacraments out if schools. If a parent want their children indoctrinated in the Catholic Church or any church it should be done at home.

    If priests want religious education let them take Sunday Schools after mass on a Sunday.

    But there are muslim kids atheist kids Born Again Christian kids don’tcareonewayortheother kids in the school now so the excuse of “ we didn’t want Chloe/Cian to feel left out “ doesn’t really wash anymore, does it ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Dozyart wrote: »
    Had to get my kids baptised etc to get into local schools,but the oldest is up for confirmation this year and we have left it up to her now,she doesnt believe in god and we said we would respect whatever decision she makes.....so.....she made a business decision to do it for the money and never go back near a church were possible,pretty much what everyone does anyway

    Why would you allow your child to stand in front of a whole church full of people and tell blatant lies like that. Are you mad? And you her parent standing there too, lying and smiling for no reason?
    Will you continue through her teenage years encouraging her to have no self esteem dignity, pride or morals just to get cash?
    I presume shoplifting or snatching handbags is a business desicion as well, it doesn’t matter as long as you get what you want?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Other religions may also select according to religion, but it seems that it is portrayed as a Catholic issue only

    Probably because the RCC has a virtual monopoly on schools in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    VinLieger wrote: »
    It was answered above, the children who dont go through the process with the rest of their class usually are made feel to be missing out, they dont also get to have a big party and all the extras like presents that go along with the whole farce.

    The last thing any child of that age wants is to be made feel different and have it visibly pointed out

    In 6th class in the school I went to myself, a convent school, more than 1/3 of the girls won’t be getting confirmation this year.
    I can 100% assure you that no one is being “made to feel different”.
    If your child was “made to feel different” by anyone (teacher, parent, other pupil) then I assume as a parent that you took the school to task over this.
    If you are recalling your own experience then that was sad, but at some stage you will have to accept that times have moved on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    kylith wrote: »
    Probably because the RCC has a virtual monopoly on schools in this country.

    And long may it continue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Dozyart wrote: »
    Had to get my kids baptised etc to get into local schools,but the oldest is up for confirmation this year and we have left it up to her now,she doesnt believe in god and we said we would respect whatever decision she makes.....so.....she made a business decision to do it for the money and never go back near a church were possible,pretty much what everyone does anyway
    Dozyart wrote: »
    Had to get my kids baptised etc to get into local schools,but the oldest is up for confirmation this year and we have left it up to her now,she doesnt believe in god and we said we would respect whatever decision she makes.....so.....she made a business decision to do it for the money and never go back near a church were possible,pretty much what everyone does anyway

    Why would you encorage your child to stand in front of a whole big packed room full of people and tell blatant lies and make solemn promises she can’t keep like that. Are you mad? Where’s the self esteem and pride and dignity she deserves? For money?!?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭wnolan1992


    Thats scandalous. What right has he to deny people a big day out?

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that that was a joke about parents who only view the Confirmation as a day out as opposed to you actually being angry that you don't get the day out anymore.

    However, it brings up a point that has increasingly begun to bother me.

    One argument people put forward for the importance of religion (and in this particular instance the Communion and Confirmation) is that their kid would "miss out on the big day out!" or "I'd like my kids to be baptised because I remember the community aspect of Mass being great as a kid, and I'd like my child to have that too!"

    What's boiling my piss more and more is, why the f*ck are we so stunted as a society that we have to rely on religion to give us that feeling of community?

    One of the best things about Catholicism, especially in rural areas, is that it gets everyone in a locality together of a Sunday morning. But why can't we just, I don't know, say "Right, every Sunday morning, 11am, we'll have a coffee morning in the local hall. Coffee, tea, cakes, buns, activities for the kids, be great! We can all just come together as a parishcommunity and chat and socialise!"

    But no, we need the thread of mythical creatures shoving flaming hot pokers up our arses for the rest of eternity as incentive to get together.


    It's pathetic when you think about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    splinter65 wrote: »
    And long may it continue.

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Pete Tong wrote: »
    They don't want their kids to miss out on the party.
    They also don't want their kids to stand out or be different.
    (what VinLieger above said)

    For them, it's just a party with a boring Church bit at the beginning.

    May I ask you for your personal opinion BellaBella - would you have a problem with religion being removed from schools? - you could still do this stuff in your own time.

    Why don’t they just skip the boring church bit (it’s very long) and just have the party? People do have parties without going to church first you know!
    Be different from whom? Do you not have any kids from other religions or none in your school?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    wnolan1992 wrote: »
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that that was a joke about parents who only view the Confirmation as a day out as opposed to you actually being angry that you don't get the day out anymore.

    However, it brings up a point that has increasingly begun to bother me.

    One argument people put forward for the importance of religion (and in this particular instance the Communion and Confirmation) is that their kid would "miss out on the big day out!" or "I'd like my kids to be baptised because I remember the community aspect of Mass being great as a kid, and I'd like my child to have that too!"

    What's boiling my piss more and more is, why the f*ck are we so stunted as a society that we have to rely on religion to give us that feeling of community?

    One of the best things about Catholicism, especially in rural areas, is that it gets everyone in a locality together of a Sunday morning. But why can't we just, I don't know, say "Right, every Sunday morning, 11am, we'll have a coffee morning in the local hall. Coffee, tea, cakes, buns, activities for the kids, be great! We can all just come together as a parishcommunity and chat and socialise!"

    But no, we need the thread of mythical creatures shoving flaming hot pokers up our arses for the rest of eternity as incentive to get together.


    It's pathetic when you think about it.

    There’s no threat of mythical creatures or red hot pokers at mass now. Not ever. Not for 20 years. You need to move on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,577 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    So it is that you can't get a school place, or a place in the school you want?

    The whole " baptism barrier" thing is nothing as prevalent as the media like to portray. It exists in a few city areas, where there is a shortage of school places in general, but not much otherwise.
    Our school has a Catholic ethos and is hugely oversubscribed, but our enrollment policy does not include religion at all. We have children of many faiths and none, as do the vast majority of Catholic schools.

    Other religions may also select according to religion, but it seems that it is portrayed as a Catholic issue only.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/just-1-2-of-children-refused-school-place-over-baptism-barrier-1.2967273

    It's not in Dublin, but rather an average town so choices are limited, hence the need to baptise to assure options.

    That said... we did look at the local Educate Together and were initially very positive about it until we were warned off it for a reason I actually hadn't considered - the demographics of the school.

    Like it or not, PC or not :rolleyes:, it was pointed out that a lot of the school population were non-native students. No issue with that in itself, except that English language skills were lacking or completely absent in many of the kids.

    We ended up agreeing that if the teacher has to spend a significant portion of the time teaching basic English as well, it's only going to hold the others back.. thus he went elsewhere and is thriving!

    But that alternative wouldn't have been possible had we not conceded to the need to have him baptised.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why?

    Because if the majority of parents wanted it out then it would be out.
    If the parents are happy then that’s the only thing that matters.
    If a minority of parents are not happy then let them mobilize and organize and make the government give more money for schools of no faith.
    There’s no reason for the other parents to be discombobulated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    I'm from the town and he's one of the preachiest people I've ever had to listen to. Having sat through a couple of his sermons at funerals etc. I got a vision into how mass must have been back in the 50's. People sitting there looking at each other with a "when will this ever end" look on their faces.
    Kids in the local school making communion are obligated to go to mass and parents have to sign in at the church to prove attendence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,644 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Do I believe in a higher power? Yes.

    Do I believe in the Catholic Church and its sickeningly hypocritical viewpoint on everything from gays to abortion to baptism? No.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Do I believe in a higher power? Yes.

    Do I believe in the Catholic Church and its sickeningly hypocritical viewpoint on everything from gays to abortion to baptism? No.
    .....but do you think that the Catholic priest should insist that children putting themselves forward as candidates for the Roman Catholic Holy Sacrament of Confirmation should actually BE Roman Catholics?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,317 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    That's grand. Keep those religious sacraments out of schools then. Don't make baptising a child a pre-requisite for going to school and don't take up valuable school time with the teaching and preparation for these sacraments, avoiding the peer-pressure on children to make them, then everything will be cool.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why?
    Because if it’s removed from schools parents wouldn’t bother to indoctrinate their kids on account of that actually taking effort, and within a few years the RCC would be obviously as pointless as they actually are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    A priest in Enniscorthy has said that parents who want their children to make their Confirmation must attend Mass. I think he's right. People taking part in sacraments that are completely meaningless to them seems very hypocritical to me, and insulting to the people to whom they have religious significance.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/confirmation-children-families-must-attend-mass-says-priest-1.3385833

    Well when the church divests itself of all these schools then they might be left with parents who actually want their children to partake in these superstitious rituals.

    I would expect that a lot of parents will just shrug their shoulders in response to this and say 'fine so'


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Ruairi Quinn did a much heralded survey during his tenure, but was quite disappointed by the results.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/church-to-identify-schools-it-can-divest-1.2606
    And just to point out that Educate Together schools, like many Gaelscoileanna are not non-denominational (no public primary schools are non-denom) but mulit-denominational.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    That's grand. Keep those religious sacraments out of schools then. Don't make baptising a child a pre-requisite for going to school and don't take up valuable school time with the teaching and preparation for these sacraments, avoiding the peer-pressure on children to make them, then everything will be cool.

    But where is this pre requisite going on? Not in any of the 4 large primary schools in our medium sized market town.
    Some of the children are making communion/confirmation, some are not, there’s no “peer pressure” because enough aren’t taking part.
    Not one single Muslim family with small kids that I deal with have experienced any “peer pressure” about this.
    Nor did they have to baptize children as Catholics or even Christians to get admitted to the schools.
    Large Born Again Christian community (and growing) too, no problems for them either.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Ruairi Quinn did a much heralded survey during his tenure, but was quite disappointed by the results.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/church-to-identify-schools-it-can-divest-1.2606
    And just to point out that Educate Together schools, like many Gaelscoileanna are not non-denominational (no public primary schools are non-denom) but mulit-denominational.

    It’s very simple. If enough of the parents were unhappy with the catholic ethos then it would be all over already.


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