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Green fees: how do we stop the golf consultants ruining golf?

1356

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Anyone who would pay €150 for Seapoint, ever, needs their head examined.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    fullstop wrote: »
    Anyone who would pay €150 for Seapoint, ever, needs their head examined.
    Indeed. Considering you can get Druids Glen for the same day for €50. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Indeed. Considering you can get Druids Glen for the same day for €50. :)


    You may get an open for 50 in Druids.
    But rarely a Sunday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    neckedit wrote: »
    You may get an open for 50 in Druids.
    But rarely a Sunday.
    I had just looked it up on teetimes. Available from €75 next Sunday from 12pm. Monday from €50.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I had just looked it up on teetimes. Available from €75 next Sunday from 12pm. Monday from €50.

    Cheapest I saw for the Glen Was 60 on Monday.
    They have been running winter alliance over both courses for the last few months. Not played from Christmas but both tracks were in great Nick.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    As someone who has forked out for membership and yearly subs in Seapoint, I am delighted it is so expensive to play there at the weekend. If someone is going to eat into by ability to get on the timesheet I bloody hope they are paying through the nose for it. Sunday morning is prime time on the timesheet, generally there is one line or two booked off which is fine and if that is bringing in income fir the club that is fine. I would much rather one line being taken and that bringing in €600 than 3 lines taken up for the same price but impacting on me getting a round in.

    As others have said there is an open every Tuesday all year round, there is also open weeks several times a year so seapoint are very inclusive for other gui members


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    Scotland has a residential rate for all its top courses, if we go we pay the rack rate same as the American tourists.
    Think that it is fine in Ireland have played almost all the top courses and 50 to sixty quid is the most I've paid.
    Do think if u are a club in the gui you should have to hold scratch cups at a minimum, would like to see the return of a proper open week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭Adiaga 2


    neckedit wrote: »
    Why?
    What would thay achieve?
    The golf tourism sector is worth in excess of 200million to the Irish economy.

    So why risk it all by trying to fleece them?
    neckedit wrote: »
    they don't seem to mind

    FFS


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    Adiaga 2 wrote: »
    So why risk it all by trying to fleece them?

    Nothing is being risked!
    We are not fleecing them, They see the value in our courses! it is your perception that these courses are expensive, Not theirs.

    FFS



    Look I can't afford to eat in Shannahan's on the Green, but I wouldn't suggest they have to lower there prices to suit me just because I have an annual subscription to "What Restaurant" magazine. And I absolutely wouldn't wish a "Big Magazine" do an expose on them and threaten the business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Some clubs want to target a particular segment and goodluck to them if they can charge those kinds of prices and get enough people to pay - it's proof that price can create its own demand.......it's also proof that fools and their money are easily parted!

    Personally, the clubs that irritate me are not the ones charging tourists ridiculous green fees, but the ones who seem to be wholly ideologically opposed to running the odd open comp.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Rumple Stillson


    The best way to limit the number of rounds played on your course is to have a very high green fee. Some of the best clubs protect their courses in this way, particularly links, which don't tolerate traffic as well as parklands.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭Adiaga 2


    neckedit wrote: »
    Look I can't afford to eat in Shannahan's on the Green, but I wouldn't suggest they have to lower there prices to suit me just because I have an annual subscription to "What Restaurant" magazine. And I absolutely wouldn't wish a "Big Magazine" do an expose on them and threaten the business.

    Completely agree with you, but Seapoint isn't Shannahan's on the Green. It's a nice course and of course they can charge whatever they like. But €150 for a round there is ridiculous. Maybe €150 with lunch and transfer to your hotel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    I don't get this. Clubs are free to charge whatever they bloody well want and they will live and die by those decisions.

    Did someone suggest that all GUI affiliated clubs must have a special rate for GUI members? Jesus, heard it all now. So some lad who pays €100 distance membership for some sh1thole gets to play The European on a Sunday morning for €50? Don't think so.

    What I do believe is that they should have a number of opens per year if they're connected to the GUI.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Rumple Stillson


    I don't get this. Clubs are free to charge whatever they bloody well want and they will live and die by those decisions.

    Did someone suggest that all GUI affiliated clubs must have a special rate for GUI members? Jesus, heard it all now. So some lad who pays €100 distance membership for some sh1thole gets to play The European on a Sunday morning for €50? Don't think so.

    What I do believe is that they should have a number of opens per year if they're connected to the GUI.

    I'd maybe add to that all clubs should have a special rate for juniors, gotta get more kids involved in the game, letting them play some of the best courses might just help that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    neckedit wrote: »
    Look I can't afford to eat in Shannahan's on the Green, but I wouldn't suggest they have to lower there prices to suit me just because I have an annual subscription to "What Restaurant" magazine. And I absolutely wouldn't wish a "Big Magazine" do an expose on them and threaten the business.

    Except Shanahan's is part of the RAI, Euro-toques etc they have - and participate in - various industry related events where chefs etc do go and eat cheaply or even for free (I know, I've been with the Da!!)

    You're analogy is a bit skewed - no one expects a discount from a club because they subscribe to a golf magazine, but given that clubs are part of the GUI and benefit from being part of a wider organisation into which we all contribute (if you're a club member), they should be willing to reciprocate by having the odd open comp.

    Likewise, if I rock up to any restaurtant I'd expect to pay the face price, but that doesn't mean they don't offer reciprocal arrangements to those who are part of their wider sector.


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    benny79 wrote: »
    Lads most clubs offer a gui rate if you ring and ask them. I was in Kerry on holidays 1 summer and got waterville for €65 in the middle of July 2 american lads that were behind me paid €180 each..

    Petty the weather was terrible! it was like playing in a hurricane on the last few holes but enjoyed the experience
    Yanks get screwed over here for green fees. If they looked in here they would run a mile.

    Yanks don’t get fleeced here. The cost for playing bucket list links courses is lower than Scotland and England.

    I’ve no problem with high season pricing in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Ronney


    Just out of curiosity what discount do people think should be offered to GUI members off the Rack rate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    I don't get this. Clubs are free to charge whatever they bloody well want and they will live and die by those decisions.

    Did someone suggest that all GUI affiliated clubs must have a special rate for GUI members? Jesus, heard it all now. So some lad who pays €100 distance membership for some sh1thole gets to play The European on a Sunday morning for €50? Don't think so.

    What I do believe is that they should have a number of opens per year if they're connected to the GUI.

    They can the European have a gui rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    backspin. wrote: »
    If they truly are being fleeced as it is reported here I'd love for the golf channel or some of the big golf magazines to report in it.
    The lets fleece the yanks, and tbh its all supposedly wealthy tourists attitude is embarrassing. Clubs doing distance/minor memberships could show some real hospitality and generate much needed income for themselves by offering packages that included membership in a affiliated GUI club for the year, 3 free rounds if you needed a handicap or assist the transfer your handicap from your home country/club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Except Shanahan's is part of the RAI, Euro-toques etc they have - and participate in - various industry related events where chefs etc do go and eat cheaply or even for free (I know, I've been with the Da!!)

    You're analogy is a bit skewed - no one expects a discount from a club because they subscribe to a golf magazine, but given that clubs are part of the GUI and benefit from being part of a wider organisation into which we all contribute (if you're a club member), they should be willing to reciprocate by having the odd open comp.

    Likewise, if I rock up to any restaurtant I'd expect to pay the face price, but that doesn't mean they don't offer reciprocal arrangements to those who are part of their wider sector.

    my analogy is that the GUI fee is only €25 per member , €28 for ILGU, why should such a modest fee enable you to demand lower prices? The Majority of courses have opens or scratch cups and the likes that offer the course at discounted rates already. And as I said before alot of the courses do have reciprocal deals with others. And yes when you work in the golf industry you also can avail of special rates for a lot of the courses, just like your Father in the restaurant industry,but that is not the discussion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    Ronney wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity what discount do people think should be offered to GUI members off the Rack rate?
    Nothing green fee's should be the same for everyone no matter where you are from. Entry fees for open events should be the same. But what happens in this country so often is i roll up for a green fee with a couple of pals on a nice links on the east coast pay the rate the guys asks and then as we are looking around the pro shop tourists from the US, Japan, Germany out a couple of groups behind us wherever pay substantially more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭shamco


    neckedit wrote: »
    Jawgap wrote: »
    Except Shanahan's is part of the RAI, Euro-toques etc they have - and participate in - various industry related events where chefs etc do go and eat cheaply or even for free (I know, I've been with the Da!!)

    You're analogy is a bit skewed - no one expects a discount from a club because they subscribe to a golf magazine, but given that clubs are part of the GUI and benefit from being part of a wider organisation into which we all contribute (if you're a club member), they should be willing to reciprocate by having the odd open comp.

    Likewise, if I rock up to any restaurtant I'd expect to pay the face price, but that doesn't mean they don't offer reciprocal arrangements to those who are part of their wider sector.

    my analogy is that the GUI fee is only €25 per member , €28 for ILGU, why should such a modest fee enable you to demand lower prices?  The Majority of courses have opens or scratch cups and the likes that offer the course at discounted rates already. And as I said before alot of the courses do have reciprocal deals with others. And yes when you work in the golf industry you also can avail of special rates for a lot of the courses, just like your Father in the restaurant industry,but that is not the discussion.
    Yes but what do I get for my €25 GUI fee?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    shamco wrote: »
    Yes but what do I get for my €25 GUI fee?
    I'm actually unsure of this, because I've never done it, but can you enter an open competition without a GUI membership?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭ThunderCat


    Yanks get screwed over here for green fees. If they looked in here they would run a mile.



    I don't think they do to be honest. We have some of the very best courses in the World here. Most comparable courses in the states do not allow visitors at all and the ones that do allow visitors charge considerably more than what the top clubs here do. I think we are lucky to be able to play them at all. If you were to reverse the scenario and you were allowed to play Augusta or Pebble Beach for 200 quid no-one would think that was excessive. Our top courses are comparable to those.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    Argh the contradictions! This thread has it all.

    -green fees are too high
    -we have some of the best courses in the world
    -I should be able to play these best courses for cheap with my gui membership
    -but why should the yanks have to more than me
    -why don't courses want to make more money by slashing their fees

    Very frustrating read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Just looking at a random selection from the world's top twenty courses.
    1. Pine Valley - Only with a member
    2. Cypress Point - $250 + Caddie
    3. St. Andrews Old - £88 - £180
    4. Royal County Down - £185 - £200
    5. Augusta National - Almost impossible :)
    6. Shinnecock Hills - $360 (reportedly)
    7. National GLA NY - Is this even possible?
    8. Oakmont - Seems almost impossible
    9. Pebble Beach - $495 - $525
    10. Muirfield - £110 - £235
    11. Royal Melbourne - $AUS 550
    12. Pinehurst #2 - $365 - $445
    13. Royal Portrush - £70 - £205
    14. Whisting Straits - $410 + Caddie
    15. TPC Sawgrass - $395 - $549
    16. Ballybunion Old - €210

    Some of the above were hard to find and I had to rely on third party data. NGLA have a one page website with a login for members only. Price ranges are for off and on seasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    neckedit wrote: »
    my analogy is that the GUI fee is only €25 per member , €28 for ILGU, why should such a modest fee enable you to demand lower prices? The Majority of courses have opens or scratch cups and the likes that offer the course at discounted rates already. And as I said before alot of the courses do have reciprocal deals with others. And yes when you work in the golf industry you also can avail of special rates for a lot of the courses, just like your Father in the restaurant industry,but that is not the discussion.

    The majority of courses do, and I'm not demanding anything.

    I think there should be a degree of reciprocity.......clubs that don't run a certain minimum number of opens (say 4 per year) should not expect to see their members being allowed to participate in other clubs opens.

    Clubs are quite entitled to set their own green fees and their own competition schedules etc but if they don't "give" why should they expect to get in terms of access to other courses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Ronney wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity what discount do people think should be offered to GUI members off the Rack rate?

    My own view is that GUI membership should not entitle you to any discount as a walk-up, but clubs should run some minimum level of opens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    My own view is that GUI membership should not entitle you to any discount as a walk-up, but clubs should run some minimum level of opens.
    That was my point above about what GUI membership gives you. It's a useful perk if all clubs participate, even in a limited capacity.

    But even though it's only €25, you can't get it without membership of a club, so there's an additional cost there too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭ThunderCat


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Just looking at a random selection from the world's top twenty courses.
    1. Pine Valley - Only with a member
    2. Cypress Point - $250 + Caddie
    3. St. Andrews Old - £88 - £180
    4. Royal County Down - £185 - £200
    5. Augusta National - Almost impossible :)
    6. Shinnecock Hills - $360 (reportedly)
    7. National GLA NY - Is this even possible?
    8. Oakmont - Seems almost impossible
    9. Pebble Beach - $495 - $525
    10. Muirfield - £110 - £235
    11. Royal Melbourne - $AUS 550
    12. Pinehurst #2 - $365 - $445
    13. Royal Portrush - £70 - £205
    14. Whisting Straits - $410 + Caddie
    15. TPC Sawgrass - $395 - $549
    16. Ballybunion Old - €210

    Some of the above were hard to find and I had to rely on third party data. NGLA have a one page website with a login for members only. Price ranges are for off and on seasons.



    The ones in bold are members and their guests only aswell.


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