Biological males in women's sport

ceadaoin. · 28-02-2018 7:32pm #1

Just after reading an article about a transgender cyclist in NZ who won a womens race after competing as a man only 3 weeks ago. In the men's version of the race last year, this person finished 35th with a time that was still 10 seconds faster than the women's winner. Now here they are winning the women's event . How is this fair? Does anyone actually think this should be allowed?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12002309

Here is an article specifically about the difference between the sexes when it comes to cycling. How can 3 weeks change any of this? don't even think 3 years of transition is going to change skeletal structure, lung size or blood volume

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/cycling-and-gender-how-and-why-male-and-female-cyclists-need-to-train-differently-344365

I've seen several stories recently about biological males competing in women's sports and not surprisingly trouncing the competition or even severely injuring their opponents (MMA fighter Fallon fox). Should MTF transgender athletes accept that they should be unable to compete against members of the opposite sex in the name of fairness? I totally get that they want to be and should be treated the same as any other other woman in everyday life but in some situations there are clear advantages. Is there a solution that is fair for everyone?

pjohnson · 28-02-2018 7:33pm

Will this thread make it to page 2?

Hande hoche! · 28-02-2018 7:36pm

From what I understand, they test the level of testosterone. Still imagine there is some advantages post transition in terms of bone density and muscle mass owing to their previous gender.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 28-02-2018 7:41pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Will this thread make it to page 2?

Depends on if it drifts to discussing the weather or sliced pans.

judeboy101 · 28-02-2018 7:43pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pTejRBxSc

Ajsoprano · 28-02-2018 7:45pm

I’d stay away from this thread. The cards will fly no matter what happens.
I’ve probably already said too much. I’m out of here.

ED E · 28-02-2018 7:46pm

If I were her(his) competitor I'd be fierce pissed thats for sure.

Tenigate · 28-02-2018 7:47pm

Fallon Fox broke a woman fighters skulls thanks to her masculine physique.

International female running events are dominated by women who were born men.

In US college sports women are losing to MTF transsexuals and female pre-op FTM who are allowed to use testosterone.

It's a circus but it's only temporary. People are seeing the truth.

kneemos · 28-02-2018 7:49pm

Ajsoprano wrote: »

I’d stay away from this thread. The cards will fly no matter what happens.
I’ve probably already said too much. I’m out of here.

Should be OK.

I'll hang back,make sure you're not followed.

Guy:Incognito · 28-02-2018 7:49pm

Going by the articles posted, men have somewhere between a 10 and 12.5 % advantage over women. So unless a transgender athletes results drop by 10% at least post change, then they have an ongoing unfair advantage.

Hande hoche! · 28-02-2018 7:55pm

See that one transgender competitor in a Texas wrestling match was booed.

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robyntmorton · 28-02-2018 7:57pm

In this case, it was not 3 weeks and suddenly there’s a man competing in women’s cycling. She was required to meet requirements for testosterone levels over a minimum of 12 months before she could make the switch. This is in line with standard rules for UCI sanctioned events, and there are others who have done this before. Further MtF trans athletes tend to be paranoid about making sure they are within the rules, as a single failed test for testosterone can give a hefty 2 year ban.

She complied with the rules, was allowed to compete within those rules, and this time won.

If a question must be asked, it is whether the rules are correct or need to be tweaked? It is very difficult to do scientific testing on this though, for the simple reason of there being so few transgender elite athletes.

todders · 28-02-2018 7:57pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Going by the articles posted, men have somewhere between a 10 and 12.5 % advantage over women. So unless a transgender athletes results drop by 10% at least post change, then they have an ongoing unfair advantage.

Do you usually form your opinions on a single article?

ceadaoin. · 28-02-2018 8:00pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

See that one transgender competitor in a Texas wrestling match was booed.

Well it's also unfair that a female transman using testosterone is allowed to compete when others would be banned for doping. I don't have the first clue about wrestling so I'm not sure if it would be safe for him to compete in the male division?

Hande hoche! · 28-02-2018 8:02pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well it's also unfair that a female transman using testosterone is allowed to compete when others would be banned for doping. I don't have the first clue about wrestling so I'm not sure if it would be safe for him to compete in the male division?

Yeah as someone with very little knowledge about wrestling, it seems unfair.

Ronin247 · 28-02-2018 8:04pm

There should be no women only events because that is sexism.

MilesMorales1 · 28-02-2018 8:04pm

Nayeli Fancy Between wrote: »

Depends on if it drifts to discussing the weather or sliced pans.

I can't find any bloody sliced pans what is there to discuss.

Guy:Incognito · 28-02-2018 8:05pm

todders wrote: »

Do you usually form your opinions on a single article?

It sites a couple of different studies.

Even a basic look at world records or winning times for each gender across individual sports will show big differences.

ceadaoin. · 28-02-2018 8:07pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Yeah as someone with very little knowledge about wrestling, it seems unfair.

Well the very fact that the he is allowed to take a substance that gives athletic advantage and that is prohibited for other competitors is unfair. Do I need to be an expert on wrestling to see that?

Hande hoche! · 28-02-2018 8:09pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well the very fact that the he is allowed to take a substance that gives athletic advantage and that is prohibited for other competitors is unfair. Do I need to be an expert on wrestling to see that?

We might be about to see a golden era in women's' sport or something else...

Tenigate · 28-02-2018 8:09pm

todders wrote: »

Do you usually form your opinions on a single article?

A junior cert biology book won't see ya too far wrong.

Or that famous quote from kindergarten cop.

There's 2 sources.

ceadaoin. · 28-02-2018 8:12pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It sites a couple of different studies.

Even a basic look at world records or winning times for each gender across individual sports will show big differences.

Women's world records are generally 90% that of men's according to this article

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/the-golden-ratio-the-one-number-that-describes-how-mens-world-records-compare-with-womens/260758/

Ajsoprano · 28-02-2018 8:12pm

Tenigate wrote: »

A junior cert biology book won't see ya too far wrong.

Or that famous quote from kindergarten cop.

There's 2 sources.

Who is your daddy and what does he do.

Malayalam · 28-02-2018 8:21pm

This situation was always going to arise. It is a clear demonstration of the difficulties in real time of a modern ideology based in denying the biological basis of gender. By that I mean gender at the X and Y chromosone cellular level. There will be many more real time situations when the ideology meets the trickiness of gendered life and causes problems, like in women's prisons, women's shelters, women's changing rooms, and so on. It will be interesting to watch. As far as I can see right now women's sport is over. I have read the research about hormones negating birth gender advantage - I don't believe it, not from the physiques I am seeing. Trans Female to Male will rarely best a birth male. Trans Male to Female is very likely to best a birth female in most sports. Females from birth will simply have to remove themselves from the arena to avoid injury at the very least.

The crazy thing is in stating my opinion thus I have probably offended trans-activists and supporters so deeply on many levels, and will be called trans-phobic and a hate-speaker, and that is not my intention at all. I am simply reporting how I see it on a simple physical, biological level.

Tenigate · 28-02-2018 8:22pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Women's world records are generally 90% that of men's according to this article

Well it's simple.
Simply reduce an XY female's testosterone level, and her muscle will deteriorate and bone density will reduce. That's part of it.
Now file down her bones and destroy part of her lung capacity. And pop in a female reproductive system.
And hey presto..
You got yourself a bonfide female.

My view. Either abolish female categories altogether, or redefine the category to exclude anyone and everyone with Y chromosomes. You don't need to specify their gender or sex or anything else. We're just talking about a genetic advantage and a separate division for people without that advantage.

todders · 28-02-2018 8:42pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It sites a couple of different studies.

Even a basic look at world records or winning times for each gender across individual sports will show big differences.

Studies you've read and verified separately to this one article?

Galwayguy35 · 28-02-2018 8:54pm

This can only be a good thing, it will encourage the women to up their game.

coffee_cake · 28-02-2018 8:59pm

While they are female i am surprised it doesn't fall under doping rules

pleas advice · 28-02-2018 9:01pm

If there are gold medals won, or records broken, I can see these being stripped by ruling bodies in the future

todders · 28-02-2018 9:09pm

bluewolf wrote: »

While they are female i am surprised it doesn't fall under doping rules

Why?

Noveight · 28-02-2018 9:09pm

Reminds me of the story of Laurel Hubbard (formerly Gavin), a trans weightlifter from New Zealand.

She'll be competing in the 2018 Commonwealth games in April. The results of those events should be interesting to see.

Biological males in women's sport

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