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Time to get rid of USC, Property tax

  • 15-12-2018 4:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    The recession is over. People are back to filling a few hundred quid into their petrol V8 Range Rover and Jetski on the trailer behind it that they only bought because the bank manager told them it was a good idea. So time to get rid of these miserable recession-era taxes for good.


    With the Single Malt loophole closing soon our overlords will be swimming with money so what better opportunity to give the ordinary people a break from the bullsh1t we've had to put up with for the past 10 years. Besides, the more tax we give them the more they'll waste


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Quite agree. But I would bring back the Income Levy and the Health Levy/Contribution. And Domestic Rates.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Property tax should stay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Property tax should stay.


    Would you miss it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Besides, the more tax we give them the more they'll waste


    This is an actual fact


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,883 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Where's your yella vest, caller?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services. Most of it is spent on the civil services wages who constantly want to do less work for more money. Some might counter if we got good services would i accept high taxes. Answer no heard it so bloody often just give me my money back and i will take care of myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    This is what they waste it on.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Townton wrote: »
    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services. Most of it is spent on the civil services wages who constantly want to do less work for more money. Some might counter if we got good services would i accept high taxes. Answer no heard it so bloody often just give me my money back and i will take care of myself.

    Rubbish


  • Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    Could there be a rebate whereby if you pay a certain amount of tax, you get a bottle of Champers as a thank-you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Neither are going anywhere. Hopefully nobody is shocked at this stage that we were lied to.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Townton wrote: »
    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services. Most of it is spent on the civil services wages who constantly want to do less work for more money. Some might counter if we got good services would i accept high taxes. Answer no heard it so bloody often just give me my money back and i will take care of myself.

    When Property Tax and Motor Tax was abolished, the income tax rate for average earnings went up to 60%. I would prefer less tax on earnings, and more on assets, and more direct charges for services. If you are going to look after yourself you will need to build a road from your house to everywhere you want to travel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    vicwatson wrote: »
    This is an actual fact

    Government is inherently wasteful, only thing more sure then death and taxes is that government will waset a large percentage of the taxes it takes. Case in point the 15 million spent on moving the offices of the health department to a new building which lay empty for over a year with the main delay being mid level civil servents squabbling over if they would have their own office or an open plan. In the real world people would lose theor job for that in ireland it get a little bit of coverage in thw news papers. No inquire, no explanation and certainly no apology to the people whos money they took and spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    When Property Tax and Motor Tax was abolished, the income tax rate for average earnings went up to 60%. I would prefer less tax on earnings, and more on assets, and more direct charges for services. If you are going to look after yourself you will need to build a road from your house to everywhere you want to travel.

    Please dont use such a simplistic line of argument. I didnt say no taxes i said less. This idea that less taxes equals no raod is ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    need to be paying a lot more carbon taxes but until stuff like the HSE is nuked from orbit I'm opposed to tax increases on the basis that the government does not have the competence to deliver a myriad of basic services. there are also almost a million people in gainful employment who pay virtually no income tax. Everyone needs to be paying something before the middle income cows are milked any further.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Townton wrote: »
    Please dont use such a simplistic line of argument. I didnt say no taxes i said less. This idea that less taxes equals no raod is ridiculous.

    I misunderstood. I thought you meant you wanted all your money back?

    just give me my money back and i will take care of myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    need to be paying a lot more carbon taxes but until stuff like the HSE is nuked from orbit I'm opposed to tax increases on the basis that the government does not have the competence to deliver a myriad of basic services. there are also almost a million people in gainful employment who pay virtually no income tax. Everyone needs to be paying something before the middle income cows are milked any further.

    As always I like to establish what someone means by middle income. To me it is about €80,000 a year for a two adult household.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Townton wrote: »
    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services. Most of it is spent on the civil services wages who constantly want to do less work for more money. Some might counter if we got good services would i accept high taxes. Answer no heard it so bloody often just give me my money back and i will take care of myself.

    You probably mean public sector wages, but, it's ok, brain farts and inaccurate rants are what After Hours is all about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    As always I like to establish what someone means by middle income. To me it is about €80,000 a year for a two adult household.
    yep I'd go along with that. Anywhere from 70-90k per household I'd call middle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Would you miss it?

    I don’t like any tax tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    need to be paying a lot more carbon taxes but until stuff like the HSE is nuked from orbit I'm opposed to tax increases on the basis that the government does not have the competence to deliver a myriad of basic services. there are also almost a million people in gainful employment who pay virtually no income tax. Everyone needs to be paying something before the middle income cows are milked any further.


    We can get around the carbon tax problem by building a powerstation just south of the border but with it's chimney in the post-Brexit north.


    Even private companies waste a good share of money in my experience, the government has to be about 10 times worse. Stuff like software licenses that nobody uses or where there's free alternatives available, taking up prime real estate when they could move further out of town, All the efforts spent complying with overbearing regulation that they created for themselves.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    We can get around the carbon tax problem by building a powerstation just south of the border but with it's chimney in the post-Brexit north.


    Even private companies waste a good share of money in my experience, the government has to be about 10 times worse. Stuff like software licenses that nobody uses or where there's free alternatives available, taking up prime real estate when they could move further out of town, All the efforts spent complying with overbearing regulation that they created for themselves.

    start making senior public servants personally liable for financial mismanagement and waste or public money.

    Also, Institutional bureaucracies never make themselves smaller. They are self perpetuating systems. They thrive on regulations and breed public reliance - the infantilisation of the nation.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The main issue I have with property tax is that it is largely out of the individual's control. With other taxes I can choose to pay less, by for example earning less, or not buying something, or in the case of car tax going for a smaller engine, leccy motor etc. Having property tax linked to house value, values that are out of the homeowner's hands is unfair IMHO. It also places more burden on certain areas, so Dublin pays a helluva lot more than other areas in Ireland. The "well you can always move house/downsize" is a silly argument that has little practical use unless you're actively looking to buy and where you buy isn't based on where your job/extended family/schools for your kids etc are.

    The "well other countries have the same tax" is not much of an argument either. So what? IMHO a fair chunk of these extra taxes are to keep the already squeezed middle so squeezed that they stay compliant and good little citizen consumers.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    As we move away from fossil fuels and towards electric vehicles. Prepare to see new taxes to make up for the loss in fuel taxes and motor taxes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    start making senior public servants personally liable for financial mismanagement and waste or public money.

    I could see that being a goldmine for the private sector legal profession. Someone could be bankrupted and left homeless if a multi million project went over budget. I think they would probably resort to law in that circumstance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,017 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    People concerned about bloody tax on a Saturday evening

    Have a drink and relax

    You are a long time dead


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    People concerned about bloody tax on a Saturday evening

    Have a drink and relax

    You are a long time dead




    Indeed. Home brewed of course. Tastes better knowing the taxman didn't gain a cent from it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Indeed. Home brewed of course. Tastes better.

    Sorted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    No issue with property tax here. I'd rather local government had more money paid directly to them, which in turn gives them more power over their local area. Too much money flows down from the Dáil, it gives TDs too much influence at a local level.

    USC was introduced by Fianna Fail as an emergency tax to fill the gaping hole in taxation left by their financial mismanagement.

    Turns out that it can't just be abolished without getting the money from somewhere else...

    Contrary to popular belief, we are not highly tax in comparison to other developed countries of our size. However, our tax base is badly weighted and the load needs to be spread more evenly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,329 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The main issue I have with property tax is that it is largely out of the individual's control. With other taxes I can choose to pay less, by for example earning less, or not buying something, or in the case of car tax going for a smaller engine, leccy motor etc. Having property tax linked to house value, values that are out of the homeowner's hands is unfair IMHO. It also places more burden on certain areas, so Dublin pays a helluva lot more than other areas in Ireland. The "well you can always move house/downsize" is a silly argument that has little practical use unless you're actively looking to buy and where you buy isn't based on where your job/extended family/schools for your kids etc are.

    The "well other countries have the same tax" is not much of an argument either. So what? IMHO a fair chunk of these extra taxes are to keep the already squeezed middle so squeezed that they stay compliant and good little citizen consumers.

    The so what is that when Property Tax and Motor Tax was abolished before it led to super high income tax. Which prompted the massive tax marches, much larger than anything seen about water recently. And led to services charges, later to become bin charges. The irony was that the same people gave Fianna Fail the biggest ever majority a few years earlier. Swallowing the line that everything could be paid for from central taxation.

    It is hardly on a whim that every country in the world has a system of property tax.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    The so what is that when Property Tax and Motor Tax was abolished before it led to super high income tax. Which prompted the massive tax marches, much larger than anything seen about water recently. And led to services charges, later to become bin charges. The irony was that the same people gave Fianna Fail the biggest ever majority a few years earlier. Swallowing the line that everything could be paid for from central taxation.

    It is hardly on a whim that every country in the world has a system of property tax.


    But we could get rid of both the USC and the property tax. Property tax euros are worth no more than regular ones, nor are the USC euros worth more. It shouldn't be terribly hard to make savings equal to the sum of both and with the Single Malt closing we could even lumber on with our wasteful ways and not bother with either of these taxes.


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