Physical Media Not Dead Says New HMV Owner.

Technocentral · 05-02-2019 12:02pm #1

Very surprising buying 100 physical media stores and seems adamant: "We know the physical media business is here to stay" Anyone agree.

"By catering to music and entertainment lovers, we are incredibly excited about the opportunity to engage customers with a diverse range of physical format content and replicate our success in Canada.
"We know the physical media business is here to stay and we greatly appreciate all the support from the suppliers, landlords, employees and, most importantly, our customers," he added.

Frank O. Pinion · 05-02-2019 12:19pm

He'd be wrong.

mloc123 · 05-02-2019 12:21pm

How many times has HMV been sold now? It seems to open and close every 3-4 months in Liffey Valley at least

Gravelly · 05-02-2019 12:24pm

Physical media isn't dead, however it is now a minority requirement, therefore it is difficult to see how a high street chain store could survive catering to a very small sector of the population. Physical media sales are catered for by sections in the likes of Tesco, CEX etc. - can't see an entire store, not to mention a chain of them having a future.

Technocentral · 05-02-2019 12:26pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Physical media isn't dead, however it is now a minority requirement, therefore it is difficult to see how a high street chain store could survive catering to a very small sector of the population. Physical media sales are catered for by sections in the likes of Tesco, CEX etc. - can't see an entire store, not to mention a chain of them having a future.

I agree, but why would a successful businessman buy 100 stores knowing all that, it's interesting.

Gravelly · 05-02-2019 12:28pm

Technocentral wrote: »

I agree, but why would a succesful bussiness man buy 100 stores knowing ali that, its interesting.

It is - can't figure it myself, I'd assumed they had some other plan for them, but going by his announcement, it seems not.

johnny_ultimate · 05-02-2019 12:31pm

I don't think physical media is dead, but I think the HMV model is more or less dead.

I still buy Blu-Rays frequently - if anything, the medium has only become more vital as companies like Arrow, Criterion, Masters of Cinema etc... continue to dig deep into cinema history and release loving, generous restorations of all kinds of classics. From obscure B-Movies or neglected arthouse oddities to insanely lavish collections dedicated to the world's best filmmakers, none of the streaming platforms come close to offering the variety and quality you can find in physical media releases. Long may it continue, as far as I'm concerned - it's genuinely helped me towards a far broader understanding of film history than I'd otherwise have managed.

Equally, I'm aware the above is a niche market - and the companies that survive (and in some cases thrive) have evolved to focus on a small but hopefully sustainable group of collectors and cinephiles. I'm not sure the HMV model fits with that - I'd imagine the vast amount of purchasing is done online. While I'd hate to see physical media stores disappearing - there's still something satisfying about browsing Tower Records, the IFI bookshop, or Fopp and the BFI store in the UK - I buy most things online and directly from the distributors involved when I can. The situation is more dire from the more ‘high street’ chains than the small, independent vinyl stores and the like (some of which will likely continue to have modest success).

So no, physical media isn't dead - but HMV will almost certainly remain on life support until the plug is eventually pulled.

pixelburp · 05-02-2019 12:34pm

He's either naive or it's some kind of tax / financial voodoo I'd estimate.

It's a fair comment, there's still a place for physical media - I recently bought 3 blu-rays. I like owning my favourite films, and at the end of the day, the key & obvious flaw in Cloud Services is that once said service disappears, so will your access to all that content.

Obviously physical discs can be rendered obsolete through the hardware (neither my or my wife's laptop have a disc drive), but the sense of ownership, ones own copy of the thing, always trumps subscribed access IMO.

Technocentral · 05-02-2019 12:34pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

I agree, but why would a succesful bussiness man buy 100 stores knowing ali that, its interesting.

It is - can't figure it myself, I'd assumed they had some other plan for them, but going by his announcement, it seems not.

They said they would be concentrating on vinyl, I only buy vinyl myself but its a tiny niche product and not the basis for a successful multi chain business model, bizzare.

BuffaloTengo · 05-02-2019 2:08pm

Good to see him giving it a go.
For me it boils down to quality. I subscribe to Netflix HD and while it's decent quality it's nowhere near the quality of a blu ray.
As was mentioned above there are a lot of labels releasing older films on blu ray which is great, and for me at least watching a film of a big tv screen trumps watching on a phone any day.......I realise I may be in the minority in that regard these days!

Fysh · 05-02-2019 2:19pm

Technocentral wrote: »

They said they would be concentrating on vinyl, I only buy vinyl myself but its a tiny niche product and not the basis for a successful multi chain business model, bizzare.

The limited edition market for vinyl has been absolutely bananas in recent years, as in tiny runs in different colours on top of the standard editions. You've only to look at the likes of the Rough Trade stores and their listings to see that there's evidently a market. Vinyl sales have been growing substantially and IIRC have overtaken CDs in the last year (more because CD sales have fallen off a cliff, but even so...)

Whether it's big enough to sustain 100 shops where the last 2-3 owners haven't managed it remains to be seen.

I value physical media for films more so than for music on the basis that DRM has never gone away for films, whereas for music I can easily buy DRM free digital copies. So if I want a copy of a film I can retain long term access to, it needs to be a Blu-ray disc that I manually rip (the sad joke that are the various iterations of Ultraviolet etc can go and do one, frankly). On top of which, the comparison to the digital market for games is relevant - there are already a number of games that either can't be bought at all any more or can't be had in their original form due to stupid licensing nonsense (e.g. the Scott Pilgrim Xbox Live/PSN game is not available at all, while the digital copy of GTA V on Steam etc no longer has the same music because the rights expired). And that's before you get to things like being able to get source media for transformative works like fanedits (many of which are junk but a few of which are fantastic in their own right).

Technocentral · 05-02-2019 3:03pm

From the Guardian:

"Putman, 34, has a decent track record. His Canadian music chain Sunrise Records has grown from just five stores when he bought it in 2014 to 84 stores today. The bulk of that expansion came in 2017 when he bought 70 of HMV’s stores in Canada after the chain went bust there. Putman says the gamble has paid off, with those stores now making a profit.

The music mogul has has compared record shopping to a “treasure hunt”, leading customers to something unexpected, and claims the key to making a music shop work is offering customers depth of choice.

He told Spill Magazine that while most shops might offer Fleetwood Mac fans a greatest hits collection or the 1977 classic album Rumours, Sunrise stocks a greater choice. “Rather than having what I call the ‘basics’, we would offer Tusk and Tango in the Night. It takes it deeper and it gives the customer that assortment in the store.”

Interesting to see if the UK marketplace is like Canada and if he can replicate his success there, whatever about HMV I'd hate to see Tower go, the last big physical media stores (esp Dawson Street) left in Ireland

[Deleted User] · 05-02-2019 3:26pm

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

He'd be wrong.

Not for film, unless streaming sites are going to bump their data transmission to insane heights. 4K BluRays are far superior to any streaming service and I am certainly do not have enough storage media to cover disks.

Charging an insane premium for 4K discs will kill physical media far quicker than technological reasons.

Frank O. Pinion · 05-02-2019 5:25pm

It doesn't matter what's superior, what are millennials and the next generation doing? Going to the cinema, watching Netflix, or the more savvy, downloading torrents. Not spending their little disposable income on expensive discs.

murpho999 · 05-02-2019 9:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not for film, unless streaming sites are going to bump their data transmission to insane heights. 4K BluRays are far superior to any streaming service and I am certainly do not have enough storage media to cover disks.

Charging an insane premium for 4K discs will kill physical media far quicker than technological reasons.

I think it's only a matter of time as broadband and mobile networks get faster and broader.

I'd say on a few years to come streaming quality will surpass blu ray 4k.

For most people 4k on offer now on Netflix will suffice and discs are becoming a niche market for purists and collectors.

I myself don't buy discs as prefer to have a digital library that is easier to access and does not take up much physical space.

[Deleted User] · 05-02-2019 9:07pm

murpho999 wrote: »

I think it's only a matter of time as broadband and mobile networks get faster and broader.

I'd say on a few years to come streaming quality will surpass blu ray 4k.

For most people 4k on offer now on Netflix will suffice and discs are becoming a niche market for purists and collectors.

I myself don't buy discs as prefer to have a digital library that is easier to access and does not take up much physical space.

I have spent far too much on a good screen and sound system to bother with digital, for tentpole shows.
Also very hard to find good quality older films and I am no purist.
Just waste of money having good equipment and sending a substandard content through it

murpho999 · 05-02-2019 9:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have spent far too much on a good screen and sound system to bother with digital, for tentpole shows.
Also very hard to find good quality older films and I am no purist.
Just waste of money having good equipment and sending a substandard content through it

As I said you're in a minority and and as I also said in the near future streaming and downloading will give access to the quality you want.

super_furry · 05-02-2019 9:14pm

I think they're banking on Blu-Ray and physical movie media having the same soft of resurgence they vinyl LPs have had. Not sure that's going to happen.

[Deleted User] · 05-02-2019 9:20pm

murpho999 wrote: »

As I said you're in a minority and and as I also said in the near future streaming and downloading will give access to the quality you want.

The future is pointless, it is not now and storage is not exactly cheap.
Also never mind my country address, my city based parents are getting a whopping 25Mb of speed for their connection. Not even enough for Netflix semi 4K.

As for streaming, sick of losing access to films already and that is only getting worse as the studios launch more and more services.
Flixter and UltraViolet have been nothing but a pain in the arse and now you have to jump through hoops to get access to films you already own (have a licence to watch really), as their "services" are no more.

All Vs opening the tray of the player and inserting which ever disc I want to put in.

What is killing 4K is the cost of the disc being a rip off. There are plenty of people who, rightfully, refuse to pay €40 for a new release who would otherwise have a disc based system still.

murpho999 · 05-02-2019 9:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The future is pointless, it is not now and storage is not exactly cheap.
Also never mind my country address, my city based parents are getting a whopping 25Mb of speed for their connection. Not even enough for Netflix semi 4K.

As for streaming, sick of losing access to films already and that is only getting worse as the studios launch more and more services.
Flixter and UltraViolet have been nothing but a pain in the arse and now you have to jump through hoops to get access to films you already own (have a licence to watch really), as their "services" are no more.

All Vs opening the tray of the player and inserting which ever disc I want to put in.

What is killing 4K is the cost of the disc being a rip off. There are plenty of people who, rightfully, refuse to pay €40 for a new release who would otherwise have a disc based system still.

Of course the future is not pointless. It's what we're discussing as we're saying that HMV is facing a bleak future.

I have no idea about the services you're talking about so can't comment but I'm sure better ones will come.

As for broadband, majority of people have access to good broadband now despite what many say. Currently have 360mb with Virgin and I'd guess in 5 years time that 10gb will be normal and that will most llikey kill off discs altogether.

That's the point I'm making not your own personal current situation.

Also, totally agree about 4k prices they are ridiculous but a sign of the limited market. If they were selling more then they'd be cheaper.

Snake Plisken · 05-02-2019 9:52pm

Physical media isn't dead I am currently gearing up for a move into 4K that means re-buying some of my favourite movies like The Dark Knight trilogy Arrival Logan etc on 4K Blu-ray. Unfortunately the best deals for physical media are now online so I don't think bricks and mortar shops will survive. I do use streaming services like Netflix and Spotify and will probably buy 4K movies on Apple TV that I have a little interest in and when they are on sale.

Ruraldweller56 · 05-02-2019 9:56pm

pixelburp wrote: »

He's either naive or it's some kind of tax / financial voodoo I'd estimate.

It's a fair comment, there's still a place for physical media - I recently bought 3 blu-rays. I like owning my favourite films, and at the end of the day, the key & obvious flaw in Cloud Services is that once said service disappears, so will your access to all that content.

Obviously physical discs can be rendered obsolete through the hardware (neither my or my wife's laptop have a disc drive), but the sense of ownership, ones own copy of the thing, always trumps subscribed access IMO.

Yes I'd agree largely. I like owning my own blu-rays dvds cds etc. I normally buy my stuff from zavvi or some other kind of online retailer though.

Im not sure about the need for a store as such.

[Deleted User] · 05-02-2019 10:05pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course the future is not pointless. It's what we're discussing as we're saying that HMV is facing a bleak future.

Holographic entertainment is in the "future* should we just wait until then?

HMV may (will) not work but online storrs are easy to use. Wait 5 years or use a disc?? Hmmmm...

murpho999 · 05-02-2019 10:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Holographic entertainment is in the "future* should we just wait until then?

HMV may (will) not work but online storrs are easy to use. Wait 5 years or use a disc?? Hmmmm...

Bloody hell, I never said that you should stop doing what you're doing.

Saying in the future that it internet services will most likely wipe out physical media.

I'm not talking about now at all.

[Deleted User] · 05-02-2019 10:27pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Bloody hell, I never said that you should stop doing what you're doing.

Saying in the future that it internet services will most likely wipe out physical media.

I'm not talking about now at all.

But I am talking about now. Physical media is not dead and if they were not being greedy would be flying for another 3-5 years. And then, yes, speeds and capacity may very well have caught up enough to warrant the demise of physical media.

Relikk · 05-02-2019 11:28pm

There's no way I'm ever going to rely on a "digital library" for anything as long as a physical format exists for whatever it is I want to buy.

Wedwood · 06-02-2019 12:00am

Got Apple TV 4K recently, a big plus is if you've already purchased a movie on iTunes, you get a free upgrade to 4K HDR. Plus you can get regular offers e.g. recently got Independence Day 4K HDR for €2.99. Video quality is close enough to disc, albeit disc has higher bit rate. That said Apple do really good compression so you have to really scrutinise to spot the difference in quality.

Netflix, €12 per month, loads of movies/shows in HD/4K/HDR, can't argue with that. Similar video/sound quality as iTunes.

That said, I've kept all my DVDs and BluRays, they all still work perfectly and work with each new generation of disc player/computer/console.

murpho999 · 06-02-2019 1:17am

Relikk wrote: »

There's no way I'm ever going to rely on a "digital library" for anything as long as a physical format exists for whatever it is I want to buy.

Why?
What if the future digital was better quality then any physical media?

Physical media can get lost or damaged. Digital can always be associated to your account and downloaded again.

jh79 · 06-02-2019 9:31am

murpho999 wrote: »

Why?
What if the future digital was better quality then any physical media?

Physical media can get lost or damaged. Digital can always be associated to your account and downloaded again.

On itunes etc you own the product only for as long as they have the licencing agreement. If that goes then the movie goes too.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/7247003/itunes-movies-apple-own-buy-rent/

murpho999 · 06-02-2019 9:55am

jh79 wrote: »

On itunes etc you own the product only for as long as they have the licencing agreement. If that goes then the movie goes too.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/7247003/itunes-movies-apple-own-buy-rent/

Oh yes The Sun, a fine quality journal.

Sorry I just don't read that.

[Deleted User] · 06-02-2019 9:59am

murpho999 wrote: »

Oh yes The Sun, a fine quality journal.

Sorry I just don't read that.

He is right though. You do not own the media, only the access rights to it on that platform.

And they will not allow you to download disc quality copies.

Physical Media Not Dead Says New HMV Owner.

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