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Accommodation & Property>How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP
handlemaster 07:52 18-02-2019
so what is the consensus, can someone buy or not in their thirties ?I think alot of people think housing should be easy to get , with little work or savings
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Geuze 08:49 18-02-2019
Originally Posted by Yurt!:
2015 the median for full time workers was 32k gross. 4 year old figures I know, but I'd severely doubt that it now approaches your suggested 42k figure. Particularly when two salaried households will be claiming a host of tax reliefs and social transfers.

For reference, the *average* FT figure was 45k (CSO) in 2015.

So conditions haven't changed all that much.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...#37;3fmode=amp

Yurt,

note that a few years ago somebody wrote an article in the IT saying that median earnings were 28k. I didn't believe it.

It's a pity the CSO don't publish median earnings.

But Eurostat do.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/la...nings/database


Median earnings from the 2014 SES are in Eurostat, just hard to find.

2014 median earnings = 41,829 for FT workers.

That is in "Industry, construction and services (except public administration, defense, compulsory social security)"


EDIT: Yurt, I see now that the IT article I am thinking of is the one you linked to. There is no evidence to support this statement in the article:

Median earnings are estimated at €28,500 last year for all those at work.
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Naos 09:06 18-02-2019
Originally Posted by Geuze:

2014 median earnings = 41,829 for FT workers.

That is in "Industry, construction and services (except public administration, defense, compulsory social security)"
To be fair, that's about 300k out of 2m workers that the median wage is not accounting for.
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jim-mcdee 09:13 18-02-2019
Originally Posted by lainey_d_123:
It's insane how many people just accept that 'that's the way it is'. Accept that they were born to spend their lives commuting two hours each way five days a week and then sit in their tiny village in the middle of nowhere all weekend eating beans on toast on their own just so they can pay the mortgage on their shoddily built house, which they bought so they could go to work in Dublin every day. Do none of these people ever question any of this?
Nobody should accept that. The fact is quite a few people CHOOSE to do just that. Well not as extreme as you put it but similar. I read an article a while ago about a bunch of guys that commute from Limerick to Dublin daily. The particular guy had a good job and had been doing the commute 10+ years. He could have easily gotten a same job in Limerick. But he choose to commute to have access to higher paid jobs in Dublin. Horses for courses or whatever they say. Yes it is insane, but there are insane people out there.
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GreeBo 09:15 18-02-2019
Originally Posted by Naos:
To be fair, that's about 300k out of 2m workers that the median wage is not accounting for.
Or all of those 2M full time workers or does that include part time/temporary workers?
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jacdaniel2014 09:23 18-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by handlemaster:
so what is the consensus, can someone buy or not in their thirties ?I think alot of people think housing should be easy to get , with little work or savings
The answer is yes, but you'll need an above average job if you want to live in Dublin.

Nobody thinks it should be easy, but it shouldn't be this hard either.

Trying to rent in Dublin and save for a deposit is hell. I know because I just moved into my new house after years of renting.
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Eric Cartman 13:04 18-02-2019 (2 Thanks)
Originally Posted by DubJJ:
Neither of these statements are without merit as they are both referring to different periods of time.
Personally I believe that the restrictions that are in place at the moment are necessary to stop the prices inflating even higher, but the bigger issue is the credit that was available 10+ years ago which allowed prices to go of the rails in the first place.
Originally Posted by handlemaster:
so what is the consensus, can someone buy or not in their thirties ?I think alot of people think housing should be easy to get , with little work or savings
I think the concensus is :

people who are a double income household with no dependents over 120k can just about buy in dublin , either an apartment in somewhere well serviced or in a soulless housing estate thats an hour commute out.

Anyone who does not fit that description is relegated to a house in a really rough estate in a few areas that have long standing issues with drugs and gang violence , but thats only for those with a 70K + income

anyone without a 70k income, dependents or any other circumstances is pretty much left 1.5 hours commute minimum from dublin but that might be fine if they have a job elsewhere.

the division seems to come from whether something should be done to enable people on 70k a year to live in dublin or not. SOme say no, others say yes.

The real lesson I think ive learned here is though, if I was an unskilled worker or making <30k a year id be applying to every job in sligo/roscommon/leitrim , you can have a house bought and a better standard of living there on 20k than you can in dublin for 45k. Rural Ireland is definitely an avenue more lower earners should explore.
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GreeBo 13:14 18-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:
I think the concensus is :

people who are a double income household with no dependents over 120k can just about buy in dublin , either an apartment in somewhere well serviced or in a soulless housing estate thats an hour commute out.
I think this is nonsense. On 120k with or without dependents you can more than "just about" buy in Dublin.
Most "housing estates" are an hour commute out, soulless or otherwise. How long do you think it takes to commute from the Dublin suburbs? Sure you could be an hour from Templeogue to city centre. Is Templeogue a soulless housing estate?

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:

Anyone who does not fit that description is relegated to a house in a really rough estate in a few areas that have long standing issues with drugs and gang violence , but thats only for those with a 70K + income

anyone without a 70k income, dependents or any other circumstances is pretty much left 1.5 hours commute minimum from dublin but that might be fine if they have a job elsewhere.

the division seems to come from whether something should be done to enable people on 70k a year to live in dublin or not. SOme say no, others say yes.
Again, to summarise.
"poorer people live in poorer areas than richer people do" Exactly how it works all over the world and it always has worked.

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:
The real lesson I think ive learned here is though, if I was an unskilled worker or making <30k a year id be applying to every job in sligo/roscommon/leitrim , you can have a house bought and a better standard of living there on 20k than you can in dublin for 45k. Rural Ireland is definitely an avenue more lower earners should explore.
Which is exactly the counter-argument that has been proposed on this thread over and over again.
Stop trying to live in Dublin if you can't afford to.
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zedhead 13:27 18-02-2019 (4 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:
I think the concensus is :

people who are a double income household with no dependents over 120k can just about buy in dublin , either an apartment in somewhere well serviced or in a soulless housing estate thats an hour commute out.

Anyone who does not fit that description is relegated to a house in a really rough estate in a few areas that have long standing issues with drugs and gang violence , but thats only for those with a 70K + income

anyone without a 70k income, dependents or any other circumstances is pretty much left 1.5 hours commute minimum from dublin but that might be fine if they have a job elsewhere.

the division seems to come from whether something should be done to enable people on 70k a year to live in dublin or not. SOme say no, others say yes.

The real lesson I think ive learned here is though, if I was an unskilled worker or making <30k a year id be applying to every job in sligo/roscommon/leitrim , you can have a house bought and a better standard of living there on 20k than you can in dublin for 45k. Rural Ireland is definitely an avenue more lower earners should explore.
This isnt true. We bought just over a year ago with combined income of 80k. One of us self employed so not the most attractive for mortage from the banks. We saved the deposit in 4 years while renting in dublin with no help from parents or lump sums to add and at the time we started saving we were each earning less than 25k each (while paying rent and bills). We got a semi d in dublin in a safe and quiet part of one of the 'undersirable' areas people keep talking about, and in the time since we bought the selling prices of the houses around us have not gone up much since then.

While luck plays a small part in how your life turns out, you can't write off peoples ahrd work and determination. I worked really hard to get what I want, and this idea that I was just lucky in my circumstances disregards that all together. I have an arts degree, started my job just over 5 years as an administrator (after making stupid career choices in my 20's) and within 5 years, through hard work and determination (and no additional studying) have doubled my salary and increased my future prospects.

Yes the above is not realistic for a single person, but again why should it be. A single person does not have the same housing needs as a couple. We have friends who have bought singly in the past few years, it wasnt easy and they all had to make compromises on their dream home in terms of location, size, property type but it is possible.

Its not easy, and for some it may be out of reach. But if you just decide the market is useless and you don't even try you will never get there.
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Eric Cartman 13:30 18-02-2019
Originally Posted by zedhead:
This isnt true. We bought just over a year ago with combined income of 80k. One of us self employed so not the most attractive for mortage from the banks. We saved the deposit in 4 years while renting in dublin with no help from parents or lump sums to add and at the time we started saving we were each earning less than 25k each (while paying rent and bills). We got a semi d in dublin in a safe and quiet part of one of the 'undersirable' areas people keep talking about, and in the time since we bought the selling prices of the houses around us have not gone up much since then.

While luck plays a small part in how your life turns out, you can't write off peoples ahrd work and determination. I worked really hard to get what I want, and this idea that I was just lucky in my circumstances disregards that all together. I have an arts degree, started my job just over 5 years as an administrator (after making stupid career choices in my 20's) and within 5 years, through hard work and determination (and no additional studying) have doubled my salary and increased my future prospects.

Yes the above is not realistic for a single person, but again why should it be. A single person does not have the same housing needs as a couple. We have friends who have bought singly in the past few years, it wasnt easy and they all had to make compromises on their dream home in terms of location, size, property type but it is possible.

Its not easy, and for some it may be out of reach. But if you just decide the market is useless and you don't even try you will never get there.
so basically what I said was correct....
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limnam 13:34 18-02-2019 (2 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:
so basically what I said was correct....



Safe and quiet doesn't sound like what you said...
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zedhead 13:42 18-02-2019 (5 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman:
so basically what I said was correct....
No we are in a safe and quiet area with little crime and very nice neighbours. All of the 'undesirable areas' people keep spouting about have pockets like this if you do a bit of research and adjust your expectations. Would I have liked to buy down the road from where i grew up, of course. But I couldn't afford it so I had to look further a field. I was realistic about what we could afford and found something that met as many of my requirements as possible.
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