The Academies

bilston · 06-02-2013 5:31pm

hendo12 wrote: »

I hear Billy Dardis is joining Leicester Tigers

If he's as good as some people on here say then that would be a very strange move.

Winters · 06-02-2013 5:44pm

Why do the English and French clubs not have as many players coming through their academies as Irish provinces? Their playing numbers would suggest they should have the same if not more homegrown players in each club.

Hagz · 06-02-2013 5:48pm

Winters wrote: »

Why do the English and French clubs not have as many players coming through their academies as Irish provinces? Their playing numbers would suggest they should have the same if not more homegrown players in each club.

I would say they do. Northampton's u19's have played Leinster's u19 twice and beat us. Leicester aren't looking for Dardis, that's a lie.

Tox56 · 06-02-2013 5:53pm

Hagz wrote: »

I would say they do. Northampton's u19's have played Leinster's u19 twice and beat us. Leicester aren't looking for Dardis, that's a lie.

Did the U19's not beat them last time?

Hagz · 06-02-2013 5:55pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Did the U19's not beat them last time?

Yeh, but they beat us in '11

Tox56 · 06-02-2013 6:04pm

Hagz wrote: »

Yeh, but they beat us in '11

Yeah sorry misread your post

Winters · 06-02-2013 6:31pm

Do the English clubs have a non home union qualified quota like the Irish provinces?

irishbucsfan · 06-02-2013 6:38pm

Winters wrote: »

Do the English clubs have a non home union qualified quota like the Irish provinces?

No. It'd be great for the game here if they introduced it.

English academy sides are generally very strong. Not sure what stops those players coming through.

Tox56 · 06-02-2013 6:56pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No. It'd be great for the game here if they introduced it.

English academy sides are generally very strong. Not sure what stops those players coming through.

Interesting system the English academies have, I think they tend to be younger than over here, so I don't know what happens to them if they don't make the first team. Leinster don't really have an academy team, but we've sent underage teams over to play Northampton and Leicester over the last few years, and they're generally pretty evenly matched. I have no idea the make-up of these academy teams though, or how they compare to the Irish underage teams.

irishbucsfan · 06-02-2013 7:15pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Interesting system the English academies have, I think they tend to be younger than over here, so I don't know what happens to them if they don't make the first team. Leinster don't really have an academy team, but we've sent underage teams over to play Northampton and Leicester over the last few years, and they're generally pretty evenly matched. I have no idea the make-up of these academy teams though, or how they compare to the Irish underage teams.

I played against a tigers academy team. I never thought to work out how it was formed or selected.

I know an exiles coach, ill ask him how it works

English Lurker · 06-02-2013 8:07pm

We have plenty of kids coming through. Our recent U20 squads have boasted ridiculously high amounts of Premiership experience. The current EPS squad has 5 kids in it born in 1991. The spring is running a little dry, but largely because academy graduates are now having to displace 23 year olds instead of 31 year olds. Thanks to the Championship, we've got a handy 'second chance' pool for youngsters who don't make it first time around, such as Ed Jackson - cut loose from Bath, now back in the Premiership scoring tries with London Welsh.

So, no, we don't need the likes of Billy Dardis. However, the clubs would like him very much. The clubs will take any good player, and I understand this is far from the first time they've sniffed around young Irish players. And it could make sense for him. Even with the recent glut of academy graduates, I'd still say we had less of a logjam for young players than the Irish provinces do. Yes, he will never fulfil international ambitions at an English club, but he doesn't have to stay here for ever. As a general theoretical point, it would be quite possible for him to break through early, get a load of gametime, then go home aged 21/22 with all the experience needed to head straight into his provincial team ahead of his peers who stayed home and collected less experience. In this specific case, in which Leicester aren't known for giving our tons of gametime to youngsters and Leinster have gaps opening up in their back three, and we are talking about a special talent, maybe not.

themont85 · 06-02-2013 8:40pm

Geordan Murphy might have an impact here from Dardis's POV. Both are ex Newbridge though I don't know what the vibe is like there after Dardis left them.

Hagz · 06-02-2013 9:04pm

*Facepalm.

opinionatedfan · 06-02-2013 9:16pm

Hagz wrote: »

. Leicester aren't looking for Dardis, that's a lie.

what makes you say that?

Hagz · 06-02-2013 9:24pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

what makes you say that?

1. I've been around this forum long enough to know that any sort of rumour surrounding players who are still in school is fabricated 99% of the time.

2. The poster has amassed a total of 5 posts. That's not his fault, but it certainly affects how reliable a source he/she is.

3. Why on earth would a)Billy Dardis join Leicester Tigers when he's guaranteed an Academy place in Leinster b)Leicester Tigers have any interest in a player who hasn't even represented Leinster or Ireland above u18 level.

If it turns out to be true I'll buy a Leicester Tigers jersey, get Dardis printed on the back and videotape myself eating eat.

Quint2010 · 06-02-2013 9:42pm

Hagz wrote: »

1. I've been around this forum long enough to know that any sort of rumour surrounding players who are still in school is fabricated 99% of the time.

2. The poster has amassed a total of 5 posts. That's not his fault, but it certainly affects how reliable a source he/she is.

3. Why on earth would a)Billy Dardis join Leicester Tigers when he's guaranteed an Academy place in Leinster b)Leicester Tigers have any interest in a player who hasn't even represented Leinster or Ireland above u18 level.

If it turns out to be true I'll buy a Leicester Tigers jersey, get Dardis printed on the back and videotape myself eating eat.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is some truth to this. There is the Newbridge connection with Murphy and Conor O'Shea came out a couple of months ago and said that Dardis has the potential to be the best full back Terenure has ever produced (over himself, Ciaran Clarke and Girvan Dempsey). Leinster can't bring everyone into the academy and they already have an excellent prospect in Cian Kelleher. Dardis has been talked about so much that surely he is being monitored outside of Leinster?

themont85 · 06-02-2013 9:56pm

Hagz wrote: »

1. I've been around this forum long enough to know that any sort of rumour surrounding players who are still in school is fabricated 99% of the time.

2. The poster has amassed a total of 5 posts. That's not his fault, but it certainly affects how reliable a source he/she is.

3. Why on earth would a)Billy Dardis join Leicester Tigers when he's guaranteed an Academy place in Leinster b)Leicester Tigers have any interest in a player who hasn't even represented Leinster or Ireland above u18 level.

If it turns out to be true I'll buy a Leicester Tigers jersey, get Dardis printed on the back and videotape myself eating eat.

Points 1 and 2 are fair enough.

Point 3 isn't. He is guaranteed a Leinster spot. Even if he is, maybe he wants to move abroad for college. There could be any number of reasons.

Why would Leicester have interest? They've signed Irish players before from out of school, it isn't unprecedented and if he is as quality as expected, then of course they would be.

irishbucsfan · 06-02-2013 10:02pm

Leicester have spoken with plenty of Irish school leavers in recent years. Wouldn't be surprised if Dardis was approached. Maybe he'll use it to get himself a better contract straight away like Fitzgerald did.

Tox56 · 06-02-2013 10:09pm

Last year the academy took in 4 players fresh out of school. Dardis is supposedly the best player in the cup in a position where Leinster could do with some talent coming through, I would be amazed if he didn't get an academy place straight away.

ssaye · 06-02-2013 10:14pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Last year the academy took in 4 players fresh out of school. Dardis is supposedly the best player in the cup in a position where Leinster could do with some talent coming through, I would be amazed if he didn't get an academy place straight away.

The Dardis story started here it seems, then a question on LF, nothing on tigers forums and around twitter of terenure etc,

#leinsterdetective

Foxtrol · 06-02-2013 10:24pm

themont85 wrote: »

Why would Leicester have interest? They've signed Irish players before from out of school, it isn't unprecedented and if he is as quality as expected, then of course they would be.

If you're talking about the two Murphys, they were both on the periphery of the Leinster set up so it's not really the same thing.

Actually have any foreign clubs ever beaten an Irish province to the signature of player out of school that was actually in demand by the provinces? I've heard of other provinces taking or attempting to take talent but never really the international element before.

English Lurker · 06-02-2013 10:35pm

Stephen MacAuley signed for Leicester straight out of Clongowes iirc. I don't know whether he was in provincial demand, but as he played for Ireland Schools U18, it seems likely he was.

opinionatedfan · 06-02-2013 10:38pm

English Lurker wrote: »

Stephen MacAuley signed for Leicester straight out of Clongowes iirc. I don't know whether he was in provincial demand, but as he played for Ireland Schools U18, it seems likely he was.

He was offered a sub academy spot with a chance to earn an academy contract at Leinster coming out of clongowes.

fox_1973 · 06-02-2013 10:44pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is some truth to this. There is the Newbridge connection with Murphy and Conor O'Shea came out a couple of months ago and said that Dardis has the potential to be the best full back Terenure has ever produced (over himself, Ciaran Clarke and Girvan Dempsey). Leinster can't bring everyone into the academy and they already have an excellent prospect in Cian Kelleher. Dardis has been talked about so much that surely he is being monitored outside of Leinster?

Not sure how relevant it is, but there were photographers in with dardis during the week during school hours taking profile type pictures, just him, and they weren't from Leinster or Ireland

Quint2010 · 06-02-2013 10:48pm

fox_1973 wrote: »

Not sure how relevant it is, but there were photographers in with dardis during the week during school hours taking profile type pictures, just him, and they weren't from Leinster or Ireland

So that's how a rumour starts...

themont85 · 06-02-2013 10:58pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you're talking about the two Murphys, they were both on the periphery of the Leinster set up so it's not really the same thing.

Actually have any foreign clubs ever beaten an Irish province to the signature of player out of school that was actually in demand by the provinces? I've heard of other provinces taking or attempting to take talent but never really the international element before.

Nope. One mentioned below and I know for a fact they regularly try it.

Mick Dawson actually had a few comments on it 2 years ago.

fox_1973 · 06-02-2013 11:04pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

So that's how a rumour starts...

I'm only commenting on fact I know, never thought anything of it until I read this thread tonight, it was not meant in any way to add to any rumours, for what it's worth, I hope he stays with Leinster

Quint2010 · 06-02-2013 11:10pm

fox_1973 wrote: »

I'm only commenting on fact I know, never thought anything of it until I read this thread tonight, it was not meant in any way to add to any rumours, for what it's worth, I hope he stays with Leinster

No wasn't implying you were starting a rumour-but rather that perhaps someone else had seen these photos taking place and had subsequently posted the comment from earlier.

[Jackass] · 07-02-2013 4:13pm

I wouldn't get overly excited about Harrison Brewer just yet. He is an absolute monster for his age grade, but these things tend to even out. A lot of his game is based around his power. That's not to say he can't still end up being the most amazing player in the history of rugby, but it's difficult to predict senior success from age grade success, Leinster fans should be acutely aware of this given the difficulty many Irish age grade stars have had stepping it up to senior level at the province.

I used to play with a guy who at Junior Cup level was by far the best wing in Leinster schools, he was a little tank and was the quickest player I'd ever seen. He used to score at least 1 try in every game and more often than not would score more. Our whole game plan at that level revolved around getting him on the ball and in space. By senior cup level he didn't even make the match day squad. Fast developers can be caught up with quickly.

I will say one thing about Brewer though, he's a mean looking fecker! How many schools players have you seen with a feckin Maori tattoo on their arm? I'd sh*t a brick if I was 17 again and playing against him!

opinionatedfan · 07-02-2013 4:29pm

Brewer is more than a bosh merchant though. His physical attributes are obviously the first thing people notice. I don't expect him to be the best player in schools rugby this year but I certainly think he has high potential to make it professionally either at 12 or 8.

The Academies

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