Electric bike - see mode note post #298

OP did you ever get sorted ?

Some seriously good quality bikes here http://www.greenaer.ie/

From what I saw on this link these bikes are not nearly as good, http://dutchbikeshop.ie/electric-bikes/ any bike with a small front hub is going to be utter Sh**e on long steep hills.

The Bosch and Panasonic chain drive bikes are about the best you will buy , hub motors unless using a lot of power are not great on hills due to their single fixed gearing, with chain drives you use the bikes gearing for much better efficiency.

I have a 2013 Bosch Haibike EQ Trekking, the battery is still very good, I don't notice any loss of range, but it's not a daily commuter so it's had a pretty easy life.

You're not going to break speed records on these because they'r limited to 28 Mph and steep hills will see less speed , these bikes are designed to take the sting out of hills and they do so incredibly well.

The Newer Bosch drives , some of them at least have more torque.

My bike pulled me up to the top of Mount Leinster and some of this has 25% slopes !

You might even get a 2012 Haibike with Bosch drive on ebay for about 1500 Euro's these bikes are expensive but well worth the investment if you love cycling.

Is there any markings on the motor to identify it ?

Hubs are fine once you give them enough power , the geared hubs are the best and they usually have a clutch to disengage the motor which makes it a lot easier to pedal unassisted compared to the cheaper direct drive motors which experience motor drag due to the magnets and feels like you're pulling something behind.

Geared hubs are more efficient and offer more torque than direct drive motors. Direct drive motors have one advantage in that they're as simple as you get, the only moving part is the wheel itself.

The problem with hubs in general is that they get much less efficient on steep hills as the rpm reduces they consume much more power than a chain drive system because the chain drive can use the gears and if it starts to bog down you simply select a lower gear and the motor can gain more rpm and run in it's efficient zone again.

Either way hubs provide good bang for buck, once they're fed enough power. I ran 5 Kw through a geared hub and the acceleration was amazing. It had a top speed of 64 Kph at 60 volts. An 8T wind motor. Climbed hills with amazing speed , however hubs can't dissipate heat well, especially geared hubs if ran well over their rated power. But they pack amazing punch when fed real power.

Yes Mid Drives are the way to go unfortunately the Bosch/Yamaha/Panasonic mid drives tend to be out of reach of a lot of people and that's why I said Hubs, only geared hubs provide good performance for the price, depending on the price of course and quality of components and the power.

I have puncture resistant tyres and haven't got a flat in years.

But yes, hubs can be a pain and the weight of a mid drive is batter balanced.

Mid drives are much more efficient for hills giving better battery range.

The likes of the Bosch e-bikes (like the one I have in the pic above) are expensive but if someone loves to get out on the bike but not a die hard cyclist they're absolutely well worth the investment. But a quality bike like the Haibikes etc are actually good to cycle unassisted, I can cycle mine for miles without motor power mainly on level ground then just turn on assistance as I need it and off again when I don't and this can add many miles to range, I do love to cycle, sadly I haven't got out this year much at all.

If someone has mainly level ground to cycle then I always recommend a light good quality road bike, the difference in a 300 Halfords bike to a 1000 Euro Trek for instance can be simply amazing.

lil_kev wrote: »

1. Can you use them like motorbikes or only as pedal assist?

You can use the non type approved ebikes with a throttle but beware the regulation police here on Boards will be around shortly to tell you how illegal it is.......They'll make sure they give you 10 pages of BS to make sure you're aware of the legalities of having a throttle or not.

Basically the jist of the legalities is this, throttle is not legal and power is limited to 250 watts, but it's not as simple as that because acceleration is also limited.

The likes of the Bosch Mid drive motors are 750 watts and get around this because 250 watts would not pull you out of bed and legislators are not technically mined , well, usually and fail to understand the logic behind lifting the 250 watt limit, it's 1000 watts in the U.S for instance.

Bosch over come this by limiting acceleration and applying power when you're in a lower gear peddling fast because the system will know that if you're peddling at xx cadence at xx Km'h then you must be going up a hill and will only then apply max power, very clever but it works brilliantly.

I have a 2013 Haibike EQ trekking, really great bike but I don't get time to ride it the last few years.

lil_kev wrote: »

2. Ebikes recommendation up to 2000 euro.

Check out any ebike using Bosch or panasonic motors, mid drive motors that drive the crank, forget about hub motors because unless running higher power they are not that good on hills.

There are other ebikes that use crank powered systems but I'm most familiar with Bosch and having used it it's one I would seriously recommend if you like cycling.

lil_kev wrote: »

3. Is there any alternative to charge ebikes without charging them direct to socket like with pedaling?

No, laws of physics, you'd never over come the resistance required to get a charge in the battery, basically the system would be running in reverse, acting like a generator and the resistance would be too great. You get nothing for nothing. Some hub motor bikes use the regen to slow the bike down saving the brakes but that's about it's only usefulness unless going down lots of mountains daily.

Here is a link to a site that you can get high quality ebike kits, the main Man that runs it is called Paul and he is from the U.K but living in China and he has contact with a lot of companies that make the motors he sells, he does not sell crap and makes a lot of his own battery packs and has great reputation over at endless-sphere which is a very good ebike forum.

Here's a link to his site , this link is a link to a couple of motors with different power ratings, I recommend the 750 watt motor kit, battery will cost more but they have so much these days compared to what I had to choose back in 2011 and batteries have improved a lot too.

https://em3ev.com/shop/?product_cat=middle-motor-kit

You can configure these kits to run without throttle that will only turn on when you pedal and the harder you pedal apply more power.

These kits are not illegal to buy or sell before anyone gets on their high horse here on boards especially the anti ebike crowd which are cycling snobs that hate any bike with a motor.

You can use these off road as you wish making them perfectly legal or configure to legal requirements, again, these kits in the link above are not illegal to buy and sell I guarantee it !

You'll need to be technically minded to put this stuff together or get someone who is.

You can always find 2nd hand bikes with Bosch system. You might pay 2 K for a 2nd hand one.

You can buy cheaper ebikes but if brand new and 2K or less beware.......there's a lot of junk out there.

ED E wrote: »

Cyclist vs Ped incidents aren't as common as Joe Duffy callers would like you to believe but they aren't non existent. What happens if some phone zombie steps off in front of you on your not so legal two wheels and lawyers get involved?

Risk vs reward, just pedal (ya fattie).

Then the Phone Zombie has to pay for repairs to the owner of the bike and me lol.

The exact can be said for someone knocked down by a cyclist cycling at 40+ Km/h , you could be prosecuted depending on the Guard/Super etc, unlikely.

You can also get sued for being knocked down by cyclist or 2 cyclist in collision.

I'm also not suggesting that a bicycle adapted to travel at 50 Kph should be using cycle lanes.

I do feel that cyclists in unsuitable bus lanes are far more likely to be involved in incidents than some ebike that might have a throttle and only capable of 20 Mph.

There are other factors in play such as acceleration, ( torque) this is one reason Bosch are able to run far more than so called legal power, torque is limited depending on speed v cadence, it applies max power on hills where you need it, 250 watts is incapable of doing this but the legislators are incapable of understanding this despite experts trying to explain it but as I said earlier, thy're a bunch of bureaucrats chauffeured around in diesel cars with no desire to be out cycling and with no desire to implement sensible laws that benefit us all.