Electric bike - see mode note post #298

Greenaer sell very high quality bikes. Most are very expensive but it's an investment, insurance is essential as well as a good quality lock for about 100 Euros and a secure place to keep it day/night and don't keep it out in the rain all year long.

You can , if you have enough technical skills convert your own bike for a tiny fraction of the cost with the link I provided, and they are not junk quality Chinese kits they are some of the good stuff that comes from China like your Iphone, and Galaxy phone.

https://em3ev.com/shop/?prod_cat_=e-bike-kit-motor

Beware of front hub motor ebikes even on high quality bikes, they are often tiny and can't take much power and can over heat on hills, they won't have much hill climbing power and I would avoid.

As I said, the crank drives are much better for the hills with lower powered bikes because they can use the bike gears for much greater efficiency. If a hub motor stalls then all the energy turns to heat, with a crank drive system you simply change to a lower gear and you got power again.

DIY hub motors from em3ev provide good power and torque from the MAC motors, the 8T motor is good for level terrain and some decent hills the 10 or 12T is better for climbing steep hills.

Chain drive such as the Bosch are great for climbing very steep hills at very good efficiencies and they're all good and legal.

As I said there's a reason Bosch and others print 250 watts on their motors , the important bit is the EN label , 250 watts wouldn't pull you out of bed.

The crank drive motor kits on em3ev make a very neat installation because the motor controller is integrated into the motor, the hub motor kits have external controllers which need to be mounted on the bike and you have to hide and water proof the connections as best you can, the controller also has to be mounted with plenty of air flow to keep cool.

Let us know what bike/kit you get.

If you don't want to put a kit together and want a hub motor kit then go for a bike with a rear motor that's internally geared for better torque and efficiency compared to a direct drive motor which is very hard to pedal with no power, it will feel like you're pulling something heavy behind you.

The Hub sounds good for you because you might not be bringing it to the hills much. Test them out, most decent kits today run more than 250 watts legal power because people won't buy the bikes with such low power so test before you buy, they'll most likely all have 250 watts printed on them.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf


FAQs on E-Bikes, Pedelecs or Battery Scooters

What is an electric bicycle? An electric bicycle, also known as an e-bike or booster bike, is a bicycle with an electric
motor. There are many types of e-bikes, from e-bikes that only have a small motor to assist the rider's pedal-power
(pedelecs) to more powerful e-bikes which don’t need to be pedalled at all (power on demand), unless the rider
wishes.

What is an electric / battery powered scooter? An electric scooter is a small platform with two or more wheels that
is propelled by an electric motor. Besides the motor, the rider can also propel the electric scooter forward by
pushing off the ground.

What is the law on e-bikes / pedelecs / battery powered scooters? Regardless of the type of bike, the rule is as
follows: If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV). Under Road Traffic Law, if an MPV is used in a
public place it is subject to all of the regulatory controls that apply to other vehicles. Therefore, it must be
roadworthy, registered, taxed and insured. The driver of the vehicle must hold the appropriate driving licence and is
obliged to wear a crash helmet.

What is the definition of ‘mechanically propelled vehicle’? The Road Traffic Act 1961 at Section 3(1) (a) and (b),
defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as: “a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means,
including:

(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is
being used,

(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not
including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails.”

What category vehicle is my Pedelec/motor assisted bike/scooter? L1e to L7e categories cover a wide range of 2, 3
and 4 wheeled vehicle types. If this query relates to registration please contact Revenue.

Do I need a licence to operate an e-bike/battery scooter? This depends on whether the vehicle is classified as an
MPV (see info above). If it is an MPV, please contact our Licensing Section on 1890 41 61 41 or (096)25000 to clarify
which licence category is required for the vehicle concerned.

How can I register my e-bike? For an e-bike / battery scooter to be registered it will need an EC Cert of Conformity
(COC) from the manufacturer. For more information in relation to registration please contact Revenue.

There is no COC available for my e-bike/scooter. What can I do to register it? If the manufacturer cannot supply a
COC, this means your e-bike/scooter can only be used on private property or purpose built tracks.

Do I need to get my e-bike/scooter tested? Currently, no. However under road traffic law it is the owner/driver’s
responsibility to ensure their vehicle is kept in a roadworthy condition at all times when used in a public place. All
parts and equipment must be in good working order. Failure to do so can result in prosecution.

Are engine/converter kits legal on push bikes/scooters? There is no law against them however please note that the
addition of the engine may result in your bike being treated as an MPV which means it’ll have to be registered,
taxed, insured etc. Please see info on MPVs above. In addition any conversion must be carried out to an appropriate
standard so as not to render the vehicle unroadworthy, unsafe or likely to cause an accident.

Is it legal for children to ride e-bikes or battery scooters on public roads? This depends on whether the bike/scooter
in question is an MPV or not (see info above). It is illegal for persons under the age of 16 to ride an MPV in a public
place. If the bike is not an MPV, there is no law against children riding it in a public place. The RSA strongly
recommends that young children should always be supervised if riding in a public place.

I don’t know if my e-bike is classed as an MPV or not? Please refer to the MPV criteria above, including the legal
definition. If you are still unsure please seek legal advice. The RSA does not assess vehicles on a case by case basis
to ascertain whether they are MPVs or not. It is the legal obligation of the vehicle owner to ensure that the vehicle
which he/ she owns, complies with all of the regulations applicable to the category of vehicle concerned.
This document is for general information only. It does not, and is not intended to, provide legal or technical advice or to represent a legal interpretation of the matters that it
addresses.

Joe1919 wrote: »

The above looks like a good supplier.
Have you bought anything from above? How long did delivery take/ was it costly.
Any extra complications getting batteries delivered?

Yes I've bought stuff from Paul before but he has a lot more now and he's improving things all the time, he assembles his own battery packs also. He has a very good reputation on Endless Sphere which is "the" ebike forum https://endless-sphere.com/forums/ There's a tonne of information there.

I've ordered a rear wheel MAC 8T hub motor kit from him some years back, it took about a week to arrive, shipping is a bit more expensive now as it costs a bit more to send lithium batteries.

Always use the recommended battery for the kit you get because you risk stressing it and killing it. The batteries are far better today but you still got to match it with the motor kit, I think the site recommends the battery for a particular power setup you require, for instance, a system that pulls 20 peak amps needs a battery capable of pulling 20 amps which is easy these days.

Any battery you get do not ever leave it charging unsupervised unless it's in a fire proof location with smoke detection, most ebike batteries are safe but you can never trust a battery, especially when your family and house is at risk. Do not even store it inside unless in a fire proof location with smoke detection.

I always charged my batteries on the cooker hob with extractor fan on and had smoke detector in the kitchen.

Whatever you get just remember that hub motors such as the MAC motors are great for level ground with some decent hills, the 8T gives a good balance between power and torque, 48 volts will give about 30 mph and will run at about 2 Kw, the 12T is good for very steep hills , I never had a 12T motor but it will produce much more torque at the expense of speed, with the same 48V, in order to increase speed you simply choose a higher voltage battery.

If going at 30 mph then you need body protection and a good helmet because the ground will tear the skin off you at that speed if you fall. Fat tyres are better and 8 inch disks front and rear are essential to stop you, you can get adaptors to convert normal disks. Also good hydraulic brakes are essential at 30 mph or roughly 50 Km/h.

With hub motors you have to get the balance between power and motor suitability where as with the crank drive setups you will still need decent power but you have the bikes gears should you find yourself getting bogged down.

Here is a link to a motor simulator, superb tool.

With a 40 amp controller and 52 volt battery a 12 T Mac kit will give you 145 Nm of torque and 38 Km/h top speed. With 72 Volts you'll get the same torque and 50 Km/h

The 8Tmac will give you 90 nm torque and 64 Km/h with 72 volts or 90 Nm torque and 50 Km/h.

So you can see the difference between the two, but to be honest it may not mean much to you all this torque but the speed will.

I would opt for a 10T and 52 volt battery and 40 amp controller will give you 43 Km/h or 26 mph max this is on level ground, the simulator will even allow you to select the hill grades in % and you can see the difference in speed V efficiency and it will even tell you if the motor will over heat after a certain time at full power. I think paul offers higher performing motors for higher power, or upgraded motors to take the power.

So again, hub motors good but more wiring to install and hide, chain drive can go up pretty much any hill and use the bikes gearing, easier to install and neater installation but harder on chain etc, more maintenance.

Give me an idea of the type of riding you'll be doing and the terrain ?

That's a lot of torque by the way for a bike but necessary for hills where you need it.

I'd recommend a pedelec type system if it can be attached to those controllers, I think it can.

Throttle is not legal if declared a bicycle but pedelec system is, according to the document above according to Irish law there is no mention to power limit only whether it has a throttle or not.

You'd also want to watch the acceleration, these controllers can be programmed with speed and power limits. And your battery has to be able to supply 40 + amps.

A lower power system can also be got with the same motor but not as much torque, use the simulator again, a 25 amp controller will give you 70 Nm torque and the same top speed for the same battery and motor. Less power means less expense because you require a less expensive battery.

If going for 40 amp controller you might want to ask for a current limiting device which pre charges the capacitors before applying full power which prevents spark when connecting the battery which can be hard on connectors, all this might be supplied these days.

Meanwhile, back in Ireland , cyclists hate double decker buses and taxis LOL !

What do you call an Irish cycle lane ? a Bus lane or hard shoulder halved with paint, lol

I'm saying that Irish cyclists have a far more dangerous situation cycling in Bus lanes and the fear of drivers turning left.

If I were to do it again I'd probably choose the 1000 Watt bafang BBSHD chain drive kit with 0 throttle and use it as a pedelec system, I think one fo the displays allows you to limit power and speed also and you can adjust levels of assistance.

With the hub motor kits you don't get a display for monitoring battery % or power in watts etc you have to get what's called a cycle analyst costing more.