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Electric bike - see mode note post #298

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Comments

  • #152
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Hard to know really I haven't looked into it enough, Id basically be looking for an explorer/trekking type of build, big range but still with the ability to pedal unimpeded but also the ability to treat it like an (assisted) moped for long distance journeys at speed aswell. Also Id probably build it as a CX bike or hybrid so a bit of off road/dirt trails would be an option.

    But basically as it stands now Im better off sticking with my roadbike as Id be a fat bastard without it, looking forward to seeing what comes though, Youtube recommends a lot of electric motorbike reviews to me and some of them are absolutely amazing, like practically a new generation every 6 months, same for ebikes nearly, 5 years from now there will be some damn tempting options to consider.


  • #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Need to know what you want first, speed has a massive impact on range, best stick to bicycle speeds and use the motor only for hills or you will need a much larger more expensive battery.

    The Bafang BBS02 or Bafang BBSHD would be the best bet I think, what I'm after. Decent Ebikes cost serious money this is why DIY kits are available.

    The Big ebike motor manufacturers like Bosch/Yamaha etc don't want to create DIY kits so people turn to the next best thing and sometimes better if you want more power that is, it has to be DIY.

    There's a new player in the Game , check out Haibike Flyon, not yet released, will offer 120 Nm of torque but at a massive cost, should be able to convert any bike with BBS02 , BBSHD for a tiny fraction of the cost so it's no wonder these ebikes kits are flooding the market and usually with much more power.

    If you are looking at speed, say 30 mph in a bicycle for 150 odd Kms you will be waiting many years for battery tech to get this good.


  • #154
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Need to know what you want first, speed has a massive impact on range, best stick to bicycle speeds and use the motor only for hills or you will need a much larger more expensive battery.

    The Bafang BBS02 or Bafang BBSHD would be the best bet I think, what I'm after. Decent Ebikes cost serious money this is why DIY kits are available.

    The Big ebike motor manufacturers like Bosch/Yamaha etc don't want to create DIY kits so people turn to the next best thing and sometimes better if you want more power that is, it has to be DIY.

    There's a new player in the Game , check out Haibike Flyon, not yet released, will offer 120 Nm of torque but at a massive cost, should be able to convert any bike with BBS02 , BBSHD for a tiny fraction of the cost so it's no wonder these ebikes kits are flooding the market and usually with much more power.

    If you are looking at speed, say 30 mph in a bicycle for 150 odd Kms you will be waiting many years for battery tech to get this good.
    Well 150km would be a bit much to ask but 80-100 not so much, as long as it didnt have that horrible drag you get on some motors Id be pedaling for most of that aswell.

    Yeah it will definitely be a DIY job, a great project to do. This will be years in the future though, Id rather spend a couple of grand on a proper carbon roadbike while Im young.


  • #155
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Well 150km would be a bit much to ask but 80-100 not so much, as long as it didnt have that horrible drag you get on some motors Id be pedaling for most of that aswell.

    Yeah it will definitely be a DIY job, a great project to do. This will be years in the future though, Id rather spend a couple of grand on a proper carbon roadbike while Im young.

    Carbon would be a waste for me lol, I'd be better off loosing a few Kg !

    You can convert carbon bikes , you'd be best to use mid drive.

    I'd say forget the carbon and go electric now and upgrade in a few years.

    My Bosch powered bike has some drag but I think that's more to do with the rear Sdram Dual drive 3 hub not sure, could be the motor wither depends on what's moving when you pedal. I think the new Bisch drives are much better but I have no experience.

    Hub motors , there are two types, internally geared which normally have a clutch that disengages all mechanical connection to the motor for complete free wheel ability.

    Then there are direct drive moors, the lowest maintenance simplest of all ebike conversions but these have big drag as the magnets themselves create resistance as the motor is still turning with no power but are suitable for those with no interest in peddling.

    I have no experience with the Bafang motors. But they get great reviews for power on hills.

    The motor in the pic above was internally geared with clutch so it peddles amazingly well with no power, that and the continental tyres pmped to about 80 PSI helped a lot for rolling efficiency.

    I also miss the ability to use all the bikes gearing with rear hub motor.

    I'm in two minds now whether to go back this route and use a slower higher torque version that would give me about 40 Km/h max is all I would be looking for these days, I've no desire to go at 60+ Km/h again.

    The Crank drive motors would be more efficient for the hills for sure but I could climb decent hills at 50 Km/h with the above setup and 52 volt battery however, the motor was not built for this but I had amazing fun on it.

    You still haven't said what speed you were hoping to achieve ? and on level ground and hills ?


  • #156
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,281 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Thargor wrote: »
    My ideal build would be basically a hybrid/trekking bike thats basically an electric motorbike, I dont care about the laws, 100-150km range, seamless transition between motorbike mode/pedal bike.
    mod note - folks - just spotted the last few posts. please knock the discussion about mopeds on the head, this is the cycling forum and while we're happy to discuss e-bikes, please leave the talk about systems which are legally not bicycles to a different forum.


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  • #157
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Thargor wrote: »
    Well 150km would be a bit much to ask but 80-100 not so much, as long as it didnt have that horrible drag you get on some motors Id be pedaling for most of that aswell.

    Yeah it will definitely be a DIY job, a great project to do. This will be years in the future though, Id rather spend a couple of grand on a proper carbon roadbike while Im young.

    I have a home conversion with a BBSHD and a 48v 17ah battery that I use to commute, I keep the power and speed turned down a good bit and have no problem getting 100 km out of a charge. I don't have a throttle on it and peddle quite a bit. Big hills would reduce the range a bit but a bigger battery could make up for this.

    See here.


  • #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I have a home conversion with a BBSHD and a 48v 17ah battery that I use to commute, I keep the power and speed turned down a good bit and have no problem getting 100 km out of a charge. I don't have a throttle on it and peddle quite a bit. Big hills would reduce the range a bit but a bigger battery could make up for this.

    See here.

    Lol , I forgot about you having this !

    How are you getting on with it, is the BBSHD not over kill for that bike ?

    I'd be thinking more along the lines of the BBS02, smaller and lighter and 120 Nm torque should be plenty.

    But this is my thinking , I will sell the Haibike with Bosch motor and put the money towards the BBS02.

    Think it comes default with the legal limit of 25 Km/h which is fine more important for me is hill climbing at without killing my knees.

    How do you find the pedal assist/torque sensing of the BBSHD ? have you ever driven a Bosch to compare the two ?

    And where did you buy the kit, I would go back to em3ev again as he has fantastic reputation and builds most of his own battery packs.


  • #159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And I will remind people that these are not illegal kits, these kits are perfectly legal to buy and sell.


  • #160
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lol , I forgot about you having this !

    How are you getting on with it, is the BBSHD not over kill for that bike ?

    I'd be thinking more along the lines of the BBS02, smaller and lighter and 120 Nm torque should be plenty.

    But this is my thinking , I will sell the Haibike with Bosch motor and put the money towards the BBS02.

    Think it comes default with the legal limit of 25 Km/h which is fine more important for me is hill climbing at without killing my knees.

    How do you find the pedal assist/torque sensing of the BBSHD ? have you ever driven a Bosch to compare the two ?

    And where did you buy the kit, I would go back to em3ev again as he has fantastic reputation and builds most of his own battery packs.

    First off I absolutely love it, I go everywhere I can on it,the only thing that keeps me off it is frost or really bad rain. I'd be afraid of falling off or frying the electronics. It has paid for itself several times over at this stage in petrol savings alone not to mention the exercise and health benefits.

    It's definitely overkill for the bike, the reason I chose it over the 02 was for reliability and it hasn't let me down yet and it's coming up on 10,000 km. The only maintenance I've done is to take off the main cover and grease the gears. Basic bike maintenance after that. I haven't noticed any deterioration in the battery

    I didn't fit the throttle appart from giving it a quick go when I put it together first. There is no torque sensing which is a drawback. The peddle assist works smoothly and can be adjusted with the gizmo I linked to.

    The only experience I have of other ebikes was renting a Haibike for a day in Newport Co Mayo to cycle the greenway, I enjoyed it but needed more gears, it had 3 speed hub gears which were just adequate, I don't know what the motor was.

    If I was to go again I would start with a cheap mountain bike with at least front suspension, I had this bike spare and it had disc brakes so seemed good but suspension would be a big improvement.

    I bought the kit from eggbikes in the UK and have no complaints, the reason I didn't go with em3ev was the shipping from China and customs charges etc although I will probably use him next time as his reputation is top notch.

    My next project will be a cargo bike with the same motor and maybe a 2 battery setup and I will get that together for the summer. I have a goo for a recumbent aswell but that needs more research.

    I just don't understand why much more people don't have them. I still use my road bike but being well into my 50's I dont have the range I once had but the motor more than makes up for it while still getting out and about on a bike and get good exercise with it.

    Good luck with your own build.


  • #161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the detailed post . 10,000 Kms is a lot of cycling lol. I simply don't have the time + working shift is a pain in the ass.

    I'm desperately seeking a way to take my two small boys out, the Cargo bikes for such a thing are 3-5K, that's mad. I travel lots on back roads so it has to be safe.

    On of the huge benefits to me with the hub motor was that I could use the existing bikes gearing, a pain in the ass if you need to change a tyre or tube but other than that they are pretty much maintenance free, I'm strongly considering this route again.

    The BBSHD might be a tad heavy for my liking,

    The Haibike I have has a rear 3 speed gear hub called Sram Dual Drive 3. It works pretty well but there's a kind of a drag I get with the haibike that is noticeable , I did not experience this with the mac motor.

    Is there any drag with the BBSHD ?

    How do you find it without the front 2 chain rings ?

    I've heard the BBS02 wasn't as reliable but I think a lot of people were driving them harder than it was intended to be operated.


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  • #162
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,431 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And I will remind people that these are not illegal kits, these kits are perfectly legal to buy and sell.

    MOD VOICE: and as you well know, the buying and selling is not the illegality being referred too. Going forward, since we are in the main cycling section, talk will only be about road legal bikes. Even buying and selling them will be deleted and carded as it might be construed as endorsement. If you want to talk about off road e bikes, there is a MTB subforum where there is a discussion already going on. If you don't like these rules, either PM me for further discussion or simply stop posting on the subject. There will be no further warnings in thread to anyone.


  • #163
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Why do you feel a suspension is needed...


  • #164
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    beauf wrote: »
    Why do you feel a suspension is needed...

    Because he feels the potholes a lot more at 50kph.


  • #165
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    beauf wrote: »
    Why do you feel a suspension is needed...

    I assume that question is for me.

    The reason I would prefer suspension is for personal comfort. I often spend a couple of hours on the bike and with the motor and battery it's heaver than it should be, a bit like myself. I have a bad shoulder from a cycling injury years ago, a fractured clavicle and seperated ac joint that required a couple of surgeries and has never been right since.

    Just for clarity it's restricted to 250w and 25kph.


  • #166
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thanks for the detailed post . 10,000 Kms is a lot of cycling lol. I simply don't have the time + working shift is a pain in the ass.

    I'm desperately seeking a way to take my two small boys out, the Cargo bikes for such a thing are 3-5K, that's mad. I travel lots on back roads so it has to be safe.

    On of the huge benefits to me with the hub motor was that I could use the existing bikes gearing, a pain in the ass if you need to change a tyre or tube but other than that they are pretty much maintenance free, I'm strongly considering this route again.

    The BBSHD might be a tad heavy for my liking,

    The Haibike I have has a rear 3 speed gear hub called Sram Dual Drive 3. It works pretty well but there's a kind of a drag I get with the haibike that is noticeable , I did not experience this with the mac motor.

    Is there any drag with the BBSHD ?

    How do you find it without the front 2 chain rings ?

    I've heard the BBS02 wasn't as reliable but I think a lot of people were driving them harder than it was intended to be operated.

    There is very little drag but it's very heavy. I would be horrified if it broke down too far from home, Mrs Nut would be getting a pleas come rescue me call I think.


  • #167
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I assume that question is for me.

    The reason I would prefer suspension is for personal comfort. I ...

    I see lots of e Bikes with suspension and I was wondering is it needed. For commuting only.


  • #168
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    beauf wrote: »
    I see lots of e Bikes with suspension and I was wondering is it needed. For commuting only.

    That wouldn't be exclusive to ebikes I think.


  • #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ED E wrote: »
    Because he feels the potholes a lot more at 50kph.

    So would anyone going downhill lol.


  • #170
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RustyNut wrote: »
    That wouldn't be exclusive to ebikes I think.

    Let me rephrase the question. You don't see many eBikes without suspension.


  • #171
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Suspension can be inefficient as your energy goes into springs than pedals however the more expensive suspension bikes are better at eliminating this and some let you lock out the suspension for maximum pedal efficiency.

    My local roads as most Irish back roads are terrible for cycling and sometimes a suspension bike would be welcome.

    Every time I go to Germany I've to be constantly reminded that I do not have to keep cycling on the right because I keep thinking I'm on a road, the cycle lanes are smoother than a lot of our motorways and are as wide as a lot of our back roads so I find it hard to believe there is no car going to shoot around the bend at 80 km/h........


    German cycle lanes are just amazing and it's worth travelling to Germany for the cycle lanes alone , currently there is no way I can carry my two Boys aged 3 and 4 and a half safely on my local back roads , the speed of some cars is just ridiculous yet there are speed vans on motorways and 100 Km/h zones with straight wide lanes, I could go to Germany and have the lads in a trailer in the back with absolutely no worries what-so-ever, on my local back roads, not a chance in hell would I dream of having them behind me low down and it's really sad because I desperately want to be on the bike a lot more than I bloody can having to take the car everywhere !

    That was a bit of a rant lol !


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  • #172
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    beauf wrote: »
    Let me rephrase the question. You don't see many eBikes without suspension.

    My guess would be that the energy loss would be less important on an ebike and the target market are looking for a levil of comfort as well as the assistance.


  • #173
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are we talking front suspension only or full suspension which really is only seen on Mountain bikes ?


  • #174
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Front suspension. I just noticed that eBikes seem to be getting heavier and heavier.


  • #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Front suspension. I just noticed that eBikes seem to be getting heavier and heavier.

    No, not really. My first ebike conversion before the likes of the Bosch and Yamaha ebikes were released had a battery that weighed 20 Kg lol.

    If anything they're getting lighter.


  • #176
    snowstreams
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    Does anyone know how much would a reasonable commuter electric bike be?

    I was hoping to not have to pay much more than the bike to work scheme. But it seems like a lot of bikes are over 2k +

    Im looking to get something that would allow me to commute to work easily without sweating etc
    But then Id like to cycle home unpowered to get the exercise.

    I've a 22 mile round trip though, so I will still need a battery capable of doing maybe 15 miles.


  • #177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    snowstreams wrote: »
    Does anyone know how much would a reasonable commuter electric bike be?

    I was hoping to not have to pay much more than the bike to work scheme. But it seems like a lot of bikes are over 2k +

    Im looking to get something that would allow me to commute to work easily without sweating etc
    But then Id like to cycle home unpowered to get the exercise.

    I've a 22 mile round trip though, so I will still need a battery capable of doing maybe 15 miles.

    Sadly, there is not much in the price bracket of the bike to work scheme not much I would recommend because at that price range you will get a bike of very cheap quality unless you buy 2nd hand.

    Usually the bikes with the likes of Bosch or Yamaha motors are very good to excellent quality bikes. I certainly would not recommend buying an ebike that did not have one of these motors and don't buy a bike with a hub motor because at 1K price range you will buy some horrid stuff.

    22 miles is a long commute, is that round trip or each way ? 22 round trip wouldn't be so bad.

    You can also buy a kit such as the Bafang BBS02 or BBSHD and convert any bike.

    Sadly the cost of these bikes is still very high even though they're a good few years on the market they price is not coming down.

    However you don't have to pay motor tax or insurance and the cost of good health can't be calculated lol. I'd give anything to be cycling distance to work.

    If you do get a good bike get insurance and a very good expensive lock.


  • #178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How does the bike to work scheme work anyway , how much do you get towards the bike ?

    I do not understand why there is a cap of 1K for the bike ? surely they give you whatever and you can put that towards the bike ?


  • #179
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Its an income tax rebate so essentially 50% off.

    The concept is it is for commuting though they dont check or really care what you do with it. But nobody uses a €10,000 SWorks for commuting so why would the government offer half of that back to you. Thus the cap as €1K is reasonable for a commuter rig and optional extras, lock.


    If snowstreams is handy buying a €1000 commuter for ~500 after B2W and spending another €500 on a good adaption kit it would probably come to a reasonably decent job. Not as clean as a nice Reise Mueller but very functional. IMO you'd want to be familiar with working on bikes.


  • #180
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,281 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ED E wrote: »
    Its an income tax rebate so essentially 50% off.
    only if you're paying on the upper tax rate, though. it's a regressive tax incentive.


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  • #181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The thing is that if they give 50% off off 1000 why not just give people the 500 Euro's to put towards what they want ? I don't get the cap of 1000 while I agree it will buy a decent bike it will not buy a decent electric bike for instance, not even close so to give incentive for people to get out of cars and buy electric bikes this cap should be eliminated.


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