Biological males in women's sport

koumi wrote: »

I like that I once had the ability to be that strong, for all the men wiling to feign some false sense of righteousness about us fragile women, I loved my sports and used be fairly fit. The idea of competing with mtf on the pitch initially was a bit new to me and maybe it did make me want to drive harder and maybe I did feel like she was a threat before I knew her but I can happily attest that it wasn't an issue, at least in terms of ability and yeah maybe that tackle was the point which I got over myself

As someone who has been on both sides, I can safely say that the whole fragile woman thing is bull, and may be a way for some people to try and assert dominance where they do not deserve it. Men and women may have strength in different ways, but women are in no way fragile.

There is always an element of caution involved in the unknown, like playing football against a team with someone who is MtF, but as you have learned, they aren't a threat to be feared. They are just another person enjoying sport, the same as you. Okay, they might be a bit bigger, but some people are.

These people, myself included, just want to go about their lives and be treated as the woman/man they are, including enjoying their sport, be it football, or cycling, or whatever. For the normal person playing a game of football, yeah it's a competition, and you want to go out there and win, but it is not the be all and end all if you win and lose, as long as you are enjoying it and seeing the benefits. Sport really should be for all.

The OP though is referring to elite sport - the top level where mere fractions separates the gold medals and massive paydays from the also rans. I can understand a degree of concern, and there needing to be rules in place to stop any otherwise mediocre athlete from deciding that they don't want to be an also ran, declare as female, and decimate the field, just for the sake of winning. The rules are based on an inexact scientific basis, mainly due to the lack of data. As more data becomes available, the rules can and may be changed, but the rules need to be fair to all, not to create a perfectly level playing field, as that removes the skill and training from something, but level enough that anyone who is willing to put the time and effort in to perfecting their skill, trans or cis, has a chance of winning.

sports should be segregated by sex, not by gender. If they have a Y chromosome then they have to compete in the male category, otherwise, it's female.

Will some people be offended? Probably, but are some people offended when they have to compete in a lower grade to what they think they should be competing in, or in a higher weight class...?

I have absolutely no problem with someone who was born transgender and is transitioning to his/her identified gender if they are genuine and are accommodating to others to allow us to identify them in the correct way, but there a very small but very vocal group of people who are self obsessed attention seekers who claim to identify as a different gender but still choose to dress and act and look like their born sex, and yet insist that others call them a different gender to what they outwardly display, they can feck off.

If you do have a 'gender fluid' situation going on, then you shouldn't care what gender people call you, because sometimes they'll be right, and sometimes they'll be wrong. Just get over it or seek some kind of help to assist you in coming to terms with the fact that anyone who constantly changes who they are on a fundamental basis is never going to fit in outside of a very close group of friends who know your situation intimately. How can you expect people to like you for 'who you are' when you change who you are every other day and get mad at others for not noticing.

Wow. Just Wow. *applauds*

For someone who respects women (your words), you have no problem with telling biological women they have to be a nobody in the mens category, because of a genetic abnormality (something which they can absolutely not be held responsible for). That's progressive right there.

If, in some twisted dystopian future, you somehow rise to power, I'm leaving the planet, by any means.

robyntmorton wrote: »

Wow. Just Wow. *applauds*

For someone who respects women (your words), you have no problem with telling biological women they have to be a nobody in the mens category, because of a genetic abnormality (something which they can absolutely not be held responsible for). That's progressive right there.

If, in some twisted dystopian future, you somehow rise to power, I'm leaving the planet, by any means.

Sh1t happens. Elite sport can be a cruel game but there needs to be a clear demarkation between the categories. Is it unfair that a dwarf can't play basketball at a high level, or someone who was born blind can't be a formula 1 driver?

It takes genetic freaks to excel at many sports, people who have got a good genetic fit to their sport can win while others struggle to perform.

And then there are all the other unfair advantages that some get over others, some people happen to be born with access to a velodrome and the resources to train in that sport. Others get given a hurley and sent out to train in the rain even if they have no natural ability in field sports.

Elite sports are about high performance within strict clear parameters. Classes are defined by weight, or by sex, or by a position on a team sport that requires unique physical attributes. The road to the olympics is paved with hard working athletes that were just not tall enough or supple enough, or too injury prone to make it to the top of the podium

ceadaoin. wrote: »

What operation? There is no requirement to have surgery, just to lower their testosterone levels through hormone treatment. Some people argue that even that shouldn't be necessary and is a violation of their human rights.

Yes, crazy as it seems that is the law in Ireland and there is a vociferous group of trans activists lobbying for children to be allowed access to hormone treatment that will cause irreversible damage to their endocrine systems. Already they are lobbying for "legal recognition for children under 16 as well as the 16-18 yr olds and it looks like they will be getting their way too.

I don't care what adults do to their bodies, its their business and I fully support recognition of change of gender (but not of a Self identified basis as its far too open to abuse) but we are sleepwalking into this without considering the large number of gay men and women who experience gender confusion as children that is resolved later in their 20's. Parents are being advised to "support" their kids in having hormone treatment during puberty to "block" biological sex characteristics.
As if wanting your kid to develop in their birth sex before they decide to change it utterly is somehow transphobic. Let your kids dress whatever way they want and love them anyway but don't let a tiny, very vocal minority obsessed with pushing their agenda dictate serious irreversible meds for minors are a normal and acceptable choice for parents to make and if they don't do it they are transphobic.
The power this lobby group have is scary-they are involved with the HSE in delivering training to GPs FFS. All of this would be fine if they focused on medical transition for adults only but they don't. It appears to be a case of the more the merrier.
Bear in mind most of the people in paid lobbying work in this area are middle aged and older and haven't experienced the effects hormonal therapy has on adolescent bodies themselves.
Anyone who isn't 100% supportive of all their aims is labelled "transphobic" or some other insulting term. We will look back at this in amazement in years to come and shake our heads at the stupidity of allowing children access to life altering hormones and worse still, encouraging parents to do so.

Are there any examples of elite female athletes choosing to compete in male categories? Would a transgender female demand to compete in the male sports division even if it meant he would never be competitive or would he hide his gender identity and continue to compete as a female?

currants wrote: »

Yes, crazy as it seems that is the law in Ireland and there is a vociferous group of trans activists lobbying for children to be allowed access to hormone treatment that will cause irreversible damage to their endocrine systems. Already they are lobbying for "legal recognition for children under 16 as well as the 16-18 yr olds and it looks like they will be getting their way too.

I don't care what adults do to their bodies, its their business and I fully support recognition of change of gender (but not of a Self identified basis as its far too open to abuse) but we are sleepwalking into this without considering the large number of gay men and women who experience gender confusion as children that is resolved later in their 20's. Parents are being advised to "support" their kids in having hormone treatment during puberty to "block" biological sex characteristics.
As if wanting your kid to develop in their birth sex before they decide to change it utterly is somehow transphobic. Let your kids dress whatever way they want and love them anyway but don't let a tiny, very vocal minority obsessed with pushing their agenda dictate serious irreversible meds for minors are a normal and acceptable choice for parents to make and if they don't do it they are transphobic.
The power this lobby group have is scary-they are involved with the HSE in delivering training to GPs FFS. All of this would be fine if they focused on medical transition for adults only but they don't. It appears to be a case of the more the merrier.
Bear in mind most of the people in paid lobbying work in this area are middle aged and older and haven't experienced the effects hormonal therapy has on adolescent bodies themselves.
Anyone who isn't 100% supportive of all their aims is labelled "transphobic" or some other insulting term. We will look back at this in amazement in years to come and shake our heads at the stupidity of allowing children access to life altering hormones and worse still, encouraging parents to do so.

The other thing that is ignored is that for the vast majority of these kids, it is literally just a phase, in the same way that some teenagers go down the whole "fùck you dad I'm listening to Nirvana and I hate the world!" phase . A phase that will get you in serious shìte in the wrong estate, but a phase regardless.

I saw the same with my cousin. No bullshìt, highly intelligent kid who gets bored with school and has knackers in his class. He fights back, and the teachers try and stick an aspergers sticker on him. That lad is fine.

There's this massive push to medicate everything and its pretty fùcked up like.