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Biological males in women's sport

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    #1952
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Danzy wrote: »
    Saw an Aussie rules trans woman, possible career ending impacts where a normal tackle as far as he was concerned and they were when he was playing on a men's team.

    Is that Hannah Mouncey you are talking about?

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=UDFWhiaH&id=2C1BC418A98790CAAAC8D61061182D348E2ADDFD&thid=OIP.UDFWhiaH2j9Zj9KvxYH_AAHaFj&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.sportsnews.com.au%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f09%2f20180910_104012.jpg&exph=600&expw=800&q=hannah+mouncey&simid=607998246137760061&ck=ECB24CE57B5622340C952938A7838D89&selectedIndex=3&adlt=strict&ajaxhist=0

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=s7kyxmE4&id=CDA7AD36677E8A47F256305F79B39016CFDF7CB7&thid=OIP.s7kyxmE4oP0skVrLI3G1UAHaE7&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.playersvoice.com.au%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2017%2f11%2fMOUNCEY_PV1_04_a.jpg&exph=853&expw=1280&q=hannah+mouncey&simid=608002541106367829&ck=6FF134C9251E9568B1E5A929571AA5F3&selectedIndex=21&adlt=strict&ajaxhist=0


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    #1953
    SoupMonster
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭SoupMonster


    Hannah is stunning and brave, a shining example to all Australian women everywhere.


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    #1954
    ingalway
    Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭ingalway


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I looks like rugby has some sense and might be banning transgender men from playing against women . I've nothing against trans people but the line has to be drawn when it comes to sport.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/19/transwomen-face-potential-womens-rugby-ban-over-safety-concerns?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
    How about changing rooms, showers, toilets, female hospital wards, female prisons, rape shelters?


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    #1955
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Is that Hannah Mouncey you are talking about?

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=UDFWhiaH&id=2C1BC418A98790CAAAC8D61061182D348E2ADDFD&thid=OIP.UDFWhiaH2j9Zj9KvxYH_AAHaFj&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.sportsnews.com.au%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f09%2f20180910_104012.jpg&exph=600&expw=800&q=hannah+mouncey&simid=607998246137760061&ck=ECB24CE57B5622340C952938A7838D89&selectedIndex=3&adlt=strict&ajaxhist=0

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=s7kyxmE4&id=CDA7AD36677E8A47F256305F79B39016CFDF7CB7&thid=OIP.s7kyxmE4oP0skVrLI3G1UAHaE7&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.playersvoice.com.au%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2017%2f11%2fMOUNCEY_PV1_04_a.jpg&exph=853&expw=1280&q=hannah+mouncey&simid=608002541106367829&ck=6FF134C9251E9568B1E5A929571AA5F3&selectedIndex=21&adlt=strict&ajaxhist=0

    well that's clearly a man


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    #1956
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    well that's clearly a man

    Sadly not according to the rules in Australia. And here too for that matter.

    Time for new rules methinks.


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    #1957
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    well that's clearly a man
    Nope, that's hate speech i'm afraid. That person is as much a woman as your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend.


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    #1958
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    well that's clearly a man


    Not according to some people , that comment could be classed as a hate crime ,imagine him/her playing womens rugby , he'd run amok .


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    #1959
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Nope, that's hate speech i'm afraid. That person is as much a woman as your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend.

    Not really , can he/she have kids ?? I've no problem though if he wants to be a woman , I just think they shouldn't be allowed to compete against real women


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    #1960
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Not according to some people , that comment could be classed as a hate crime ,imagine him/her playing womens rugby , he'd run amok .

    They already did play AFL against women and broke a players leg badly. After they were banned from that they moved onto womens handball, a sport they had already competed in as a man to the level of being on the men's national team, so definitely no advantage there either. Mouncey sure seems intent on dominating womens sports, any kind possible


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    #1961
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Nope, that's hate speech i'm afraid. That person is as much a woman as your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend.

    Your mother, sister, wife or girlfried has a penis? :eek::eek::eek:


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    #1962
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Nope, that's hate speech i'm afraid. That person is as much a woman as your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend.

    I'm guilty of hate speech so because Mouncey is not a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.

    By the way, hate speech is a bit much. I don't hate Mouncey. I just don't think Mouncey is a woman.

    I do hate the fact that it's grossly unfair that Mouncey gets to compete and totally dominate womens sport in Oz.


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    #1963
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,004 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm guilty of hate speech so because Mouncey is not a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.

    By the way, hate speech is a bit much. I don't hate Mouncey. I just don't think Mouncey is a woman.

    I do hate the fact that it's grossly unfair that Mouncey gets to compete and totally dominate womens sport in Oz.

    Well sorry you are still guilty of hate speech.

    That's the way the world is going, places like Canada are planning to/have already made it a hate crime to call a transgender person by the incorrect pronoun.

    So no matter how hard you argue you are in the wrong according to some, saying this sports person is not a woman is hate speech.


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    #1964
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Your mother, sister, wife or girlfried has a penis? :eek::eek::eek:
    not as far as i know but some women do indeed have penises. Some sire children and menstruate using said penises.


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    #1965
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,520 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Then you'd have no women professional athletes .

    Exactly the point as that would speed up the process of people understanding how stupid it is to let people born men compete against women ,


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    #1966
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,520 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Nope, that's hate speech i'm afraid. That person is as much a woman as your mother, sister, wife or girlfriend.

    That's simply not true,
    She can think she is a women ,ask people to call her a women and that is fair enough but my mother, sister and wife have two X chromosomes , while she has one x and one Y chromosome, So your statement is incorrect ,


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    #1967
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    That's simply not true,
    She can think she is a women ,ask people to call her a women and that is fair enough but my mother, sister and wife have two X chromosomes , while she has one x and one Y chromosome, So your statement is incorrect ,

    chromosomes are irrelevant in determining gender. the only relevant basis for determining if someone is a woman is "does the person say they are a woman?" If the answer is "yes", then that person is a woman. End of discussion. You will comply.


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    #1968
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    That's simply not true,
    She can think she is a women ,ask people to call her a women and that is fair enough but my mother, sister and wife have two X chromosomes , while she has one x and one Y chromosome, So your statement is incorrect ,

    You must be new to these trans threads. Biological reality is to be ignored in favour of repeating incorrect mantras such as 'trans-women are women', refusing to give definitions, calling everyone who disagrees with you a 'terf'/'anti-trans'/'transphobe', talking nonsense about 'tables of examplars' and refusing to answer tough questions by either completely ignoring them even when asked on numerous occasions, or just altogether disappearing before reappearing again ten pages later to call some a 'terf'/'anti-trans'/'transphobe' or reprehend someone for some perceived slight. Rinse and repeat for literally 100's of pages.

    And btw, Suicide Circus is being facetious.


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    #1969
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,520 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    chromosomes are irrelevant in determining gender. the only relevant basis for determining if someone is a woman is "does the person say they are a woman?" If the answer is "yes", then that person is a woman. End of discussion. You will comply.

    The person can "identify" as a women and that is fine its there choice and as a nice person I will oblige there request,


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    #1970
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    The person can "identify" as a women and that is fine its there choice and as a nice person I will oblige there request,
    Your compliance is noted. Your multipass will be updated with 5 social credits.


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    #1971
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Your compliance is noted. Your multipass will be updated with 5 social credits.

    And when Mouncey puts your daughter in a wheelchair when playing sports, at least you will know that you were compliant with modern 'group think'.


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    #1972
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    not as far as i know but some women do indeed have penises. Some sire children and menstruate using said penises.

    I guess you learn something new everyday, I must have missed that in school


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    #1973
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I guess you learn something new everyday, I must have missed that in school
    it wasnt taught in schools when we were kids due to ignorance and prejudice. It is taught in schools now however.


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    #1974
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    The ethics of allowing biological males to compete against natural-born women in non-contact sports such as tennis or running are already highly dubious, given the insurmountable physical advantage that one has over the other.

    Allowing biological males to compete in women's contact sports is frankly insane, given the risks of injury this poses to natural-born women. Are people so wedded to their ideology that they can no longer understand the laws of physics?


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    #1975
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Since the term man and women is now contentious and subjective. The solution is to split the sports on chromosomes which would still keep it fair. XX and XY.

    Obviously they originally split sports into men and women to make it fairer and the term "mens" and "womens" was enough to separate and make it fair. But in 2020 it's not. You can legally be a women and have an advantage over other women. So what would take out the advantage would be seperation by chromosomes. Then competitors dont have to worry about the term man and women and what they identify as etc. If you factually have XY then you compete with others who have XY and XX then compete with XX


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    #1976
    ingalway
    Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭ingalway


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    Since the term man and women is now contentious and subjective. The solution is to split the sports on chromosomes which would still keep it fair. XX and XY.

    Obviously they originally split sports into men and women to make it fairer and the term "mens" and "womens" was enough to separate and make it fair. But in 2020 it's not. You can legally be a women and have an advantage over other women. So what would take out the advantage would be seperation by chromosomes. Then competitors dont have to worry about the term man and women and what they identify as etc. If you factually have XY then you compete with others who have XY and XX then compete with XX
    Ah, but even that is not OK with the trans rights activists. Chromosomes are biology and biology has moved on apparently. This argument has been made many times on Twitter but shut down as being transphobic. You might be XY but you also might have a lady brain apparently - that kind of science is the good kind - and if you have a lady brain, even with a lady penis, then you are categorically a lady no matter what chromosomes and your own eyes tell you.


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    #1977
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it wasnt taught in schools when we were kids due to ignorance and prejudice. It is taught in schools now however.

    Will you stop , the world wasn't as ridiculous back then as it is now , that's why it wasn't taught in schools, they're not real women thought no matter how you want to sugar coat it. So I can live 30 years as a man , wake up one morning and decide that I want to be a woman , that's not science thats ideology.


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    #1978
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    kildare lad wrote: »
    So I can live 30 years as a man , wake up one morning and decide that I want to be a woman , that's not science thats ideology.
    It's the law of the land. The link between science and reality has been broken.


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    #1979
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Mod: @Oranage2 - don't post in the thread again.


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    #1980
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    ingalway wrote: »
    Ah, but even that is not OK with the trans rights activists. Chromosomes are biology and biology has moved on apparently. This argument has been made many times on Twitter but shut down as being transphobic. You might be XY but you also might have a lady brain apparently - that kind of science is the good kind - and if you have a lady brain, even with a lady penis, then you are categorically a lady no matter what chromosomes and your own eyes tell you.

    This does not make sense. Either sport is not segregated on any basis which most would see as unfair. People with XX cannot compete against XY. Or we decide that it is fair to separate people with XY against people with XX.


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    #1981
    Rothko
    Registered Users Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    How people not realise that suicide_circus is being sarcastic? :confused:


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