Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Ulster Bank League 2018-2019 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

13567…34

Comments

  • #62
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Funding? There will be little or no funding from IRFU for proposed new format would be schocked if they made any additional funding of any significance available
    Same, I'd be really shocked if it was anything of note in cash, my guess is it will be some kind of support they over inflate the cost of and claim it's 'worth' half a mill per year to the club game.


  • #63
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    That just ignores the reorganisation and IRFU funding that also comes with the change.
    From what I hear Leinster haven't even been consulted with in relation to the provincial help that is being promised for clubs


  • #64
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    From what I hear Leinster haven't even been consulted with in relation to the provincial help that is being promised for clubs

    Depends whether you're talking about coaches or alicadoos


  • #65
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    From what I hear Leinster haven't even been consulted with in relation to the provincial help that is being promised for clubs

    Depends whether you're talking about coaches or alicadoos
    I'm talking about Leinster mgmt, exec and coaching team


  • #66
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    I'm talking about Leinster mgmt, exec and coaching team

    Well then that's not entirely true, because I've spoken with someone about it myself from the setup. A lot of that side of things is coming from feedback of professional/semi-professional coaches in Ireland who are concerned at the current standard and the inability of the elite professional game to do much to help. It's a cultural thing at that level.

    But its extremely early stages. I'd doubt there's been much planning. I'd say there are many furious and pointless arguments to be had before any decisions get 'finalised'.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well then that's not entirely true, because I've spoken with someone about it myself from the setup. A lot of that side of things is coming from feedback of professional/semi-professional coaches in Ireland who are concerned at the current standard and the inability of the elite professional game to do much to help. It's a cultural thing at that level.

    But its extremely early stages. I'd doubt there's been much planning. I'd say there are many furious and pointless arguments to be had before any decisions get 'finalised'.

    The professional set up want an A league for their players not neccessarily with the clubs. Thay 100% have not been consulted about releasing players to clubs and taking the choice from the player nor have they been asked by or requested by IRFU to explain how they would resource and supply support to clubs and who will if anyone compensate them for doing it. You have to remember the system is not broken in Leinster especially so why shopuld they change the way they operate? Seems to be working they should be copied not told to adapt to a different system.

    Again all they want is more game time for A team players but they would prefer an anglo English, Welsh, Scottish & interpro set up as they value the travelling and away trips as part of the prep their players need


  • #68
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    The professional set up want an A league for their players not neccessarily with the clubs. Thay 100% have not been consulted about releasing players to clubs and taking the choice from the player nor have they been asked by or requested by IRFU to explain how they would resource and supply support to clubs and who will if anyone compensate them for doing it. You have to remember the system is not broken in Leinster especially so why shopuld they change the way they operate? Seems to be working they should be copied not told to adapt to a different system.

    Again all they want is more game time for A team players but they would prefer an anglo English, Welsh, Scottish & interpro set up as they value the travelling and away trips as part of the prep their players need

    They will have an A league. In September/October.

    No one has been consulted yet officially. That won't happen until it's announced and the first round of pointless arguments are had.

    And the system is not broken for many clubs across the country. But it is broken for some, even some 1a clubs. The answer, as far as the IRFU is concerned, is a system that works for all clubs, consistently, and closes the gap.


  • #69
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    The professional set up want an A league for their players not neccessarily with the clubs. Thay 100% have not been consulted about releasing players to clubs and taking the choice from the player nor have they been asked by or requested by IRFU to explain how they would resource and supply support to clubs and who will if anyone compensate them for doing it. You have to remember the system is not broken in Leinster especially so why shopuld they change the way they operate? Seems to be working they should be copied not told to adapt to a different system.

    Again all they want is more game time for A team players but they would prefer an anglo English, Welsh, Scottish & interpro set up as they value the travelling and away trips as part of the prep their players need

    They will have an A league.  In September/October.

    No one has been consulted yet officially.  That won't happen until it's announced and the first round of pointless arguments are had.

    And the system is not broken for many clubs across the country.  But it is broken for some, even some 1a clubs.  The answer, as far as the IRFU is concerned, is a system that works for all clubs, consistently, and closes the gap.
    Which 1A clubs are broken?


  • #70
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Which 1A clubs are broken?

    I don't really want to say because it'll just cause arguments!


  • #71
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Well they must be real basket cases if they're competing in 1A!


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    RockBoysarewii
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭RockBoysarewii


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't really want to say because it'll just cause arguments!

    Sorry what do you mean by broken?
    Like they’re bankrupt?


  • #73
    Mc Love
    Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    One Limerick club are in money trouble that I know of.


  • #74
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    RockBoysarewii wrote: »
    Sorry what do you mean by broken?
    Like they’re bankrupt?

    No I don't mean the clubs are broken, the system as a whole is leaving some behind, in terms of structure/culture/coaching. I've no idea what finances are like across the board.


  • #75
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    In essence the Connacht & Ulster clubs have been using the system the union want to bring in and it hasn’t worked. Buccs, Galwegians have or have had more provincial players playin* AIL and in their match day squad than any other ail teams similar to the top 2 ulster teams. Leinster and Munster do not release the players a# much a# these provinces which makes you conclude that when you dilute a club with non Club players you don’t get the buy in that fosters a good squad. Leinster and Munster have never demanded players play for certain clubs it has always been the players choice not so much so in Connacht or Ulster. I know which system I would prefer and the results would back up,that preference
    Buccs have had pro players involved but Galwegians and Corinthians have only had academy players due to being in division 2. I disagree that you dont have a buy in from contracted players as if you saw Ultan Dillane play Division 2 with Corinthians you would see that. Munster(and i would think Leinster have as well) very much have demanded/requested players play for certain clubs and it in no way has always been players choice.


  • #76
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Galwegians were a 1a club that had a lot of Connacht players playin* with them and it did not work out same as Buccs but worse. Leinster have told players to go elsewhere when there were to many good players in their position
    You don’t re organise the whole league due to,a small number of clubs bein* run poorly you help those clubs not change the whole league.
    Ulsan Dillane May be the exception rather than the norm but how many games di€ he play for corinthians? Plus he had moved province so was trying to intergrate only two senior clubs in Galway that he could go to Galwegians had to many pro players so choice was obvious


  • #77
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Galwegians were a 1a club that had a lot of Connacht players playin* with them and it did not work out same as Buccs but worse. Leinster have told players to go elsewhere when there were to many good players in their position
    You don’t re organise the whole league due to,a small number of clubs bein* run poorly you help those clubs not change the whole league.
    Ulsan Dillane May be the exception rather than the norm but how many games di€ he play for corinthians? Plus he had moved province so was trying to intergrate only two senior clubs in Galway that he could go to Galwegians had to many pro players so choice was obvious
    Did Galwegians have lots of contracted players playing?
    Theyd have had some but then again Connacht only have ever had at max 2 clubs available for division 1 and therefore use of contracted players.
    This isnt reorganising the league because clubs are being poorly run. You must know a lot about these clubs as its extremely ignorant to call them poorly run from the outside like you are.


  • #78
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Did Galwegians have lots of contracted players playing?
    Theyd have had some but then again Connacht only have ever had at max 2 clubs available for division 1 and therefore use of contracted players.
    This isnt reorganising the league because clubs are being poorly run. You must know a lot about these clubs as its extremely ignorant to call them poorly run from the outside like you are.

    Yes Galwegians most definitely did when in 1a
    I was refering to earlier poster who said some clubs wer3 a shambles and in trouble
    S Back to defending IRFU again I see
    What do you think should happen?


  • #79
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Yes Galwegians most definitely did when in 1a
    I was refering to earlier poster who said some clubs wer3 a shambles and in trouble
    S Back to defending IRFU again I see
    What do you think should happen?
    Me defend IRFU? I have sometimes. It isnt a default nor my main opinion. Just me offering a contrast to whole view here from some that IRFU are useless as they are in plenty of areas and i just simply believe theyre not as bloody useless as some want to make them out to be!!!
    Galwegians would use plenty of contracted players when in 1A but that will be natural when one of the few clubs in a province that senior contracted players are able to play for.


  • #80
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Corinthians advertising for a new head coach/director of rugby
    https://community.connachtrugby.ie/galway-corinthians-seek-director-rugby-head-coach/


  • #81
    Limerick 37.5
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Limerick 37.5


    Have to say the IRFU are doing the right thing. There are too many clubs, each with its own agenda, therefore no progressive thinking, standards have dropped, the AIL has become diluted, these proposals should have been introduced 15 years ago, makes no sense for a Bruff to travel to Omagh and a Bangor travelling to Midleton. All these clubs need to play in provincial leagues with the possibility of promotion.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Limerick 37.5 wrote: »
    Have to say the IRFU are doing the right thing. There are too many clubs, each with its own agenda, therefore no progressive thinking, standards have dropped, the AIL has become diluted, these proposals should have been introduced 15 years ago, makes no sense for a Bruff to travel to Omagh and a Bangor travelling to Midleton. All these clubs need to play in provincial leagues with the possibility of promotion.

    There are diiferent scenarios to consider. I agree with the geographical re allignment from 2a down but 1a & 1b clubs have different agendas as you say but the 1a & 1b system isn't broken and needs no re-adjustment. Academy players are becoming less and less relevant to the club game and that is the fault of the academies and players to a lesser extent they treat them to preciously. To much S&C not enough games. The new proposaal says they will release players back to clubs in November after A league is complete and provincal players will be free from then on in. Not a chance Autumn internationals will mean small squads in provinces and players will be needed to make up numbers and for pro 14. Younger academy lads will then be gone from January until end of March with Irish 20s. Clubs will be expected to pick players who don't train with them and show up for about 30% of their games? What happens in 2/3 years when a new version of the B&I cup comes out with welsh & scottish clubs or premiership academy sides? AIL will be left high and dry. Short term solution by IRFU to short term problem that will mess up AIL clubs completeley. The arrogance of them to think clubs will sign an agreement with IRFU to tell them whom they have to select and what coaches they should have is unbeleivable. The provinces have not even been consulted on how this would work. trying to fix things when nothing is broken in Ail Divisions 1a & 1b is typical of the way the IRFU is being run at the moment.


  • #83
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Limerick 37.5 wrote: »
    Have to say the IRFU are doing the right thing. There are too many clubs, each with its own agenda, therefore no progressive thinking, standards have dropped, the AIL has become diluted, these proposals should have been introduced 15 years ago, makes no sense for a Bruff to travel to Omagh and a Bangor travelling to Midleton. All these clubs need to play in provincial leagues with the possibility of promotion.
    If there is too many clubs how many should be dropped? These proposals shouldnt have been introduced 15 years ago. The celtic league was 2/3 years old then. The league was completely different then...
    At what stage should we have regionalised leagues and move up to national leagues? These clubs dont necessarily want provincial leagues so.....
    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    There are diiferent scenarios to consider. I agree with the geographical re allignment from 2a down but 1a & 1b clubs have different agendas as you say but the 1a & 1b system isn't broken and needs no re-adjustment. Academy players are becoming less and less relevant to the club game and that is the fault of the academies and players to a lesser extent they treat them to preciously. To much S&C not enough games. The new proposaal says they will release players back to clubs in November after A league is complete and provincal players will be free from then on in. Not a chance Autumn internationals will mean small squads in provinces and players will be needed to make up numbers and for pro 14. Younger academy lads will then be gone from January until end of March with Irish 20s. Clubs will be expected to pick players who don't train with them and show up for about 30% of their games? What happens in 2/3 years when a new version of the B&I cup comes out with welsh & scottish clubs or premiership academy sides? AIL will be left high and dry. Short term solution by IRFU to short term problem that will mess up AIL clubs completeley. The arrogance of them to think clubs will sign an agreement with IRFU to tell them whom they have to select and what coaches they should have is unbeleivable. The provinces have not even been consulted on how this would work. trying to fix things when nothing is broken in Ail Divisions 1a & 1b is typical of the way the IRFU is being run at the moment.
    Im not sure having just the top 20 as full national leagues is right and regionalising the other 30 current senior clubs but think 2A should also be a full national league at least. 30 clubs out of 200 or so is right amount for full national league
    Of the academy players how many really dont play enough in the season? Between provincial/national age grade, provincial a teams, AIL level.


  • #84
    Malmedicine
    Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭Malmedicine


    What about entering the academies into the league? Give the provinces full control over their contract/development contracted/ academy contracted/ sub academy contracted players. Make Div 1a and Div 1b 12 teams each. Split Div 2 into 2 regionlised leagues with a playoff and a relegation mini league at the end.

    Relegate 4 from this Div 2 league (2 from North , 2 from South) and Only promote 2 from junior ranks for 2-3 years and then settle on 4 leagues of 12 teams. With a regionalised Div 2.


  • #85
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    If there is too many clubs how many should be dropped? These proposals shouldnt have been introduced 15 years ago. The celtic league was 2/3 years old then. The league was completely different then...
    At what stage should we have regionalised leagues and move up to national leagues? These clubs dont necessarily want provincial leagues so.....

    Im not sure having just the top 20 as full national leagues is right and regionalising the other 30 current senior clubs but think 2A should also be a full national league at least. 30 clubs out of 200 or so is right amount for full national league
    Of the academy players how many really dont play enough in the season? Between provincial/national age grade, provincial a teams, AIL level.

    in leinster you have sporadic access to academy players they can be 25th man or there can be an injury to a player in their position ahead of them and they won't risk those players They have S&C periods through out the year where they are not allowed playduring AIl matches, they have rest periods after playing 3 games in a row, S&C coaches rule the roost and it has gone away from playing being most important to S&C and the experience of travelling away as having better value. Playing for the province and developing them for the province is the priorty. Clubs are irrelevant to them they dont' care


  • #86
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Malmedicine wrote: »
    What about entering the academies into the league? Give the provinces full control over their contract/development contracted/ academy contracted/ sub academy contracted players. Make Div 1a and Div 1b 12 teams each. Split Div 2 into 2 regionlised leagues with a playoff and a relegation mini league at the end.

    Relegate 4 from this Div 2 league (2 from North , 2 from South) and Only promote 2 from junior ranks for 2-3 years and then settle on 4 leagues of 12 teams. With a regionalised Div 2.
    No. Where do academy sides play? What happens if province calls up a few academy players to play Pro14 or when the under 20s have a training camp/international and a province loses many of their academy players to that?
    12 teams per division and you still want home and away games is 22 games before playoffs?
    There is 30 clubs in division 2. Is going back to 15 team divisions really going to be better than what is there right now. And 15 teams then mini league after? How many games.
    We only promote one club with a playoff for another spot a season. Why would a lot of junior clubs bother for a few seasons with no chance of promotion to senior?


  • #87
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    In order for the provinces to compete in the AIL they'd need to increase their intake of players, as well as increasing sub-academy numbers. Which takes away from clubs. It's not feasible in reality. The best thing to do is encourage more integration with clubs other than UCD.


  • #88
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    In order for the provinces to compete in the AIL they'd need to increase their intake of players, as well as increasing sub-academy numbers. Which takes away from clubs. It's not feasible in reality. The best thing to do is encourage more integration with clubs other than UCD.
    Totally. Its not going to happen. Academy size would need to be bigger and they'd be using sub academy players as well. So whats the point?
    For Leinster....and there should be more academy players with other clubs and not just Lansdowne.
    Issue with other provinces is different. Connacht have only 1 division 1 club and while some academy players play division 2 there is others who have stayed with Dublin/Limerick clubs.


  • #89
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    In order for the provinces to compete in the AIL they'd need to increase their intake of players, as well as increasing sub-academy numbers. Which takes away from clubs. It's not feasible in reality. The best thing to do is encourage more integration with clubs other than UCD.
    Totally. Its not going to happen. Academy size would need to be bigger and they'd be using sub academy players as well. So whats the point?
    For Leinster....and there should be more academy players with other clubs and not just Lansdowne.
    Issue with other provinces is different. Connacht have only 1 division 1 club and while some academy players play division 2 there is others who have stayed with Dublin/Limerick clubs.
    Leinster academy players clubs as per last season
    UCD 9
    St Marys 4
    Lansdowne 4
    Clontarf 3
    Terenure 1 
    Trinity 1


  • #90
    Limerick 37.5
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Limerick 37.5


    I think a maximum 16 team league is more than enough, all other clubs should play within their province, promotion, relegation to apply. Increase the standard in AIL 1&2, provide more meaningful rugby for the academy players. Each club has their own take on how the leagues should be structured, not what is best for Irish rugby but for their own little patch. As a result you end up with inertia. The irfu have identified this and are now planning on how to bridge the gap between AIL & European rugby. Many clubs will not be happy but that should not stop progress. BTW the AIL 1&2 provides excellent quality rugby I totally agree.


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Limerick 37.5 wrote: »
    I think a maximum 16 team league is more than enough, all other clubs should play within their province, promotion, relegation to apply. Increase the standard in AIL 1&2, provide more meaningful rugby for the academy players. Each club has their own take on how the leagues should be structured, not what is best for Irish rugby but for their own little patch. As a result you end up with inertia. The irfu have identified this and are now planning on how to bridge the gap between AIL & European rugby. Many clubs will not be happy but that should not stop progress. BTW the AIL 1&2 provides excellent quality rugby I totally agree.
    Clubs are much better off with 10 team divisions playing 18 games than 16 team divisions playing 15 games. Also the 10 team divisions gives more clubs more to play for for more of the season. Way more dead rubbers and meaningless games in 16 team divisions.


Advertisement