Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-11-2018 5:50pm

end of the road wrote: »

well given he wasn't engaging in cultural activities but an actual crime, it's not surprising they haven't called for the sentence to be suspended. but i suspect you know that.

what do you think would happen if they did go on air after serious incidents and "explain" them away, not that such incidents can be explained away, as you know. would it be quite likely that they would be accused of condoning and justifying crime, dispite only doing what some people wanted them to do, go on air and explain the incidents away?

No sorry you’re wrong

end of the road · 24-11-2018 6:03pm

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote: »

No sorry you’re wrong

about what, and in what way?

sightband · 24-11-2018 6:30pm

end of the road wrote: »

well given he wasn't engaging in cultural activities but an actual crime, it's not surprising they haven't called for the sentence to be suspended. but i suspect you know that.

what do you think would happen if they did go on air after serious incidents and "explain" them away, not that such incidents can be explained away, as you know. would it be quite likely that they would be accused of condoning and justifying crime, dispite only doing what some people wanted them to do, go on air and explain the incidents away?

Maybe the point is that they should just STFU entirely until they clean up their act. They are the first on the airwaves to cry victim about one of their own but there’s this deafening silence on their many thousands of victims that they terrorise annually.

tayto lover · 24-11-2018 6:50pm

sightband wrote: »

Maybe the point is that they should just STFU entirely until they clean up their act. They are the first on the airwaves to cry victim about one of their own but there’s this deafening silence on their many thousands of victims that they terrorise annually.

They never come on the air and condemn travellers for criminality.
That's what annoys me.
Maybe if they did the travellers might listen and commit less crimes believable or not as the case might be.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 6:50pm

sightband wrote: »

Maybe the point is that they should just STFU entirely until they clean up their act. They are the first on the airwaves to cry victim about one of their own but there’s this deafening silence on their many thousands of victims that they terrorise annually.

i'm not seeing the problem here. they will come on air and talk about issues effecting the traveling community. that is their remit. they follow that remit. there is absolutely no need for them to be going on air everytime a traveler commits a crime because it's not expected of us to all go on radio stations condemning or talking about crimes commited by fellow members of the settled community.
a crime commited by a traveler is no different to any other crime. a crime is a crime, the origin or status of the person commiting the crime makes no difference in terms of the crime and it's impact. a criminal is a criminal regardless of background.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 6:55pm

tayto lover wrote: »

They never come on the air and condemn travellers for criminality.
That's what annoys me.
Maybe if they did the travellers might listen and commit less crimes believable or not as the case might be.

realistically, given that plenty of settled people will go on radio, social or any other media condemning crime on a daily basis, yet it doesn't seem to be having any effects on crime levels, how likely is it that those in the traveler community who do commit crime, will either stop doing it or reduce it, because pavee point went on the radio?

sightband · 24-11-2018 6:59pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not seeing the problem here. they will come on air and talk about issues effecting the traveling community. that is their remit. they follow that remit. there is absolutely no need for them to be going on air everytime a traveler commits a crime because it's not expected of us to all go on radio stations condemning or talking about crimes commited by fellow members of the settled community.
a crime commited by a traveler is no different to any other crime. a crime is a crime, the origin or status of the person commiting the crime makes no difference in terms of the crime and it's impact. a criminal is a criminal regardless of background.

I understand what you are saying, obviously they won’t come on air after a traveller commits yet another crime but they are so vocal about their rights without any accountability for their behaviour. Even a token “there are issues within the travelling community which need to be addressed by ourselves”...but there’s zero. It’s “we are victims and everyone treats us badly” end of...Ive yet to hear a single traveller or spokesperson for them say as much. They make an awful lot of people suffer for such a small community.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 24-11-2018 7:05pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not seeing the problem here. they will come on air and talk about issues effecting the traveling community. that is their remit. they follow that remit. there is absolutely no need for them to be going on air everytime a traveler commits a crime because it's not expected of us to all go on radio stations condemning or talking about crimes commited by fellow members of the settled community.

They have sections on their website complaining that Travellers are stereotyped as criminals. But they are silent about the large number of crimes actually committed by Travellers. They persistently refuse to acknowledge that Travellers have this reputation not because of "stereotyping" by the settled community, but because Travellers actually do carry out a hugely disproportionate share of the criminal behavior in Ireland. Travellers are 0.6 percent of the Irish population, but comprise 10 percent of the male prison population and 22 percent of the female prison population.

tayto lover · 24-11-2018 7:12pm

end of the road wrote: »

realistically, given that plenty of settled people will go on radio, social or any other media condemning crime on a daily basis, yet it doesn't seem to be having any effects on crime levels, how likely is it that those in the traveler community who do commit crime, will either stop doing it or reduce it, because pavee point went on the radio?

Settled people don't claim ethnicity in their own country nor do they come on the radio claiming they're being picked on and suffering racism.

Signore Fancy Pants · 24-11-2018 7:19pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not seeing the problem here. they will come on air and talk about issues effecting the traveling community. that is their remit. they follow that remit. there is absolutely no need for them to be going on air everytime a traveler commits a crime because it's not expected of us to all go on radio stations condemning or talking about crimes commited by fellow members of the settled community.
a crime commited by a traveler is no different to any other crime. a crime is a crime, the origin or status of the person commiting the crime makes no difference in terms of the crime and it's impact. a criminal is a criminal regardless of background.

They represent the traveller community and are very vocal about injustice from settled people.

They campaign for rights, status, fairness, equality and more.

Would you not agree that it would go a long way to bridge the gap between both communities if they stood up and openly condemned illegal actions/activities (whatever they may be) which their community conducts against the State or settled people.

Neyite · 24-11-2018 7:37pm

tayto lover wrote: »

They never come on the air and condemn travellers for criminality.
That's what annoys me.
Maybe if they did the travellers might listen and commit less crimes believable or not as the case might be.

Ah they do. They condemn [insert specific incident] but go to great pains to imply that [this particular criminal act] is some sort of anomaly. Then they say several times that the vast majority of travellers aren't like that. Then it's into victim mode as they claim that they are the actual victims of [criminal act] because they are all tarred with the same brush because of a tiny minority of criminals in their midst. Then they'll usually throw out some statistics that both absolve them of any responsibility and simultaneously blame settled people for whatever it is they were asked about.

But I highly doubt Pavee Point have any influence in their community to reduce criminality.

Paddy Cow · 24-11-2018 7:44pm

Neyite wrote: »

Ah they do. They condemn [insert specific incident] but go to great pains to imply that [this particular criminal act] is some sort of anomaly. Then they say several times that the vast majority of travellers aren't like that. Then it's into victim mode as they claim that they are the actual victims of [criminal act] because they are all tarred with the same brush because of a tiny minority of criminals in their midst. Then they'll usually throw out some statistics that both absolve them of any responsibility and simultaneously blame settled people for whatever it is they were asked about.

But I highly doubt Pavee Point have any influence in their community to reduce criminality.

It's like last year where there was that awful shooting where the baby got blasted with shotgun pellets and Pavee Point were asking for calm and someone actually had the audacity to try and deflect blame onto the council :mad:

Meanwhile, a member of Blanchardstown Travellers’ Support Group claimed the local authority had a role to play in the shooting incident in Mulhuddart.

Catherine Joyce told RTɒs Morning Ireland the local authority knew the family involved was in crisis and if one of the families involved had been moved off the site, this incident might not have occurred.

Link to article

Had the council stepped in and insisted that one of the families had to be rehoused and the incident never occurred, they would've been accused of all sorts. They can't win.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 7:49pm

sightband wrote: »

I understand what you are saying, obviously they won’t come on air after a traveller commits yet another crime but they are so vocal about their rights without any accountability for their behaviour. Even a token “there are issues within the travelling community which need to be addressed by ourselves”...but there’s zero. It’s “we are victims and everyone treats us badly” end of...Ive yet to hear a single traveller or spokesperson for them say as much. They make an awful lot of people suffer for such a small community.

the problem is, that some people unfortunately do treat all travelers badly, whereas they wouldn't do it to another minority group. pavee point are in a difficult position by where they need to hi-light the genuine issues that do effect the traveling community, but not give idiots the excuse they need to target and discriminate against the community. i have heard pavee point on the radio before except there are issues with some elements of the traveler community, however what people are expecting of them just isn't possible to deliver currently.

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

They have sections on their website complaining that Travellers are stereotyped as criminals. But they are silent about the large number of crimes actually committed by Travellers. They persistently refuse to acknowledge that Travellers have this reputation not because of "stereotyping" by the settled community, but because Travellers actually do carry out a hugely disproportionate share of the criminal behavior in Ireland. Travellers are 0.6 percent of the Irish population, but comprise 10 percent of the male prison population and 22 percent of the female prison population.

i disagree they are silent about criminality in the traveler community. i have heard them on radio in the past being excepting of the fact there are criminals in the traveling community. what i think people are wanting is for them to come out every single time a traveler does something wrong and i'm sorry, it's just not on them to do that.
the fact is, there is quite a lot of stereotyping of travelers. the reputation that the criminal element of the traveling community have is really their reputation alone, however some people put that on to travelers not engaged in criminality, and i'm sorry, but that's the fault of those people for doing that, something they wouldn't do to other minority groups because they know they wouldn't get away with it.
from what i can see with pavee point, until people grow up and stop lumping all travelers in with those doing wrong, something they wouldn't do to their own people or other minority groups, pavee point aren't going to be able to discuss the rates of criminality within the community. if people want us to be able to discuss issues such as higher issues of criminality within communities v other communities in the mainstream, then in my view they need to change their attitudes.

tayto lover wrote: »

Settled people don't claim ethnicity in their own country nor do they come on the radio claiming they're being picked on and suffering racism.

with respect that isn't relevant, nor does it answer the question i asked you to be fair. what i was getting at, is why you believe that pavee point going on the radio would make any difference to crime levels in the traveling community, when it doesn't seem to work in the settled community.
the reality is, we are not expected to all go on radio or other media to condemn every single crime fellow members of our community do. travelers and muslims on the other hand are expected to do so, or march on the streets. effectively, other communities are expected to do more then we are, yet people complain about them being treated differently and supposibly not being treated equally because those groups get some supports that are genuinely needed to help toards integration, yet when treated equally, people complain.
unfortunately, it is the case travelers are being picked on by some, and are so because they are travelers. the people doing that are responsible for that, nobody else. travelers have a right to hi-light the plight they face at the hands of some.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 7:56pm

Chewbacca wrote: »

They represent the traveller community and are very vocal about injustice from settled people.

They campaign for rights, status, fairness, equality and more.

Would you not agree that it would go a long way to bridge the gap between both communities if they stood up and openly condemned illegal actions/activities (whatever they may be) which their community conducts against the State or settled people.

i personally think no currently. i think it actually may make things worse. while some people in the settled community focus their issues on all travelers rather then focusing on the people actually causing the issue, unfortunately this is likely to remain to be the case. when attitudes change, then perhapse pavee point will be able to do this, and it could help bridge the gap.

tretorn · 24-11-2018 8:44pm

end of the road wrote: »

i personally think no currently. i think it actually may make things worse. while some people in the settled community focus their issues on all travelers rather then focusing on the people actually causing the issue, unfortunately this is likely to remain to be the case. when attitudes change, then perhapse pavee point will be able to do this, and it could help bridge the gap.

How much more of this endless nonsense do we have to put up with.

Who in this thread is focussing attention on all travellers. People are talking about individual travellers and their antii social behaviour and the thread running through each sad story is the ineffectiveness of the authorities to deal with these crimes.

Three cowardly thugs attack a referee and maim him and they arent named and nor have they to the best of my knowledge been charged with this assault. Who decided they were to be banned from all football games and who is going to make sure this ban is observed, can you imagine theses thugs turning up at the gate with their slash hooks. I suppose travellers will now whine that they feel unwelcome at sportsgrounds, well who would want to be part of any club that travellers were members of.

end of the road · 24-11-2018 8:53pm

tretorn wrote: »

How much more of this endless nonsense do we have to put up with.

Who in this thread is focussing attention on all travellers. People are talking about individual travellers and their antii social behaviour and the thread running through each sad story is the ineffectiveness of the authorities to deal with these crimes.

Three cowardly thugs attack a referee and maim him and they arent named and nor have they to the best of my knowledge been charged with this assault. Who decided they were to be banned from all football games and who is going to make sure this ban is observed, can you imagine theses thugs turning up at the gate with their slash hooks. I suppose travellers will now whine that they feel unwelcome at sportsgrounds, well who would want to be part of any club that travellers were members of.

i said in general there are some people who mistreat all travelers on the basis of the criminal element. i didn't mention the thread, or anyone within it.

i would suspect many are, and are happy to be, involved in a club where there is travelers. the fact they are traveler would likely be completely irrelevant to those people, as it should be.

Signore Fancy Pants · 24-11-2018 8:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

i personally think no currently. i think it actually may make things worse. while some people in the settled community focus their issues on all travelers rather then focusing on the people actually causing the issue, unfortunately this is likely to remain to be the case. when attitudes change, then perhapse pavee point will be able to do this, and it could help bridge the gap.

You think that if Pavee Point condemn the illegal activity conducted by the community they represent it would "make things worse"?

Pavee Point make demands from the Goverment and from the Irish people. They campaign and receive council and State assistance, I have no problem with this.

They are also not shy about pointing out allegations of discrimination or other various issues which are directed at travellers, yet we are not allowed speak ill of their actions.

They campaign for fairness while elements of their community show none towards non travellers. Its not "fair" that they regularly target, exploit, terrorise and assault elderly people.

They campaign for equality while elements of their community regularly flaunt the laws of the land as if they don't apply to them. If you demand respect from the State and non travellers, you should show it back.

How can Pavee Point expect to be taken seriously (as an NGO) if they do not acknowledge issues within their community and make a concerted effort to address them. It completely undermines their position.

Its up to Pavee Point and travellers themselves to bridge the gap, God knows the State has done their part.

In regard to non travellers doing their bit, speaking for myself. I would applaud Pavee Point if they condemned illegal activity in their community. This would get me behind them and would gain my support. If travellers stopped robbing people that I know, that would also help.

My negative attitude towards travellers does not come from racism or bigotry or any other "ism". They come from interactions with the Traveller community themselves, obviously its just the bad ones I have met.

Ultimately, if Pavee Point or travellers themelves wont make the effort, why should we?

Why should the State provide services and assistance to travellers who break the law?

end of the road · 24-11-2018 9:06pm

Chewbacca wrote: »

You think that if Pavee Point condemn the illegal activity conducted by the community they represent it would "make things worse"?

Pavee Point make demands from the Goverment and from the Irish people. They campaign and receive council and State assistance, I have no problem with this.

They are also not shy about pointing out allegations of discrimination or other various issues which are directed at travellers, yet we are not allowed speak ill of their actions.

They campaign for fairness while elements of their community show none towards non travellers. Its not "fair" that they regularly target, exploit, terrorise and assault elderly people.

They campaign for equality while elements of their community regularly flaunt the laws of the land as if they don't apply to them. If you demand respect from the State and non travellers, you should show it back.

How can Pavee Point expect to be taken seriously (as an NGO) if they do not acknowledge issues within their community and make a concerted effort to address them. It completely undermines their position.

Its up to Pavee Point and travellers themselves to bridge the gap, God knows the State has done their part.

In regard to non travellers doing their bit, speaking for myself. I would applaud Pavee Point if they condemned illegal activity in their community. This would get me behind them and would gain my support. If travellers stopped robbing people that I know, that would also help.

My negative attitude towards travellers does not come from racism or bigotry or any other "ism". They come from interactions with the Traveller community themselves, obviously its just the bad ones I have met.

Ultimately, if Pavee Point or travellers themelves wont make the effort, why should we?

Why should the State provide services and assistance to travellers who break the law?

the fact we are currently speaking ill of the actions of some travelers, shows that we are in fact allowed to speak ill of actions commited by travelers.
the job of pavee point is to campaign against discrimination against, and fairness for the traveling community, something they seem to do quite well. it's not fair that anyone commits crime, but unfortunately they do, and as it stands there is little will to do what needs to be done to deal more effectively with the problem of criminality. the gardai are underfunded and the sentencing is low for a lot of crimes.
pavee point can only do so much, and the unfortunate reality is, that those who do discriminate against travelers, are the likely reason why pavee point feel unable to address criminality among an element of the community.
if pavee point or travelers don't make the effort, it is still your job to make the effort, because ultimately we want the issues to be solved. if we don't make the effort, it is a lot more likely the issues won't be resolved, because we are in the majority.
the state must provide services to those who break the law, where such services are required, because they have an obligation to do so, as such services will allow them to seak fair justice, and once finished their punishment, may provide necessary supports to those people, which may move them away from law breaking. if someone breaks the law, then it is on the state to punish them for doing so.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-11-2018 9:07pm

end of the road wrote: »

the fact we are currently speaking ill of the actions of some travelers, shows that we are in fact allowed to speak ill of actions commited by travelers.
the job of pavee point is to campaign against discrimination against, and fairness for the traveling community, something they seem to do quite well. it's not fair that anyone commits crime, but unfortunately they do, and as it stands there is little will to do what needs to be done to deal more effectively with the problem of criminality. the gardai are underfunded and the sentencing is low for a lot of crimes.
pavee point can only do so much, and the unfortunate reality is, that those who do discriminate against travelers, are the likely reason why pavee point feel unable to address criminality among an element of the community.
if pavee point or travelers don't make the effort, it is still your job to make the effort, because ultimately we want the issues to be solved. if we don't make the effort, it is a lot more likely the issues won't be resolved, because we are in the majority.
the state must provide services to those who break the law, where such services are required, because they have an obligation to do so, as such services will allow them to seak fair justice, and once finished their punishment, may provide necessary supports to those people, which may move them away from law breaking. if someone breaks the law, then it is on the state to punish them for doing so.

Ah make it stop someone for the love of god.

Royal Legend · 24-11-2018 9:11pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not seeing the problem here. they will come on air and talk about issues effecting the traveling community. that is their remit. they follow that remit. there is absolutely no need for them to be going on air everytime a traveler commits a crime because it's not expected of us to all go on radio stations condemning or talking about crimes commited by fellow members of the settled community.
a crime commited by a traveler is no different to any other crime. a crime is a crime, the origin or status of the person commiting the crime makes no difference in terms of the crime and it's impact. a criminal is a criminal regardless of background.

Because if they did they would need they own 24/7 news radio station :mad:

jay0109 · 24-11-2018 9:20pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

Because if they did they would need they own 24/7 news radio station :mad:

Well they would have been busy the past couple of weeks...the feud that's taken over Drogheda, the Mulhuddart court case outcome, the referee getting beat up by players/fans of Mullingar FC, the Garda plan for Rathkeale for the xmas swarm.

What else have I missed?

Royal Legend · 24-11-2018 9:21pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Well they would have been busy the past couple of weeks...the feud that's taken over Drogheda, the Mulhuddart court case outcome, the referee getting beat up by players/fans of Mullingar FC, the Garda plan for Rathkeale for the xmas swarm.

What else have I missed?

Accident prone Mac from Limerick

deaddonkey15 · 24-11-2018 9:28pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Well they would have been busy the past couple of weeks...the feud that's taken over Drogheda, the Mulhuddart court case outcome, the referee getting beat up by players/fans of Mullingar FC, the Garda plan for Rathkeale for the xmas swarm.

What else have I missed?

The brawl at the kickboxing event down in Shannon.

dan1895 · 24-11-2018 9:37pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Well they would have been busy the past couple of weeks...the feud that's taken over Drogheda, the Mulhuddart court case outcome, the referee getting beat up by players/fans of Mullingar FC, the Garda plan for Rathkeale for the xmas swarm.

What else have I missed?

The lads in Galway scrapping in traffic outside the Garda Station

jay0109 · 24-11-2018 9:40pm

dan1895 wrote: »

The lads in Galway scrapping in traffic outside the Garda Station

That's just everyday cultural stuff...can't be highlighting 'minor' issues like that or I'd crash my computer!
I'm thinking more along the lines of the spectaculars such as Drogheda in lockdown or babies being shot

Floppybits · 24-11-2018 9:40pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

Because if they did they would need they own 24/7 news radio station :mad:

They would never be short of news. The sports section could cover the latest sulky races, show the latest call out videos on you tube and chair chucking competition.

Spanish Eyes · 24-11-2018 9:43pm

Ignore button is your absolute friend, except when some quote them. lol.

My sanity has been saved by ignoring two posters in particular. But each to their own.

I did engage and do like an exchange of views, but with this twinning pair, NO, not anymore!

Sanity is more important to me. I am not without sin though either let it be said!

Gimme A Pound · 24-11-2018 9:53pm

I don't use the ignore button as they'll be quoted anyway - I've learned just to scroll past and remain in blissful oblivion.

Sheep breeder · 24-11-2018 10:04pm

end of the road wrote: »

the fact we are currently speaking ill of the actions of some travelers, shows that we are in fact allowed to speak ill of actions commited by travelers.
the job of pavee point is to campaign against discrimination against, and fairness for the traveling community, something they seem to do quite well. it's not fair that anyone commits crime, but unfortunately they do, and as it stands there is little will to do what needs to be done to deal more effectively with the problem of criminality. the gardai are underfunded and the sentencing is low for a lot of crimes.
pavee point can only do so much, and the unfortunate reality is, that those who do discriminate against travelers, are the likely reason why pavee point feel unable to address criminality among an element of the community.
if pavee point or travelers don't make the effort, it is still your job to make the effort, because ultimately we want the issues to be solved. if we don't make the effort, it is a lot more likely the issues won't be resolved, because we are in the majority.
the state must provide services to those who break the law, where such services are required, because they have an obligation to do so, as such services will allow them to seak fair justice, and once finished their punishment, may provide necessary supports to those people, which may move them away from law breaking. if someone breaks the law, then it is on the state to punish them for doing so.

For once would you please take off the blinkers and look around you and take a deep breath.

BBFAN · 24-11-2018 10:29pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I would run a mile from anything these people had any involvement in they are just too dangerous and vicious as that poor referee has found out.

I am happy to have nothing to do with them I don't want to know them and I have no problem saying I hate them with a passion all of them no exceptions.

Tell me why should I make exceptions when there are people like you who will tie yourself in knots trying to cover up to deflect and blame others for their savage behaviour?

You'll get reported and a warning for that. Guarantee it. :rolleyes:

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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