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Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Sentencing Memos coming up this week which will reveal a lot of the Mueller investigation. Flynn's today (May be sealed), Manafort's on Friday wont be sealed.
    Memo will be explaining in detail how Manafort lied to thwart his coperation agreement.
    Mueller will use these memos to cover the possibility of a hostile AG supressing his final report.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/03/opinions/mueller-is-about-to-have-his-say-honig/index.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,792 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    demfad wrote: »
    Dershowitz has repeatedly publicly defended Trump: as lately as last week. He still works for Epstein.
    Acosta who defended Epstein in his case is now Minister for Labour.

    Uhh, secretary of Labor not minister :) And it's labor in the US. j/k

    Epstein is nothing new, though the Miami newspaper expose is interesting. I want to point out, that when Epstein was making news (before Trump was in the picture), Dershowitz was mentioned and the guy went nuclear, saying things like he'd 'destroy' any lawyer that took a case against him and have him disbarred, etc. etc. Dershowitz's not a nice guy and (IANAL but am related to a few) threatening other lawyers was over the top. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30705703


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Lolle06


    Epstein was closer to bill clinton than trump ever was, Dershowitz was a HRC campaign donor in 2008.

    No link between trump and convicted child abusers in Epsteins circle has ever been proved , if smoke without fire is allowed theres a list of people who should bare the brunt of this before trump and HRC + Bill Clinton are two of those.

    I think you find that Epstein is a good buddy of both men - Clinton AND Trump.
    Two wrongs don’t make it right though, so you should drop your defence of the indefensible!

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/trump-official-helped-millionaire-accused-of-pedophilia-get-off-nearly-scot-free-1.6700800

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-civil-case-witness-list-billionaire-paedophile-a7631891.html

    >>“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years,” Trump told New York magazine in 2002, calling Epstein a “terrific guy,” and “a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.“<<

    That is a quote by Donald Trump, NOT the Clintons!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,874 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069970500535902208

    Does anyone out there really believe that this guy knows what the hell he is talking about? "Taking in" billions in tariffs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,357 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069970500535902208

    Does anyone out there really believe that this guy knows what the hell he is talking about? "Taking in" billions in tariffs?

    If you replace "we are" with 'I am', it makes perfect sense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭eire4


    Trump is unhappy with how much the US spends on the military. This was after he increased spending on the military.

    I'm sure this is was all part of some genius plan of his we aren't getting but someone will create the plan soon for us.


    Of course I mean come on the US only spends way more then any country on the planet on their military and has even increased that spending under the current regime. How could he not be unhappy it is just not enough.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,246 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Gbear wrote: »
    Is there a breakdown of the nuts and bolts of the case and what the implications would be if they find against Trump?
    This tweet summarized it well.

    https://twitter.com/feefer2/status/1069726769547071489


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,064 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Dow down about 3% today, very volatile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Nody wrote: »

    So even if, one way or the other, he can be found in favour of in this case, it might well have broader implications with regards to money laundering, fraud, tax evasion, corruption or treason if there are irregularities in his returns.


    Why does it matter that they are made public or otherwise analysed? If he was guilty of anything and his returns pointed to it, why wouldn't the IRS already have fallen on him like a pack of rabid dogs?

    As I understand it, all Americans file tax returns directly, so surely they already have whatever he's made available, and as someone whose known to be involved with numerous shady or crooked individuals, they'd have been sniffing around him for years?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,552 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Gbear wrote: »
    So even if, one way or the other, he can be found in favour of in this case, it might well have broader implications with regards to money laundering, fraud, tax evasion, corruption or treason if there are irregularities in his returns.


    Why does it matter that they are made public or otherwise analysed? If he was guilty of anything and his returns pointed to it, why wouldn't the IRS already have fallen on him like a pack of rabid dogs?

    As I understand it, all Americans file tax returns directly, so surely they already have whatever he's made available, and as someone whose known to be involved with numerous shady or crooked individuals, they'd have been sniffing around him for years?
    You can assume Mueller has them right from the beginning. So whatever they reveal to him has already been followed through on. But making them public means that they are now available politically as well. So it will be a storm in the media and the houses of congress. It could completely destroy his ambitions of running in 2020. Assuming he gets that far of course.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Water John wrote: »
    Dow down about 3% today, very volatile.

    Has he started blaming the Democrats yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,357 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Has he started blaming the Democrats yet?

    Has he ever stopped blaming the Democrats?


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    What time today is the Michael Flynn document being released ? I realise that some of it may be kept under seal but it's expected to be filed today in court.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gbear wrote: »
    Nody wrote: »

    So even if, one way or the other, he can be found in favour of in this case, it might well have broader implications with regards to money laundering, fraud, tax evasion, corruption or treason if there are irregularities in his returns.


    Why does it matter that they are made public or otherwise analysed? If he was guilty of anything and his returns pointed to it, why wouldn't the IRS already have fallen on him like a pack of rabid dogs?

    As I understand it, all Americans file tax returns directly, so surely they already have whatever he's made available, and as someone whose known to be involved with numerous shady or crooked individuals, they'd have been sniffing around him for years?
    There is a diffence between your tax returns showing money being paid to you for business deals with Russia and any tax issues that may raise, and having dealings with Russia whilst running for president and claiming to have nothing to do with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,874 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So what happened to stone saying there was no situation he'd testify against trump as he'd have to lie ?

    Isn't pleading the 5th basically saying if you said anything you'd incriminate yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,874 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So what happened to stone saying there was no situation he'd testify against trump as he'd have to lie ?

    Isn't pleading the 5th basically saying if you said anything you'd incriminate yourself.

    “The mob takes the Fifth,” Trump said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” - 2016


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Lindsay graham and bob corker had a briefing with the CIA director and are clearly annoyed about what they heard about mbs and his involvement in the murder in turkey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    What time today is the Michael Flynn document being released ? I realise that some of it may be kept under seal but it's expected to be filed today in court.


    Midnight here, according to strangers on the internet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So what happened to stone saying there was no situation he'd testify against trump as he'd have to lie ?

    Isn't pleading the 5th basically saying if you said anything you'd incriminate yourself.

    It's the safest legal strategy for him vis a vis Congressional committees. By pleading the 5th, he can't be accused of lying to Congress later, if anyone else has said something that he tells differently. By pleading the 5th to Congressional committees, however, it doesn't reduce his exposure from.evidence of alleged wrongdoing that might have been supplied from other sources, such as Cohen and/or Manafort/Gates of Credito/Corsi.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069970500535902208

    Does anyone out there really believe that this guy knows what the hell he is talking about? "Taking in" billions in tariffs?

    And that's because it's US companies selling US products to the raiders at prices that Don doesn't approve of, except for Saudi Arabia and other allies of Don.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Just found out that as we speak, results are coming in from the Georgia Secretary of State election runoff. This is important because in half the US states, an official (sometimes elected, other times appointed) called the Secretary of State runs the elections in each state. During the election, the Democrats accused the Georgia gubernatorial election candidate (who won), Brian Kemp, of voter suppression. He happened to be the Secretary of State during the election.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    everlast75 wrote: »

    And if the Senate subpoena's him to appear, I take it he can claim the 5th there while still appearing before it or can it legally oblige to him answer questions put to him, with a declaration of no prosecution in respect of any criminal acts and deeds done by him relevant to the matter before the senate committee, under pain of imprisonment for contempt of congress. That'd be a horror for the courts to handle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    aloyisious wrote: »
    And if the Senate subpoena's him to appear,


    Unlikely with Grassley in charge of the subpoena pen. The Senate Intelligence Committee, on the other hand might be a little different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    aloyisious wrote: »
    And if the Senate subpoena's him to appear, I take it he can claim the 5th there while still appearing before it or can it legally oblige to him answer questions put to him, with a declaration of no prosecution in respect of any criminal acts and deeds done by him relevant to the matter before the senate committee, under pain of imprisonment for contempt of congress. That'd be a horror for the courts to handle.

    The Senate could grant him immunity, in which case he could no longer plea the 5th. However, in order to grant immunity, 2/3rds of the Committee would have to agree it. Very rare apparently..

    That said, from Stone's personal perspective such immunity would mean he could never be prosecuted for anything related to evidence he might give- an even more powerful 'get out of jail' card than a Presidential Pardon..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    The Senate could grant him immunity, in which case he could no longer plea the 5th. However, in order to grant immunity, 2/3rds of the Committee would have to agree it. Very rare apparently..

    That said, from Stone's personal perspective such immunity would mean he could never be prosecuted for anything related to evidence he might give- an even more powerful 'get out of jail' card than a Presidential Pardon..
    Speaking of which I would point out that it was the Senate's granting of immunity to Admiral John Poindexter and Oliver North in the Iran Contra scandal that saved them from going to prison. For that reason I dont think the Democrats would support granting immunity, and Jeff Flake, who until January has the deciding vote on the Judiciary Committee would be unlikely to agree to it either.

    Update: Decision Desk projects that the Republican, Brad Raffensberger, has won the Georgia Secretary of State's race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Speaking of which I would point out that it was the Senate's granting of immunity to Admiral John Poindexter and Oliver North in the Iran Contra scandal that saved them from going to prison. For that reason I dont think the Democrats would support granting immunity, and Jeff Flake, who until January has the deciding vote on the Judiciary Committee would be unlikely to agree to it either.

    Just showing the messiness that is inherent in granting such immunity is the fact that, in the cases you mentioned, both North and Poindexter were actually convicted initially. It was only after appeals that their convictions were reversed, based on arguments related to the congressional immunity. North had already carried out some of his community service sentence by the time his conviction was reversed. Also, it wasn't the immunity itself that saved him; rather the appeal.court held that the team handling his prosecution had not adequately demonstrated that they had inoculated themselves from being tainted by North's testimony to congress.

    So, without being a legal mind, it appears that immunity only applies to the testimony actually given and not to any underlying crimes which, if other corroborating evidence exists, can be independently prosecuted. It stil! sounds like a.minefield though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Flynn gives "substantial cooperation" to prosecutors. Mueller recommends no jail time. A Redditor gives a full breakdown of his activities.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/04/politics/flynn-mueller-filing/
    April 2014 — Flynn is fired as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency ("abusive with staff, didn't listen, worked against policy, bad management, etc." per Colin Powell).

    Oct. 2014 — Flynn founds Flynn Intel Group. In a letter from the DIA, Flynn is warned that he is prohibited from receiving "consulting fees, gifts, travel expenses, honoraria, or salary ... from a foreign government unless congressional consent is first obtained".

    Summer 2015 — Flynn is paid by ACU Strategic Partners to travel to the Middle East to promote a trillion-dollar Saudi-financed U.S.–Russian business to develop nuclear power capabilities in the Arab world. Flynn does not disclose this trip when applying for his security clearance renewal in Jan. 2016

    Late Summer 2015 — Flynn begins advising the Trump campaign.

    Aug. 2015 — Flynn receives a 13 200 EUR speaking fee from Volga-Dnepr Airlines, a Russian airfreight company that the U.N. had suspended from its list of approved vendors after a corruption scandal involving an indicted Russian U.N. official.

    Oct. 2015 — Flynn receives a 13 200 EUR speaking fee from a subsidiary Kaspersky Lab. Ruslan Stoyanov, head of Kaspersky's computer incidents investigation unit is arrested in Russia, for treason, in December 2016.

    Flynn travels to Saudi Arabia to again promote the Saudi/Russian nuclear project. He fails to disclose the nature of the travel and reports a fictional hotel name as his residence during the trip.

    Dec. 2 — Flynn and his son meet with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak at his Washington, D.C. residence. In a subsequent email to the Russian embassy, Flynn’s son described the meeting as “very productive”. The meeting came to light publicly only in April 2018.

    Dec. 10 — Seated directly at Vladimir Putin's right hand, Flynn appears in Moscow at a gala hosted by Kremlin-controlled propaganda outlet Russia Today (RT). RT pays Flynn 39 600 EUR for his participation and provides airfare, accommodations and other expenses for Flynn and his son.

    U.S. intelligence notices an uptick in communication between Flynn and Kislyak shortly after.

    Feb. 2016 — Flynn increases his role with the Trump campaign and is later vetted as a possible VP pick.

    Feb. 11 — While applying for renewal of his security clearance, Flynn tells Pentagon investigators that he had received no income from foreign companies and had only “insubstantial contact” with foreign nationals.

    May 2016 — Flynn joins the advisory board of OSY Technologies, part of the NSO Group, a secretive cyberweapons dealer founded by former Israeli intelligence officials. NSO's spyware is subsequently found to have been used to attack and surveil prominent journalists and human rights activists.

    July 18 — Flynn leads crowds at the Republican National Convention in chants of "Lock her up!", saying "if I did a tenth of what she did, I would be in jail today!".

    Aug. 9 — Flynn signs a contract with Inovo, a firm owned by Ekim Alptekin, a close ally and appointee of Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Flynn is assigned to run an influence campaign to discredit Fethullah Gulen, a Turkish cleric who lives in Pennsylvania and was blamed by Erdogan for a failed coup.

    Summer 2016 — Flynn Intel begins work on a pro-Turkey documentary, hiring professionals to shoot it, misleading them about the intentions of the project and working to conceal its role in producing the film.

    Aug. 17 — Flynn begins attending classified intelligence briefings with candidate Trump.

    Sept. 3 — Flynn and associates begin reaching out to Russian hackers in an attempt to obtain Clinton's personal e-mails and transmit them to Flynn through an intermediary.

    Sept. 19 — Flynn meets with Turkey's ministers of foreign affairs and energy, Erdogan's son-in-law, and other officials at an undisclosed New York hotel, in a meeting arranged by Alptekin. Among other topics, Flynn discusses a plan for "a covert step in the dead of night to whisk [Gulen] away" without going through the legal extradition process.

    Sept. 20 — Flynn, his son and business partners meet with Dana Rohrabacher, a U.S. congressman best known as a staunch advocate of pro-Russia policies.

    Nov. 8 — Election day. Flynn publishes a lengthy op-ed entitled "Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support". He states that "we need to see the world from Turkey’s perspective" and brands Gulen as "a radical Islamist". Flynn does not disclose to the publisher that he was being paid by Alptekin.

    Nov. 10 — Obama, in a face-to-face conversation with Trump, warns against hiring Flynn to be part of Trump's national security team.

    Nov. 11 — Media reports expose Flynn's contract with Alptekin to lobby on behalf of Turkey.

    Nov. 14 — Flynn receives the final installment of 466 400 EUR from Alptekin.

    Nov. 18 — Flynn accepts Trump's offer of the position of National Security Advisor. Pence receives a letter from Rep. Cummings notifying him of Flynn's work on behalf of Turkey.

    Nov. 30 — The Justice Department notifies Flynn that it is scrutinizing his work lobbying on behalf of the Turkish government.

    Nov./Dec. 2016 — Flynn meets with Austrian far-right leader Heinz-Christian Strache at Trump Tower. Strache announces weeks later that his party has signed a cooperation agreement with Vladimir Putin's ruling party.

    Dec. 1 — Flynn meets with Russian ambassador Kislyak and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner at Trump Tower. The men discuss the possibility of setting up a secret and secure communications channel between Trump’s transition team and the Kremlin, using Russian diplomatic facilities to shield their discussions from monitoring.

    Mid-Dec. — Flynn meets with the Turkish government to discuss an offer to pay him and his son as much as 13 EUR million to kidnap Gulen and deliver him to a Turkish prison island.

    Dec. 22 — Flynn secretly asks Kislyak for Russia's help to delay or defeat a pending UN Security Council resolution.

    Dec. 29 — Flynn secretly discusses relief from U.S. sanctions with Kislyak on the same day the Obama administration announces its response to Russian interference in the campaign.

    Jan. 4 — Flynn tells Trump’s transition team that he is under federal investigation for secretly working as a paid lobbyist for Turkey during the campaign.

    Jan. 6 (approx.) — The FBI begins investigating Flynn's late December phone conversations with Kislyak.

    Jan. 12 — Conforming to the wishes of Turkey, Flynn instructs the Obama administration to hold off on a military operation to retake the Islamic State’s de facto capital of Raqqa with Syrian Kurdish forces.

    Jan. 18 — Flynn attends a “working breakfast” with the Foreign Minister of Turkey and others, including Devin Nunes, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

    Jan. 20 — Trump is inaugurated. Flynn becomes National Security Advisor.

    Eleven minutes into the Trump presidency, Flynn texts ACU managing partner Alex Copson that the Russian nuclear plan is "good to go" and "to put things in place". Copson tells associates that Flynn would ensure that sanctions against Russia are "ripped up" and that "this is going to make a lot of very wealthy people".

    Jan. 22 — The WSJ reports that Flynn is under investigation by U.S. counterintelligence agents regarding his communications with Russian officials.

    Jan. 24 — The FBI interviews Flynn regarding his Russian contacts.

    Jan. 26 — Acting Attorney General Sally Yates informs the White House that Flynn misled the FBI in his interview, that the DOJ knew that Flynn’s public accounts were untrue, and expressed concerns that he was vulnerable to blackmail by Russian intelligence.

    Jan. 30 — Trump fires Yates.

    Feb. 13 — Flynn is forced out of his role as NSA after The Washington Post reports on Yates's warning to the Trump White House.

    Feb. 14 — In a private conversation with FBI director Comey, Trump asks Comey to end any investigation into Flynn, stating “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”

    March 7 — Flynn files paperwork acknowledging that he worked as a foreign agent representing the interests of the Turkish government.

    March 22 — Trump asks Director of National Intelligence Coats to intervene with Comey to get the FBI to back off its focus on Flynn.

    March 30 — Flynn tells the FBI and congressional officials that he is willing to be interviewed in exchange for immunity from prosecution, with his lawyer stating that “General Flynn has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit”.

    April 25 — Flynn tells associates, “I just got a message from the president to stay strong”.

    April/May — Federal prosecutors issue grand jury subpoenas to Flynn associates seeking “records, research, contracts, bank records, communications” relating to Flynn and Alptekin.

    May 9 — Trump fires Comey.

    May 22 — A House committee reveals that Flynn lied to Pentagon investigators about the source of money he received from RT when applying for security clearance in 2016.

    Flynn announces that he will not cooperate with a subpoena requiring him to hand over documents related to his dealings with Russians.

    June 2 — Special Counsel Mueller assumes control of a grand jury investigation into Flynn.

    August — Flynn files paperwork disclosing payments from SCL Group, a Virginia-based company related to Cambridge Analytica.

    Dec. 1 — Flynn pleads guilty to willfully and knowingly lying to the FBI about his December 2016 conversations with Kislyak.

    Dec. 4, 2018 — Mueller cites Flynn's "substantial" assistance with several criminal investigations when he recommends a sentence includes little to no jail time.

    Here is Lindsey Graham's response after being briefed by the CIA on Kashoggi



    Not a good 24 hours for Trump.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,833 ✭✭✭circadian


    Nov. 18 — Flynn accepts Trump's offer of the position of National Security Advisor. Pence receives a letter from Rep. Cummings notifying him of Flynn's work on behalf of Turkey.


    Looks like Pelosi for President is becoming increasingly likely.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,792 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Discussion of the offer of the penthouse to Putin is a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. I remember when I worked for a multinational how they, every year, drilled us about this. You can't offer *anything* at all without vetting it through your legal department, in advance, and getting approval, is what I learned. A pen, a pad of paper, whatever. No gifts to any foreign business contacts outside the company. Don't pay for meals. Nada.

    Trumpco of course has only the best people, some of whom are now at the reigns of the USG, they'd never violate the FCPA. Note that violations don't actually have to include the act of donating/giving whatever. Just corrupt intent, which is why you never offer anything.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-putin-fcpa-moscow-project-cohen_us_5c06b70ee4b066b5cfa6885d

    BTW, it might not be Trump himself is in violation, just the underlings that did the deed (was there a letter? email? something? that records this?) And in the maelstrom of corruption and criminality that surrounds Trump and TrumpCo, this is small potatoes.

    Congress and the USG will be after Trump and TrumpCo for years long after he's gone from the WH.


This discussion has been closed.
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