Prime time last night Direct Provision

jay0109 · 21-12-2018 4:47pm

It wasn't Charlie Flanagan on last night's Primetime propaganda programme, it was David Stanton TD, Jnr Minister for Immigration.
And the Labour rep was the one and only Aodhan O'Riordain. He's all for asylum seekers getting access to houses and not being put into DP centres...as long as those new houses that need to be built for them aren't in his constituency

batgoat · 21-12-2018 4:50pm

one world order wrote: »

Why did Ireland sign up to the international agreements recently of continued intake of economic migrants while the mainstream media refused to cover it?

They did cover it but didn't go the racist conspiracy route on it. Or your extended version which includes anti semitism.

JohnMc1 · 21-12-2018 4:59pm

Isn't it wonderful to be constantly lectured by millionaires [be it politicians, celebrities or media talking heads] that we need to sacrifice "for the greater good" while they continually sacrifice nothing.

batgoat · 21-12-2018 5:02pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Isn't it wonderful to be constantly lectured by millionaires [be it politicians, celebrities or media talking heads] that we need to sacrifice "for the greater good" while they continually sacrifice nothing.

So you think it was better when countries refused to take refugees from Germany and other states in world war 2?

JohnMc1 · 21-12-2018 5:07pm

batgoat wrote: »

So you think it was better when countries refused to take refugees from Germany and other states in world war 2?

These aren't refugees we're getting. They're economic migrants. They're only here for the free houses, €5000 "emergency money" and regular welfare payments thereafter. Meanwhile we have to work until we drop dead to support them. Then on top of that we have to change every aspect of our culture because it "offends them" and "makes them feel excluded" yet our welfare programs don't offend them.

batgoat · 21-12-2018 5:15pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

These aren't refugees we're getting. They're economic migrants. They're only here for the free houses, €5000 "emergency money" and regular welfare payments thereafter. Meanwhile we have to work until we drop dead to support them. Then on top of that we have to change every aspect of our culture because it "offends them" and "makes them feel excluded" yet our welfare programs don't offend them.

Oh and I'm going to say that's bull****. Direct provision doesn't allow you to work, you can potentially end up stuck in the system for years. The tiny bit of money the families get in direct provision isn't anything similar to lucrative and more making ends meet. There have been massive refugee crises in last few years btw. Eg Syria

Our culture hasn't experienced a significant cultural shift btw. Should really have expected the guy who believes there's a plot to wipe out white people to say anything better...

I've also had interactions with a fair few who have gone through direct provision btw. They were generally pretty qualified and as soon as they had opportunity to start working, they jumped at the chance.

JohnMc1 · 21-12-2018 5:21pm

batgoat wrote: »

Oh and I'm going to say that's bull****. Direct provision doesn't allow you to work, you can potentially end up stuck in the system for years. The tiny bit of money the families get in direct provision isn't anything similar to lucrative and more making ends meet. There have been massive refugee crises in last few years btw. Eg Syria

Our culture hasn't experienced a significant cultural shift btw. Should really have expected the guy who believes there's a plot to wipe out white people to say anything better...

I've also had interactions with a fair few who have gone through direct provision btw. They were generally pretty qualified and as soon as they had opportunity to start working, they jumped at the chance.

So have you finally taken them in then? To give us tax payers a break.

Yer Da sells Avon · 21-12-2018 5:22pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

These aren't refugees we're getting. They're economic migrants. They're only here for the free houses, €5000 "emergency money" and regular welfare payments thereafter. Meanwhile we have to work until we drop dead to support them. Then on top of that we have to change every aspect of our culture because it "offends them" and "makes them feel excluded" yet our welfare programs don't offend them.

Don't forget the free buggy that they can leave at the bus stop because the state'll give 'em another one.

It's worse AH is getting.

batgoat · 21-12-2018 5:27pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

So have you finally taken them in then? To give us tax payers a break.

Erm, the people I know who went through direct provision are now in full time employment so contribute as much as you or I. So John, you're not going to actually address anything I said? Instead come out with quips that are more suited to a comments section?

Kivaro · 21-12-2018 5:28pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

These aren't refugees we're getting. They're economic migrants. They're only here for the free houses, €5000 "emergency money" and regular welfare payments thereafter. Meanwhile we have to work until we drop dead to support them. Then on top of that we have to change every aspect of our culture because it "offends them" and "makes them feel excluded" yet our welfare programs don't offend them.

And don't forget the family reunification program.
Even housing charities in Dublin are becoming overwhelmed with that insane policy. It wasn't too long ago that a representative of one of those charities stated publicly that it wasn't just one refugee that they would have to house, but up to nine of that person's family would join them in Dublin, which makes finding homes for the additional refugee's family very difficult for them.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how Sinn Fein supporters can support the leadership of Sinn Fein. The likes of Mary Lou and previously Gerry Adams would loudly proclaim themselves as advocates for open borders. Now, this isn't open borders for asylum seekers, it is open borders for the whole damn world's needy.

How on earth is that sustainable for such a small country?
It's not. Unless you are looking for a mechanism to collapse the welfare state, and then forcefully bring in nationalisation and collectivism. The dystopian reality of Orwell's 1984 would then come in to play, and finally Sinn Fein would be happy. Mission accomplished.

Kivaro · 21-12-2018 5:31pm

seamus wrote: »

Have they really been far even as decided to use even go want to do more look like?

getSober()

Sonics2k · 21-12-2018 5:35pm

seamus wrote: »

Have they really been far even as decided to use even go want to do more look like?

I salute you for an old and beautiful reference.

Kivaro · 21-12-2018 5:42pm

batgoat wrote: »

Oh and I'm going to say that's bull****. Direct provision doesn't allow you to work, .....

And I call bullshoite on your bull****.
Asylum Seekers in Direct Provision can work under new regulations that kicked in late June/early July 2018. And those who work are expected to pay a contribution towards their accommodation in the direct provision system.

Don't expect your bullshoite to go unchallenged.

batgoat · 21-12-2018 5:47pm

Kivaro wrote: »

And I call bullshoite on your bull****.
Asylum Seekers in Direct Provision can work under new regulations that kicked in late June/early July 2018. And those who work are expected to pay a contribution towards their accommodation in the direct provision system.

Don't expect your bullshoite to go unchallenged.

Yep I'll happily accept that correction... Had not realised what point it had reached. So I think you're getting a tad overexcited...

JohnMc1 · 21-12-2018 6:18pm

Kivaro wrote: »

And don't forget the family reunification program.
Even housing charities in Dublin are becoming overwhelmed with that insane policy. It wasn't too long ago that a representative of one of those charities stated publicly that it wasn't just one refugee that they would have to house, but up to nine of that person's family would join them in Dublin, which makes finding homes for the additional refugee's family very difficult for them.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how Sinn Fein supporters can support the leadership of Sinn Fein. The likes of Mary Lou and previously Gerry Adams would loudly proclaim themselves as advocates for open borders. Now, this isn't open borders for asylum seekers, it is open borders for the whole damn world's needy.

How on earth is that sustainable for such a small country?
It's not. Unless you are looking for a mechanism to collapse the welfare state, and then forcefully bring in nationalisation and collectivism. The dystopian reality of Orwell's 1984 would then come in to play, and finally Sinn Fein would be happy. Mission accomplished.

Exactly. Ireland will collapse eventually. Africa is 10x the size of Europe and USA combined. Something will have to give eventually.

Kivaro · 21-12-2018 6:42pm

batgoat wrote: »

Yep I'll happily accept that correction... Had not realised what point it had reached. So I think you're getting a tad overexcited...

Will you go away out of it, will ya.
You are trying to project yourself as someone in close contact with asylum seekers in Direct Provision. If you didn't know that asylum seekers in Direct Provision could work for the last 6 months, then some may suspect that you are just full of it.

batgoat wrote: »

Erm, the people I know who went through direct provision are now in full time employment so contribute as much as you or I.

I'm curious on how you know how much the poster you were responding to contributes to Irish society. You seem adamant that the Direct Provision people that you know now working in full time employment contribute as much as him. Do you know the tax contributions of all of these people?

batgoat wrote: »

I've also had interactions with a fair few who have gone through direct provision btw. They were generally pretty qualified and as soon as they had opportunity to start working, they jumped at the chance.

I HATE multi-quotes, but it was necessary to show the inconsistencies here.

Mr. teddywinkles · 21-12-2018 6:53pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Great idea. We could advertise those jobs that Irish people don't want so immigrants take them.

Booooringggg

batgoat · 21-12-2018 7:02pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Will you go away out of it, will ya.
You are trying to project yourself as someone in close contact with asylum seekers in Direct Provision. If you didn't know that asylum seekers in Direct Provision could work for the last 6 months, then some may suspect that you are just full of it.

I'm curious on how you know how much the poster you were responding to contributes to Irish society. You seem adamant that the Direct Provision people that you know now working in full time employment contribute as much as him. Do you know the tax contributions of all of these people?

I HATE multi-quotes, but it was necessary to show the inconsistencies here.

You haven't highlighted any inconsistency. The people I know who were in direct provision exited it years ago, I had already stated that they were no longer in direct provision. In relation to contributions in terms of tax, you're being more pedantic than anything, the poster is portraying refugees as a bunch of scroungers. Frankly, they're not and plenty of refugees do have qualifications. Fleeing a war zone or an oppressive regime does not prevent this.

In addition, the main reason I have problems with posters like John is because he holds incredibly racist views. He has previously stated that he believes there's a plot to wipe out white people and such. His claims that there are no refugees and they're all economic migrants goes back to those views. So your hard hitting expose on my inconsistencies fails somewhat.

Mad_maxx · 21-12-2018 7:09pm

Listen to doctor David thunder ( cool name) who is an Irish academic based in Spain, he writes and occasionally appears on "the right side" podcast.

His thesis is that transporting Africans etc to Ireland is a flawed policy and that it does nothing to tackle the problems in those nations either, he believes we in the west must help developing countries but that the current policy is about dealing with the demographic decline of Western Europe, he also writes about how the echo chamber Irish media cannot fathom the idea that immigration could be anything but a positive, that being pro immigration is an article of faith for Irish liberals and how unconditional belief in any policy is highly dangerous

hill16bhoy · 21-12-2018 7:47pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Listen to doctor David thunder ( cool name) who is an Irish academic based in Spain, he writes and occasionally appears on "the right side" podcast.

His thesis is that transporting Africans etc to Ireland is a flawed policy and that it does nothing to tackle the problems in those nations either, he believes we in the west must help developing countries but that the current policy is about dealing with the demographic decline of Western Europe, he also writes about how the echo chamber Irish media cannot fathom the idea that immigration could be anything but a positive, that being pro immigration is an article of faith for Irish liberals and how unconditional belief in any policy is highly dangerous

I read Mr. Thunder's Irish Times article back in August. Five minutes of my life I'll never get back.

A lazy, lazy article filled with typical right-wing cliches, which amounted to nothing more than a whinge that a majority of people don't think like him.

No analysis of why his worldview has fallen in popularity to such an extent, no solutions for how "conservatism" should evolve or adapt to the modern world, nothing to back up his thesis that "conservatives" are being "silenced", just a whinge.

And that's the right's problem, not just the bat**** crazy, toxic far right but the more bog standard shade of plain old "conservatism". Everything with them is a whinge. They have no positive worldview, only a deeply negative one, and no constructive ideas for society. Turning the clock back 60 or 100 years, as so many of them would love to do, isn't a solution. Their only strategy is to blame others.

Even the moderate wing of the Tories such as Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry have now seen through the complete intellectual void that is at the heart of modern "conservatism" (which is an oxymoron).

Mad_maxx · 21-12-2018 8:11pm

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I read Mr. Thunder's Irish Times article back in August. Five minutes of my life I'll never get back.

A lazy, lazy article filled with typical right-wing cliches, which amounted to nothing more than a whinge that a majority of people don't think like him.

No analysis of why his worldview has fallen in popularity to such an extent, no solutions for how "conservatism" should evolve or adapt to the modern world, nothing to back up his thesis that "conservatives" are being "silenced", just a whinge.

And that's the right's problem, not just the bat**** crazy, toxic far right but the more bog standard shade of plain old "conservatism". Everything with them is a whinge. They have no positive worldview, only a deeply negative one, and no constructive ideas for society. Turning the clock back 60 or 100 years, as so many of them would love to do, isn't a solution. Their only strategy is to blame others.

Even the moderate wing of the Tories such as Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry have now seen through the complete intellectual void that is at the heart of modern "conservatism" (which is an oxymoron).

Plenty of clichés in the above post.

How do you know most don't share doctor thunders view?

Not like we have a representative media in Ireland

Kivaro · 21-12-2018 8:21pm

batgoat wrote: »

......he holds incredibly racist views.

Even the defense of your inconsistencies has inconsistencies.
And then you use the racism claim.

I find that one cannot have a rational discussion with someone who keep using words like racism, far right, alt right, right wing etc. as part of their counterargument. It usually just shows the lack of intellect in a topic.
The good news is that there is an ignore list, and you are its newest member.

batgoat · 21-12-2018 8:25pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Even the defense of your inconsistencies has inconsistencies.
And then you use the racism claim.

I find that one cannot have a rational discussion with someone who keep using words like racism, far right, alt right, right wing etc. as part of their counterargument. It usually just shows the lack of intellect in a topic.
The good news is that there is an ignore list, and you are its newest member.

I am completely saddened....

[Deleted User] · 21-12-2018 8:29pm

Every single survey of best and worst countries for quality of life, corruption, tolerance of minorities, crime etc routinely has the same countries at the top and the same ones at the bottom.

I would be more than happy to take Danes or Swiss people into Ireland, I feel we could learn and benefit from them. African countries? Not so much. Why are those countries failing? Importing the cultural values and customs that underpins sh*thole countries can only harm Ireland. It really isn't difficult.

hill16bhoy · 21-12-2018 8:34pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Plenty of clichés in the above post.

How do you know most don't share doctor thunders view?

Not like we have a representative media in Ireland

No, just home truths.

I'd say the 2015 same sex marriage referendum and the 2018 referendum on the 8th Amendment are pretty indisputable proof that the majority don't share his views.

As is pretty much every election in Ireland for yonks.

"Conservatives" have a massive platform in the Irish media.

It's nobody else's fault except their own that their "arguments" are so transparently disingenuous, turgid and/or boorish that they just serve to push people well away from their views.

None of them seem to know what it is they're complaining about, or if they know, they have a total inability to be honest about what it is they're complaining about.

However there have a few high profile Irish "conservative" voices who have strayed into honesty.

Kevin Myers strayed into honesty when he called single mothers "mothers of bastards" and then resorted to anti-semitic stereotypes.

John Waters strayed into honesty when he engaged in rampant homophobic abuse and basically called for a Catholic theocracy.

George Hook strayed into honesty when he implied there was no such thing as marital rape and then blamed a rape victim for her own rape on air.

Gemma O'Doherty has recently strayed into honesty. She also outed herself as a reving anti-semite, an anti-vax crank, and a borderline neo-Nazi in the process.

These four "conservative voices" strayed into honesty. And they're telling cases about why most conservatives are so frequently dishonest in their "arguments".

It's because when "conservatives" are honest, their views turn out to be utterly abhorrent and toxic, and ones which any reasonable person wouldn't touch with a 40 foot pole.

Sleeper12 · 21-12-2018 8:34pm

I thought this was a wind up till I saw the op account is 10 years old.

Who exactly told you that these men are uneducated?

You do realise that we will need hundreds of thousands of emigrants to pay my pension in the next 20 years?

Are you suggesting that these emigrants Need to be white chatholics? I'll be very honest here, I've paid into the Irish tax system since I left school in 1982 aged 14. I have helped bail the country out twice now. I help pay the pension of the richest OAPS Ireland has ever known. I could care less if the taxpayers supporting me in my retirement are Muslim, Catholic or from Mars. So long as they pay tax & I get my state pension after 54 years working I don't care if I hear the call to prayer twice a day from O Connell Street.

Sleeper12 · 21-12-2018 8:36pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote:

To use a modern turn of phrase, lol.

Not a modern term at all. Went out of fashion over 10 years ago but hey, who am I to criticise

Atoms for Peace · 21-12-2018 8:40pm

Once the barbarians came from north of the Rhine to the shores of the the Mare Nostrum, today they come across it to get north of the Rhine. History is a whole load of swings and roundabouts, but the outcome will still be disastrous in the long run.

JohnMc1 · 21-12-2018 8:48pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Listen to doctor David thunder ( cool name) who is an Irish academic based in Spain, he writes and occasionally appears on "the right side" podcast.

His thesis is that transporting Africans etc to Ireland is a flawed policy and that it does nothing to tackle the problems in those nations either, he believes we in the west must help developing countries but that the current policy is about dealing with the demographic decline of Western Europe, he also writes about how the echo chamber Irish media cannot fathom the idea that immigration could be anything but a positive, that being pro immigration is an article of faith for Irish liberals and how unconditional belief in any policy is highly dangerous

I pointed out why its dangerous in my previous post. The Continent of Africa is 10x the size of Europe [including Ireland and the UK] Importing them in with no standards or limits will cripple if not outright destroy our economies.

We've been helping 3rd World Countries for Decades [via tax dollars and charity money] and they're still 3rd World Countries. Maybe its time to close the check books and let them stand on their own. "I'll just go to America or Europe" should no longer be an option.

Grayson · 21-12-2018 8:49pm

DontThankMe wrote: »

It seems like there's a trend developing for borderline racist threads in after hours at the moment.

Makes you miss the usual dole & traveller bashing threads.

I hadn't noticed that they had stopped.

Prime time last night Direct Provision

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