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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Never said they weren't important. Just noticed they're never in the spotlight when people talk about pay.

    There's 17 government departments, yet people only focus on the same 3 or 4.

    Yeah the ones on strike every year


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Yeah the ones on strike every year
    You're a sad, strange man...

    I wish you all the best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    You're a sad, strange man...

    I wish you all the best.

    I never try to throw underhanded insults.

    The thing about me is , if I am controlling my wife I don’t hide it. Let’s end the silence


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 162 ✭✭David73


    Paramedic should get paid more than nurses, they work way more harder in tougher conditions!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Funny how no one pays any attention to all the other staff the public service employ.

    All the executive officers, accountants, auditors, revenue officers and the like who get paid very good wages as it's recognised they'll just pop into the private sector if they get a better offer.

    Accountant and auditor are not grades in the civil service.

    There is no such thing as a Revenue officer. Revenue employees are paid the exact same as their equivalents in other departments.

    Don't know what you mean by EO's pay is "very good wages", as if €27000 to €46000 after 14 to 20 years service is megabucks - or would keep someone out of the private sector. An EO is not a high grade in the civil service.

    People have this idea that the public sector is where the money is. It's not. At all. Public sector employment is a trade off between money vs job security.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Never said they weren't important. Just noticed they're never in the spotlight when people talk about pay.

    There's 17 government departments, yet people only focus on the same 3 or 4.

    That’s because they’re not on strike constantly or threatening it. Nurses, and to a lesser teachers, Gardai and ambulance staff seem to live in a perpetual state of misery and strike readiness with a never ending complex of victimhood and general down trodden ness. You’d wonder why they went into the career in the first place.
    Like most of the public I’ve totally switched off from this now, I just feel sorry for patients caught in the middle waiting for important appointments and procedures that they are willingly holding to ransom over their never ending pay demands.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    David73 wrote: »
    Paramedic should get paid more than nurses, they work way more harder in tougher conditions!

    Nice, new and fresh account with profound insight.

    I'm going to guess you're either fresh out a NAS College after being an ambulance chaser your whole life OR just a rereg to try to troll.

    When a crew of two are expected to triage, treat and follow up on 30+ patients at a time, as routine - they'll get their time. Scope of practice for paramedics in this country is dismal when compared to international standards and accountability is near zero.

    My sister is an Advanced Paramedic in this country after practicing in many countries abroad and while I think AP scope is fantastic - Paramedics are lacking. For the record; she would also agree that nurses are due to be paid more due to the very nature of the work. AP's are making a mint in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    A few points:

    Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

    The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

    I worked in 3 EU countries (not the UK) as a nurse as I'm good with languages. In all of them I earned less than in Ireland, but could rent a one bed apartment of my own for about 30% of my pay. Irish nurses can't.

    They have the same four year degree as occupational therapists and physics, but earn far less. I work in allied health now and am on 20k more than the highest grade of nursing. It was not a higher degree than nursing just a different one, I did it while working as a nurse. I'm not a manager etc. Just a different allied health field with the same four year degree and the starting salary is 55k, starting salary for nurses is 29. Disgraceful.

    The public forgets that nurses have to be carers, engineers (complicated equipment) medication experts, physics and occupational therapists all in one. They can lose their license over a small medication error. A physio won't, so less stress. Just as an example.

    Finally: people's perception of nursing is old fashioned. We are not nuns. We do not have callings or vocations. We are not angels of mercy. We are educated skilled professionals. If the terms and conditions in Ireland are bad, we will leave. You will have a system predominantly staffed by nurses from developing countries., Who are wonderful, but a mix of locals and foreigners is better. Too many is not good, I say this as an Irish nurse who has been the foreigner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    seasidedub wrote: »
    I worked in 3 EU countries (not the UK) as I work in allied health now and am on 20k more than the highest grade of nursing. It was not a higher degree than nursing just a different one, I did it while working as a nurse. I'm not a manager etc. Just a different allied health field with the same four year degree and the starting salary is 55k, starting salary for nurses is 29. Disgraceful.

    r.

    Sorry. There's no allied health graduates who start on 55k a year. Calling bullshet on your post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    seasidedub wrote: »
    A few points:

    Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

    The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

    I worked in 3 EU countries (not the UK) as a nurse as I'm good with languages. In all of them I earned less than in Ireland, but could rent a one bed apartment of my own for about 30% of my pay. Irish nurses can't.

    They have the same four year degree as occupational therapists and physics, but earn far less. I work in allied health now and am on 20k more than the highest grade of nursing. It was not a higher degree than nursing just a different one, I did it while working as a nurse. I'm not a manager etc. Just a different allied health field with the same four year degree and the starting salary is 55k, starting salary for nurses is 29. Disgraceful.

    The public forgets that nurses have to be carers, engineers (complicated equipment) medication experts, physics and occupational therapists all in one. They can lose their license over a small medication error. A physio won't, so less stress. Just as an example.

    Finally: people's perception of nursing is old fashioned. We are not nuns. We do not have callings or vocations. We are not angels of mercy. We are educated skilled professionals. If the terms and conditions in Ireland are bad, we will leave. You will have a system predominantly staffed by nurses from developing countries., Who are wonderful, but a mix of locals and foreigners is better. Too many is not good, I say this as an Irish nurse who has been the foreigner.

    What job are you doing now?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    seasidedub wrote: »
    A few points:

    Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

    The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

    I worked in 3 EU countries (not the UK) as a nurse as I'm good with languages. In all of them I earned less than in Ireland, but could rent a one bed apartment of my own for about 30% of my pay. Irish nurses can't.

    They have the same four year degree as occupational therapists and physics, but earn far less. I work in allied health now and am on 20k more than the highest grade of nursing. It was not a higher degree than nursing just a different one, I did it while working as a nurse. I'm not a manager etc. Just a different allied health field with the same four year degree and the starting salary is 55k, starting salary for nurses is 29. Disgraceful.

    The public forgets that nurses have to be carers, engineers (complicated equipment) medication experts, physics and occupational therapists all in one. They can lose their license over a small medication error. A physio won't, so less stress. Just as an example.

    Finally: people's perception of nursing is old fashioned. We are not nuns. We do not have callings or vocations. We are not angels of mercy. We are educated skilled professionals. If the terms and conditions in Ireland are bad, we will leave. You will have a system predominantly staffed by nurses from developing countries., Who are wonderful, but a mix of locals and foreigners is better. Too many is not good, I say this as an Irish nurse who has been the foreigner.

    Great post


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Top of the scale for a staff nurse is 45,703. How much is the education allowance. We'd need to know that figure as I don't think physios and OT's get an education allowance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    seasidedub wrote: »
    A few points:

    Irish nurses start at lower rates than in many other comparable countries, you need to work 15 years to be on 45k. They move very slowly up the pay scale.

    The pay is not enough to allow a nurse who is single to rent her/his own small apartment in a major urban area (where most hospitals are) . Sharing rooms at 20 might be ok, but not at 35 or 40. You go to university to have a reasonable standard, nurses can't have it on their pay in Ireland.

    I worked in 3 EU countries (not the UK) as a nurse as I'm good with languages. In all of them I earned less than in Ireland, but could rent a one bed apartment of my own for about 30% of my pay. Irish nurses can't.

    They have the same four year degree as occupational therapists and physics, but earn far less. I work in allied health now and am on 20k more than the highest grade of nursing. It was not a higher degree than nursing just a different one, I did it while working as a nurse. I'm not a manager etc. Just a different allied health field with the same four year degree and the starting salary is 55k, starting salary for nurses is 29. Disgraceful.

    The public forgets that nurses have to be carers, engineers (complicated equipment) medication experts, physics and occupational therapists all in one. They can lose their license over a small medication error. A physio won't, so less stress. Just as an example.

    Finally: people's perception of nursing is old fashioned. We are not nuns. We do not have callings or vocations. We are not angels of mercy. We are educated skilled professionals. If the terms and conditions in Ireland are bad, we will leave. You will have a system predominantly staffed by nurses from developing countries., Who are wonderful, but a mix of locals and foreigners is better. Too many is not good, I say this as an Irish nurse who has been the foreigner.

    My adult son started on a salary of 40,000 and he pays 800 euros for a room in a shared house. He cant save for his own place and he would pay even more renting near some hospitals.

    Nurses are in the exact same position renting wise as other young people, choice is pay high rent in good locations or move further out and commute.

    End of the day nurses in oublic hospitals are PS workers and thus tied into a pay agreement. They wont be allowed to break that agreement because other PS workers are looking on. Some of those wanting nurses to get extra pay are wishing for this so their own unind can follow suit demanding extra pay too.

    The nurses need to go back to work now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    tretorn wrote:
    Nurses are in the exact same position renting wise as other young people, choice is pay high rent in good locations or move further out and commute.


    Maybe a major part of the problem is our dysfunctional housing market?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Maybe a major part of the problem is our dysfunctional housing market?

    Yes, it is but nurses seem to think they are some sort of special species who are more deserving of reasonably priced accommodation than other young workers who have worked their butts off through college.

    Its not just nurses who are leaving for better opportunities everywhere, my son will probably leave too. He said he is tired of sharing and waiting to have a shower in the morning. He knows in many other countries with a salary like he has he would be able to afford a small apartment. How can a young person save with rent at 800 euros plus and this is a mates rate and it doesnt include utilities. Is he supposed to work harder to pay the increase the nurses want, he isnt looking at what other graduates are starting on and saying I want that because boo, hoo I went to college for four years too.

    I am not supporting any nurse who thinks that by whooping outside hospitals full of very sick people that they can demand to start on the same salary as Physios, thats not how negotiations work. The nurses like every other PS worker will get their pay increase at a designated time and if nurses dont like this they can look for alternative employment or travel to another country. If they want to be paid the same as PHysios and Dietiticans and other allied health professionals then they can go back and do a Post Grad qualification in these areas.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 17 CasePuma2015


    I think they will get a pay rise but not as big as whatever they're asking for


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    alloywheel wrote: »
    Two wrongs do not make a right.

    In other countries public sector pay and private sector pay are the same.

    In Ireland the public sector gets much more on average.

    About 40% more


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Public support or the lack of can easily make or break a strike.

    Irish people have regard for nurses in our DNA

    People instinctively back the nurses


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    About 40% more

    Much like the so called gender pay gap that is not true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,758 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    I think they will get a pay rise but not as big as whatever they're asking for


    Even €1 an hour extra breaks the PS Agreement.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    backspin. wrote: »
    Top of the scale for a staff nurse is 45,703. How much is the education allowance. We'd need to know that figure as I don't think physios and OT's get an education allowance.

    The education allowance is not much, but other ahps get nothing.
    I know this varies from hospital to hospital, but I have known quite a few nurses who have done postgrad programs, had their full fees paid, and had the time off to do the hours without it affecting their annual leave. I have also known nurses who have had promotions literally created to meet them when they get their qualification. I’m sure there is an obligation to work for who ever provides this funding afterwards, but I’m sure someone else will know more about this than I.
    But I do know, that ahps rarely get funding. When I did a masters, I got 4 days per academic year, and used my annual leave for the rest (there were a lot of days). I paid over €10k of my own money to do the course, and never got any recognition for it on a professional level. It may or may not have helped in interview outside of the public sector, as in, it might have looked good on paper, but within the hse, when interviewing for a post at staff grade or senior level, a masters counts for nothing, it will not be taken into account.

    AHPs also would often do weekend courses at their own expense, and with no time back for it, meaning they are essentially working 12 days in a row. Again, this varies from place to place, so somebody else could have a totally different experience


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    tretorn wrote: »
    Yes, it is but nurses seem to think they are some sort of special species who are more deserving of reasonably priced accommodation than other young workers who have worked their butts off through college.

    Its not just nurses who are leaving for better opportunities everywhere, my son will probably leave too. He said he is tired of sharing and waiting to have a shower in the morning. He knows in many other countries with a salary like he has he would be able to afford a small apartment. How can a young person save with rent at 800 euros plus and this is a mates rate and it doesnt include utilities. Is he supposed to work harder to pay the increase the nurses want, he isnt looking at what other graduates are starting on and saying I want that because boo, hoo I went to college for four years too.

    I am not supporting any nurse who thinks that by whooping outside hospitals full of very sick people that they can demand to start on the same salary as Physios, thats not how negotiations work. The nurses like every other PS worker will get their pay increase at a designated time and if nurses dont like this they can look for alternative employment or travel to another country. If they want to be paid the same as PHysios and Dietiticans and other allied health professionals then they can go back and do a Post Grad qualification in these areas.

    What are your thoughts on the landlord and housing models given that those are part of the reason your son cant afford an apartment of his own.

    Or is it just Nurses you have a problem with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Irish people have regard for nurses in our DNA

    People instinctively back the nurses

    I can never understand this. I was listening to a nurse crying on the radio this morning about how they are doing it for the patients. This despite the fact that they are just picketing for more money for themselves.

    Nurses like a lot of public servants like to portray themselves as some sort of martyrs donating their time for the common good. I'm sick to death of them always whinging. They knew what they were going into and could do with a major reality check over their expectations. The government will cave in and meet them in the middle somewhere as they always do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    road_high wrote: »
    That’s because they’re not on strike constantly or threatening it. Nurses, and to a lesser teachers, Gardai and ambulance staff seem to live in a perpetual state of misery and strike readiness with a never ending complex of victimhood and general down trodden ness. You’d wonder why they went into the career in the first place.
    Like most of the public I’ve totally switched off from this now, I just feel sorry for patients caught in the middle waiting for important appointments and procedures that they are willingly holding to ransom over their never ending pay demands.

    You struggle to keep info in your head ! It’s been said numerous times here that this is only the 2nd time in the foundation of the state that nurses have gone on strike ! Please keep that in your head while you type your ramblings


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Miike wrote: »
    Nice, new and fresh account with profound insight.

    I'm going to guess you're either fresh out a NAS College after being an ambulance chaser your whole life OR just a rereg to try to troll.

    When a crew of two are expected to triage, treat and follow up on 30+ patients at a time, as routine - they'll get their time. Scope of practice for paramedics in this country is dismal when compared to international standards and accountability is near zero.

    My sister is an Advanced Paramedic in this country after practicing in many countries abroad and while I think AP scope is fantastic - Paramedics are lacking. For the record; she would also agree that nurses are due to be paid more due to the very nature of the work. AP's are making a mint in this country.

    It's an issue with job titles really, they could have just called Irish Paramedics a technician and just called Advanced Paremedics simply a Paramedic.

    The "skills deficit" would then be around zero and everyone who likes to do international comparisons would be happy.

    The real thing to be looking at is - what is the actual care and skillset available to the patient pre hospital.

    Are there enough Advanced Paramedics available???? - do we need more?????..

    The national trauma plan alludes to considering the idea of upskilling Advanced Paramedics further to better meet the needs of what the trauma plan will likely require.

    So for example more direct transport from the scene of an accident over longer distances to the big hospital.

    What the ambulance service has achieved over the last 15 years in terms of the development of Advanced Paramedics etc has been outstanding when viewed againsed the Irish norms.

    But there is always room for more improvement.

    The service has historically always been under resourced and this has never been properly addressed


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    redlead wrote: »
    The government will cave in and meet them in the middle somewhere as they always do.

    Then the government will have to meet everyone else in the middle too as the demands come crashing in. And that is basically a new pay agreement slap bang in the middle of an existing pay agreement. It's messy.

    Even the dogs in the street know nurses aren't coming out with 45k a year when all is said and done. It's probably more like 55k.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Maybe a major part of the problem is our dysfunctional housing market?

    Not according to nurses.
    They want more money as they are highly skilled, highly trained and their pay doesn't match similarly qualified folk they work with.

    This isn't the topic for you to derail with loony left w@nkology.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    hawkelady wrote: »
    You struggle to keep info in your head ! It’s been said numerous times here that this is only the 2nd time in the foundation of the state that nurses have gone on strike ! Please keep that in your head while you type your ramblings

    When was the first because I remember them in industrial action about 10 years ago seeking a reduction in their hours.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    redlead wrote: »
    I'm sick to death of them always whinging.


    Is this not only the second time that they have gone on strike? Hardly 'always whinging'.


    redlead wrote: »
    They knew what they were going into and could do with a major reality check over their expectations.


    There would be a reasonable expectation that pay restoration would be a feature at some point in their career, so it's not really a case of needing a 'reality check'.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    Achasanai wrote: »
    Is this not only the second time that they have gone on strike? Hardly 'always whinging'.

    .

    Have you ever spent more than 10 mins with a nurse? They never shut up complaining about pay, hours, holidays. If you are one think about it for a while.


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