Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Twenty Grand · 09-01-2019 1:37pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

How do the working conditions compare ?

How does the cost of living compare?
How does the take home pay compare?
How does the euro/pound per hour worked compare?

professore · 09-01-2019 1:38pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's peanuts.

People with skills have to tolerate paltry 'starting salaries' for some reason, whereas general operatives get paid for the work they do.

Typical mendacious attitude of the begrudger.

.

In a skilled job you are a liability and a drain on those around you until you get up to speed. Once you are skilled you have lots of options. That's why the starting pay is low.

blanch152 · 09-01-2019 1:38pm

Green&Red wrote: »

I wouldn’t agree they are well paid, a nurse with five years experience is on about €38k. Throw in a shift bonus and it still wouldn’t clear €40k. For someone with a degree and the amount of s**t they have to put up with it’s not very well paid at all.

Having said that the job hasn’t changed since they decided to go into nursing. The argument that they don’t get as well paid as the other professions in hospitals is invalid too, they knew that going into it. They’re claiming it’s about patient welfare but them on more pay isn’t going to make more of them, it’s be the exact same care they’re delivering

It’s impossible to see how the government can give in, Brexit is on our doorstep, bend here and all the pay agreements are out the window, teachers, civil servants, guards will all be out on strike

They are well-paid compared to most European countries.

https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/health-at-a-glance-2015/remuneration-of-nurses_health_glance-2015-29-en#page2

This data shows that Irish nurses are the third-highest paid in the world behind Luxembourg and the US (figure 5.21).

The previous figure is interesting (figure 5.20). Nurses fare less well in Ireland if you express their pay relative to average wage. It is actually a status issue for nurses in Ireland about how their wages compares to the average person in Ireland, rather than how their wage compares internationally.

blanch152 · 09-01-2019 1:40pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Compared to a new entrant nurse in the English NHS, a new entrant nurse in Ireland earns 21 per cent more in basic pay based on current exchange rates. While allowances and promotional opportunities differ across jurisdictions, a nurse at the top of the HSE staff nurse scale would earn 39 per cent more than a nurse at the top of the NHS England B and 5 scale.

“More broadly, OECD nursing remuneration data show that, in purchasing power parity terms, Irish nursing pay (including allowances and premium payments) between 2007 and 2017 was consistently on a par with Australia and higher than New Zealand, Canada and the UK,” notes the spending review.

It also maintains that 82 per cent of all nurses and midwives are on basic salaries of more than €40,000 exclusive of allowances or premium payments.

Stop using facts

Twenty Grand · 09-01-2019 1:42pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Stop using facts

So our nurses are just slightly less f*cked over than UK nurses.
That's great to hear.

Also conditions in the US and Australia are far and away better than here, so you're still not comparing like for like.

[Deleted User] · 09-01-2019 1:50pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

How does the cost of living compare?
How does the take home pay compare?
How does the euro/pound per hour worked compare?

In London it’s hard to get anywhere affordable to live. Starting salary is around £25,000 for newly qualified rising to a maximum of £50,000 at top level.

Green&Red · 09-01-2019 2:20pm

blanch152 wrote: »

They are well-paid compared to most European countries.

https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/health-at-a-glance-2015/remuneration-of-nurses_health_glance-2015-29-en#page2

This data shows that Irish nurses are the third-highest paid in the world behind Luxembourg and the US (figure 5.21).

The previous figure is interesting (figure 5.20). Nurses fare less well in Ireland if you express their pay relative to average wage. It is actually a status issue for nurses in Ireland about how their wages compares to the average person in Ireland, rather than how their wage compares internationally.

I wouldn’t agree it’s a status issue. They are being compared to average wages but that affects average costs also and ur ability to afford these things. It’s overly simplistic to say they’re better paid than other nurses without taking in the economy as a whole. UK salaries are well below ROI salaries

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:26pm

lilblackdress wrote: »

The reason that complaints of conditions are being tied into a pay rise is we cannot keep nursing staff in Ireland due to crap pay. Nurses go off elsewhere to earn more and cannot be blamed for that... that means less nurses which in turn means worse conditions and poorer care which leads to even less nurses.

In my opinion, people who think nurses don't deserve more either don't know how much they actually come out with a month for the work they put in or they have never had to sit and watch what a nurse actually has to do.... many people walk up to a nurses station and assume nurses are sitting doing nothing and unfortunately that is generally so far from the truth. The amount of documentation alone and lack of time to adequately fill it in is extremely difficult.

Nurses are the only healthcare professional that is present 24/7. (13 hour shifts, 7 night shifts in a row, 1 free day worked a month etc). Yes doctors are on call in acute hospitals and care assistants who are amazing are being pulled away from patient care to do other tasks... nurses are the ones that tie the rest of the healthcare teams plans together to make their own plans. A typical day for a nurse 15 years ago was filled moreso with patient care than what it is now..... now it's scrimping for staff, trying to manage everyone in an effective and safe way and watching your nursing pin as best you can knowing that any day you walk in you could lose it due to lack of patient safety because of staff shortages and an increase in documentation.

Morale is low, No matter what they do they can never do enough. Compassion fatigue is rife and nurses need a break and support from those they always strive to do their best for.... the public

Thanks Liam doran

Sycamore Tree · 09-01-2019 2:26pm

I am convinced we are heading towards a sharp global recession so the govt need to be careful.

I would welcome teachers wages being cut and diverted to nurses. Teachers are overpaid and have it very soft.

We need a new round of benchmarking which is based on real world data to show how overpaid many of our public servants are. The previous benchmarking was simply a FF vote buyer.

NSAman · 09-01-2019 2:29pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Yep, and that's why they're striking.

Understaffed and not able to give the correct level of care.

Paid so little that no one wants to do the job. Nurses leaving in droves. African and asian nurses with questionable credentials and poor language skills who probably can't get work in a higher paying country coming in.

There's hardly a ward in the country thats fully staffed. Plenty of closed wards because they don't have the nurses to run them.

BS... they didn’t give a damn.... and my mother WAS a nurse!!

There are some great nurses out there. But please stop with this nurses are angels crap. There are some ignorant lazy self opinionated nurses out there also.

The HSE is a shambles and is not helped by staff that dont care. If you think this is an isolated incident, it isnt.

Nurses need to suck it up and if you dont like your job leave and do something else.

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:36pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They can't get staff cause the wages are too low, far better money in England for example. Strugglign to bring in foreign staff (a backbone of the sector) for the same reason, many are going to Australia or America where possible cause the money is better.

There is a recruitment drive, and loads of positions available, but if your conditions aren't attactive you will struggle to fill the positions.

As for Union greed... lol. Nurses are woefully underpaid based on time to qualification, responsibilities and working hours. Nursing is an undervalued public service role.

Wages for the public sector in England are far lower than here across the board and being paid in pounds is looking like a bum deal more by the day

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:40pm

Jude13 wrote: »

Again with PS jobs don't get hoodwinked by salary headlines, you need to compare the full package, pension contributions, leave, job security etc. It's all tosh.

Indeed, the same sh1te talk re the guards starting off a while back, 23k, complete crap, that's the basic out of templemore but basic for guards tells you zilch, no guard is on less than 33 k and aren't long on that.

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:41pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

How much do you think someone should be paid to look after you, wash and dress you, lift you up, maybe wipe your own h*le if you can't do that?

Nurses don't wipe anyone and haven't in years

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:42pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My wife is on the top scale, has premium payments (pediatrics) and isn't bringing home 57k.

Neat trick of the public sector is to only ever report after tax as pay, hardly anyone is on 55k NET

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:45pm

Green&Red wrote: »

I wouldn’t agree they are well paid, a nurse with five years experience is on about €38k. Throw in a shift bonus and it still wouldn’t clear €40k. For someone with a degree and the amount of s**t they have to put up with it’s not very well paid at all.

Having said that the job hasn’t changed since they decided to go into nursing. The argument that they don’t get as well paid as the other professions in hospitals is invalid too, they knew that going into it. They’re claiming it’s about patient welfare but them on more pay isn’t going to make more of them, it’s be the exact same care they’re delivering

It’s impossible to see how the government can give in, Brexit is on our doorstep, bend here and all the pay agreements are out the window, teachers, civil servants, guards will all be out on strike

Who hasn't a "degree" today?

Mad_maxx · 09-01-2019 2:47pm

blanch152 wrote: »

They are well-paid compared to most European countries.

https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/health-at-a-glance-2015/remuneration-of-nurses_health_glance-2015-29-en#page2

This data shows that Irish nurses are the third-highest paid in the world behind Luxembourg and the US (figure 5.21).

The previous figure is interesting (figure 5.20). Nurses fare less well in Ireland if you express their pay relative to average wage. It is actually a status issue for nurses in Ireland about how their wages compares to the average person in Ireland, rather than how their wage compares internationally.

To most Irish people, the word nurse illicits the same emotional reaction as fluffy kittens, they could demand 10k per week and a majority would instinctively support them

2011abc · 09-01-2019 2:55pm

Can there be even an iota of doubt that loads of these posts come from FG HQ at this stage ?! Hope the nurses get what they want ( and I’d far sooner see my tax € go into hospitals and nurses salaries than landlords pockets , direct provision providers , bankers, Quango board members etc

MrMusician18 · 09-01-2019 3:19pm

2011abc wrote: »

Can there be even an iota of doubt that loads of these posts come from FG HQ at this stage ?! Hope the nurses get what they want ( and I’d far sooner see my tax € go into hospitals and nurses salaries than landlords pockets , direct provision providers , bankers, Quango board members etc

After my experience in A and E over Christmas, nurses should not get a pay increase since they do not deserve one.

uch · 09-01-2019 3:35pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Who hasn't a "degree" today?

Me

[Deleted User] · 09-01-2019 3:37pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Who hasn't a "degree" today?

Me

Twenty Grand · 09-01-2019 4:14pm

NSAman wrote: »

BS... they didn’t give a damn.... and my mother WAS a nurse!!

There are some great nurses out there. But please stop with this nurses are angels crap. There are some ignorant lazy self opinionated nurses out there also.

The HSE is a shambles and is not helped by staff that dont care. If you think this is an isolated incident, it isnt.

Nurses need to suck it up and if you dont like your job leave and do something else.

Yes, most nurses don't care. That's why they're busting themselves daily in overcrowded, understaffed wards.

You do realise the problem is that nurses ARE packing up and moving, and thats the problem?

Wheeliebin30 · 09-01-2019 4:17pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Yes, most nurses don't care. That's why they're busting themselves daily in overcrowded, understaffed wards.

You do realise the problem is that nurses ARE packing up and moving, and thats the problem?

But we only heard today they aren’t and that turnover is 6% which is very low.

I’m not believing this narrative been peddled by the unions.

hawkelady · 09-01-2019 4:19pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nurses don't wipe anyone and haven't in years

Well that’s BS because I only recently witnessed two nurses clean up blood from an elderly lady who bled all over the bed , it was horrific to witness but there you have it !! Nurses do clean up.

Mitch Connor · 09-01-2019 4:22pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

After my experience in A and E over Christmas, nurses should not get a pay increase since they do not deserve one.

What was your issue with the nurses?

Twenty Grand · 09-01-2019 4:25pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But we only heard today they aren’t and that turnover is 6% which is very low.

I’m not believing this narrative been peddled by the unions.

Well turnover is when you replace a leaving staff member with a new one.

If someone leaves and isn't replaced, is it turnover?

ELM327 · 09-01-2019 4:28pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Well turnover is when you replace a leaving staff member with a new one.

If someone leaves and isn't replaced, is it turnover?

That's attrition, which is worse than turnover for a business unless it's intended attrition as gradual cost cutting/downsizing.

mariaalice · 09-01-2019 4:35pm

If its such a marvellous job how come there are always shortages of nurses and not just in Ireland. I do think there is an element of chancing there arm on this one pay increases wont improve working conditions. They pay is alright not fantastic but not dreadful either.

The younger generation are a lot more confident and savey and won't put up with what former generations put up with and they have a lot more options if it dose not suit them.

mariaalice · 09-01-2019 4:38pm

Also the HSE cant concede on this one because of the follow on clams from other groups that are watching this from the wings.

MrMusician18 · 09-01-2019 4:38pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What was your issue with the nurses?

Extremely poor attitude. Urgently required medication not provided until after 7.5hrs after first presenting and after several times of asking and being rudely dismissed. I'd probably be waiting there still for medication if I didn't find the one nurse there that gave a ****.

Three patients, one with serious health complications was left all night without medication, requested several times of course.

That's not too mention the bickering between the nurses and junior doctors in front of the patients.

You could of course put this down to understaffing, and that is an issue. But the attitude of some of the nurses forgetting that they were dealing with very sick people, phoning it in, certainly made me question the caring narrative the unions paint. And that has nothing to do with pay or conditions. A lot of them really couldn't care less about you if they tried.

TheRiverman · 09-01-2019 5:00pm

The working conditions is one the biggest problems here.The amount of responsibility loaded on nurses is ridiculous.If a health care worker on the ward with a nurse makes a mistake,the nurse is responsible.Also health care workers have way less responsibilities here than in other countries.That has to change.

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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