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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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    #182
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Nurses' pay and conditions should be improved all round.


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    #183
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Threads about nurses are fascinating on boards always brings out the, misogynists, those irrational dislike of anyone with a public service type job, those who are irritated by any regard for nurses etc., and very few who acutely know what they are talking about.

    There is spin from the unions but that is the nature of unions, and it has very little to do with work of the front line staff.


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    #184
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Threads about nurses are fascinating on boards always brings out the, misogynists, those irrational dislike of anyone with a public service type job, those who are irritated by any regard for nurses etc., and very few who acutely know what they are talking about.

    Bit sexist there? I haven't seen any anti-woman remarks or criticism. Are you equating any criticism of nurses as criticism of women?


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    #185
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Amirani wrote: »
    Bit sexist there? I haven't seen any anti-woman remarks or criticism. Are you equating any criticism of nurses as criticism of women?

    Its not just this thread.


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    #186
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?


    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.

    The long days were brought in by the health boards in the 1980s as a cost saving. This is the kind of bizarre responses on boards basically jealously of someone one working their hours over 3 days instead of 5.


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    #187
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Amirani wrote: »
    Bit sexist there? I haven't seen any anti-woman remarks or criticism. Are you equating any criticism of nurses as criticism of women?

    Maybe read over the whole thread. There was one sexist comment .. along the lines of cause the majority of nurses are women they can’t organize themselves unlike the pna where they are mainly men !


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    #188
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    welltodo wrote: »
    hopefully

    but the way varadker is i'd say he'll cut their pay so they have to go to australia and then he'll bring in his own kind

    His own kind? If you mean doctors that would be great but we don't want any more politicians thanks.


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    #189
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Amirani wrote: »
    Bit sexist there? I haven't seen any anti-woman remarks or criticism. Are you equating any criticism of nurses as criticism of women?

    Read the thread properly.
    They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.

    If this is not a misogynistic generalisation, then what is ?


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    #190
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Hire enough nurses to do the 3 x 8 hr shifts Mon to Thurs and 2×12 hr shifts fri to Sun. Lower cost per hour than overtime but higher cost 're pensions etc. A month of each shift so a month of Mon to Thurs earlies, days or late shifts and a month of Fri to Sun early or late shifts. Prob won't be done as unions won't want the reduced pay if overtime is reduced.


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    #191
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Read the thread properly.



    If this is not a misogynistic generalisation, then what is ?

    Hadn't seen that. Apologies to mariaalice, my mistake!


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    #192
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Hire enough nurses to do the 3 x 8 hr shifts Mon to Thurs and 2×12 hr shifts fri to Sun. Lower cost per hour than overtime but higher cost 're pensions etc. A month of each shift so a month of Mon to Thurs earlies, days or late shifts and a month of Fri to Sun early or late shifts. Prob won't be done as unions won't want the reduced pay if overtime is reduced.

    It does not work like that the staff have to be there one way or the other nomatte how its done allowances are not overtime that is what you are mixing up.

    A well know political talk show host was baldering on that Scans ect should be done on a 24 hour bases and the staff made work shifts the person he was interviewing pointed out that it would require triple the staff i.e. 3 x 8 hour shifts but the interviewer keep saying no just make the current staff work shifts he just could not see his mistake.


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    #193
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    We all think of the hard working nurses in the A and E who deserve to be paid well. But like all public service jobs there is a good share of handy numbers such as taking blood samples, assisting the specialist at clinic etc where they are not under pressure


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    #194
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Emme wrote: »
    His own kind? If you mean doctors that would be great but we don't want any more politicians thanks.

    This has to be a record for boards the racists managed to work their agenda in to a thread about nurses pay.


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    #195
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    professore wrote: »
    The reality is we pay one of the highest costs per capita for quite frankly a poor health service. Seeing my mother in excruciating pain for 3 years waiting for a hip replacement was ample evidence of that. Now I'm not blaming nurses for that but a root and branch reform of the health service is needed. It's not a bottomless pit.

    Can have all the root and branch review we want. There are some simple problems with simple solutions about the bloated management structure in the HSE and the wasted salaries, but it's nigh on impossible to let go, fire or cut any of this waste due to unions or historical agreements and stuff.

    Some big win solutions have been obvious to probably the last 2-3 governments. But reality is there is probably little they can do considering how our political system works and the pressures on TD's and governments for constant re-election.

    No government is going to move forward with dismantling the bloat in the HSE, especially considering so many of the stakeholders were probably supporters of these groups historically.


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    #196
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It does not work like that the staff have to be there one way or the other nomatte how its done allowances are not overtime that is what you are mixing up.

    A well know political talk show host was baldering on that Scans ect should be done on a 24 hour bases and the staff made work shifts the person he was interviewing pointed out that it would require triple the staff i.e. 3 x 8 hour shifts but the interviewer keep saying no just make the current staff work shifts he just could not see his mistake.

    As I said hire more nurses. If they are doing more hours than the standard week they are getting overtime or allowances for it. There are so many hours in the week, they all have to be covered so more nurses on a standard number of hours makes sense, particularly in a&e etc


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    #197
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Mooooo wrote: »
    As I said hire more nurses. If they are doing more hours than the standard week they are getting overtime or allowances for it. There are so many hours in the week, they all have to be covered so more nurses on a standard number of hours makes sense, particularly in a&e etc

    If only people only got sick 9 to 5 it just dose not work the way you think.


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    #198
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,663 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Why one earth would you want to be a nurse in this country? The odds are stacked against you from the off, between low wages, extremely high levels of stress and responsibility, working shifts and long hours. Internal politics and trying to contact the highers-up to make your case. It seems pure sadism to me- if you really want to do it and its your calling, head off to Dubai or even Britain where conditions are much better.

    I can safely say im earning at least twice the average nurse wage and I don't have a fraction of their stress. There are lots of jobs out there where you can clock in, do your job and not feel like a shell when you clock out. Seriously, its a mess in the nursing profession, find a new career.


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    #199
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    mariaalice wrote: »
    If only people only got sick 9 to 5 it just dose not work the way you think.

    You'd think someone would tell people it's not a 9-5 job before they apply. Because I am shocked to find this out.


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    #200
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    wat24 wrote: »
    The average salary really are averages due to the high earners who are usually in management. I’m 6 years qualified and on 36,000. Most of the nurses working with me are on around the same. There’s far too many bed managers and nurse managers working admin roles that aren’t hands on frontline care. That’s where the money is going

    If this is the case, why aren't nurses striking for structural change.

    Every time I'm in a hospital I see nurses doing jobs I think I would find very hard to do. Mentally and physically it must be very difficult. But, if they are on an average of 57K with 3k more due on agreed rises as part of the current deal before the end of 2020, I find it hard to argue for a pay rise now.

    The average indicates the money is in the system. It just shows the structure is messed up.


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    #201
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    Why one earth would you want to be a nurse in this country? The odds are stacked against you from the off, between low wages, extremely high levels of stress and responsibility, working shifts and long hours. Internal politics and trying to contact the highers-up to make your case. It seems pure sadism to me- if you really want to do it and its your calling, head off to Dubai or even Britain where conditions are much better.

    I can safely say im earning at least twice the average nurse wage and I don't have a fraction of their stress. There are lots of jobs out there where you can clock in, do your job and not feel like a shell when you clock out. Seriously, its a mess in the nursing profession, find a new career.

    Finding a new career doesn't solve the problems for nurses staying within the HSE.It only solves the problem for the person(s) who leave or who decide not to go into nursing at all.Running away from this broken system is not going to fix it.We need our nurses happy and stress free at their job.


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    #202
    hurler32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    What % of the health budget goes on wages ??
    What % of the Dutch or German health budget goes on wages ?

    That’ll explain why we have a disaster of a set up


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    #203
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Mooooo wrote: »
    As I said hire more nurses. If they are doing more hours than the standard week they are getting overtime or allowances for it. There are so many hours in the week, they all have to be covered so more nurses on a standard number of hours makes sense, particularly in a&e etc

    The problem is there isn't enough nurses. Plenty of positions open but no one's applying because the conditions and pay is sh*t


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    #204
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    The problem is there isn't enough nurses. Plenty of positions open but no one's applying because the conditions and pay is sh*t

    Is it not the case that Irish Nurses are amongst some of the best paid in Europe?


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    #205
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    The problem is there isn't enough nurses. Plenty of positions open but no one's applying because the conditions and pay is sh*t

    We have more nurses per capita than most countries.


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    #206
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Is it not the case that Irish Nurses are amongst some of the best paid in Europe?

    It is but don’t underestimate how powerful the unions are and their media buddies.


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    #207
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,200 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Edgware wrote: »
    We all think of the hard working nurses in the A and E who deserve to be paid well. But like all public service jobs there is a good share of handy numbers such as taking blood samples, assisting the specialist at clinic etc where they are not under pressure

    When was the last time you were in A and E?

    You might have a different opinion if you were in there recently.


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    #208
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,663 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Finding a new career doesn't solve the problems for nurses staying within the HSE.It only solves the problem for the person(s) who leave or who decide not to go into nursing at all.Running away from this broken system is not going to fix it.We need our nurses happy and stress free at their job.

    But that clearly doesn't seem to be on the cards anytime soon, go back years and nurses were stretched to breaking point dealing with people on trollies, wages etc, they always had it bad. My point is if you want to be a nurse, it simply isn't worth hanging around the potentially years or decades it may take to fix this broken system. Life is too short for that misery when there are other less stressful jobs around.


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    #209
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    The problem is there isn't enough nurses. Plenty of positions open but no one's applying because the conditions and pay is sh*t
    Tell me how wrote: »
    Is it not the case that Irish Nurses are amongst some of the best paid in Europe?
    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    It is but don’t underestimate how powerful the unions are and their media buddies.

    Not disrespecting your input Wheeliebin30 but I am interested in someone who maybe thinks Nurses deserve a payrise answering this.


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    #210
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Is it not the case that Irish Nurses are amongst some of the best paid in Europe?

    And as I said in previous post:

    Are the conditions the same?
    Is the cost of living the same?
    Is the euro per hour worked the same?
    Is the role and responsibility and the same?
    How do the wages average over the working life or a nurse?

    There's no point saying "they're the best paid" when every contributing factor that determines pay is different.


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    #211
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    When was the last time you were in A and E?

    You might have a different opinion if you were in there recently.

    Yeah but every nurse is not working in A&E.

    In any walk of life and in any and every job there are going to be some who take it easy. My father spent time in hospital last year and he told me that on Sunday one of the nurses on the ward used to disappear to watch the GAA matches. She left the 12 bed ward to a single nurse and dropped back for a walkthrough between the games

    The second nurse deserves to be well paid, the first, not so much.


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