Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Why wouldn't you buy an Alfa Romeo? (keep it civilized)

13567

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭MTBD


    grogi wrote: »
    What I see is an advertised value... Time will show if it will sell :)

    I'm sure if they weren't selling then they would be advertised at lower prices. There would at least be one of two priced very low. Dealers aren't that patient. Even for arguments sake that they did have to cut the price by £3k to sell it they would still be around the same price as the BMWs. This is not in any way astronomical resale value.

    The 172 Kia Stinger GT on done deal for €30k less than it's retail price is astronomical depreciation though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭NoBread


    MTBD wrote: »
    Well first of all that is €83 a month and more likely to be a lot less than that in reality. Buyers get lower spec in the BMW/Audi/Merc for the same money on day 1. I specified a BMW 330i to the same level as the Giulia Veloce in late 2017. By the time you had the BMW up to the same spec it was €67k vs €57k for the more powerful, lighter, faster, better riding and handling Giulia. Why would you pay €10k extra just to drive a BMW when you could have the Alfa? Lexus is similarly well specified but they can't seem to translate that into sales either.

    This is another highlight of the narrow-mindedness of buyers. You get the "Oh - Lexus is boring" type crap instead, once people can't use the reliability stick. But A4's are even more boring but you aren't allowed to say that.
    People think they know about handling, but in reality don't. Their decision is based on badge first and foremost, and how they like the look and feel of the controls after that, and there's no convincing them otherwise.
    Also once a car or brand gets the name for being a good handling car by the Top Gear gang, then all subsequent models won't shake that image in general buyers minds, despite the reality of the situation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 Tom Hardly


    The vast majority of posts on this thread are the usual tripe spoken by those who’d never really consider buying one, and who will always flock to the BMW/VW range to impress their shallow neighbors.

    Reliability? Nope, Dad has one from new and no problems. See that’s real experience, not just rubbish spouted online.

    Depreciation? Alfa are already keen to know when he wants to get rid as they reckon they’ll have plenty of interest in his Veloce after three years. Also the GMFV for those on PCP is pretty decent (I checked the numbers).

    Dealers? I agree somewhat on this that they need to improve, but having experienced buying three cars from a well known dublin dealership, nothing but positives to say about them.

    Some folk want expensive coffee and to be waited on hand and foot in a dealership.

    I go there to buy a car. I go to a cafe for a coffee.

    Sometimes it’s nice to be different and not drive the same thing everyone else has - I.e BMW diesel or Volkswagen group rubbish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    MTBD wrote: »
    Lexus is similarly well specified but they can't seem to translate that into sales either.

    Lack of diesel options (that weren't awful like the IS220D) probably cost them a lot of market share in the last 10 years but they're well placed to capitalise on the shift away from diesel. Motoring press seems to hype up German competitors to Lexus models also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Alfa along with Fiat and Lancia fecked themselves up years ago with poor reliability,quality and rust issues!
    That has been the reputation ever since!
    On the whole Irish market v other markets, Audi, Bmw and VW have been killing Alfa Romeo in every market its not just us "Snobby" Irish!


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    One thing I have never heard an Alfa owner say:

    "I'd never own another Alfa again."

    Things I have heard former Alfa owners say:

    "I wish I still had my XYZ...."


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭banana_bear


    Tom Hardly wrote: »
    Reliability? Nope, Dad has one from new and no problems. See that’s real experience, not just rubbish spouted online.


    One car that was particularly reliable or unreliable (over what mileage and period of time?) is an anecdote. Edit: I just see he had it less than 3 years. I'm not going to comment further on that.

    Taking one example as proof of (un)reliability for a car type or brand is the very definition of "rubbish spouted online". That's like saying "my mom smoked and she lived to be 90" is a proof that smoking isn't unhealthy.

    I'm not commenting at all about Alfas being reliable, I merely question your "logic".


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭NoBread


    One car that was particularly reliable or unreliable (over what mileage and period of time?) is an anecdote. Edit: I just see he had it less than 3 years. I'm not going to comment further on that.

    Taking one example as proof of (un)reliability for a car type or brand is the very definition of "rubbish spouted online". That's like saying "my mom smoked and she lived to be 90" is a proof that smoking isn't unhealthy.

    I'm not commenting at all about Alfas being reliable, I merely question your "logic".
    You should also question the logic then of the other poster who had 1 reliable BMW and 1 Toyota that they referred to as "unreliable" despite it only having a stuck caliper... Just for balance like!


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭suchafunkymonke


    I find there is always someone who says "I'd never have one of those <insert car brand>'s. They all have poor engines/electrics/build quality/etc." Usually they're repeating what someone said to them once who knew someone who had a neighbour that might have had some issue 20 years ago.

    My personal reason for not owning an alfa is the camel-toe front grill which means the number plate has to be off-centre. It looks wrong and I can't get over that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Eoinbmw wrote: »
    Alfa along with Fiat and Lancia fecked themselves up years ago with poor reliability,quality and rust issues!
    That has been the reputation ever since!

    The rust stuff was back in the 70s. It did massive damage to Lancia, and the brand hasn't sold in any numbers since the 80s as a result.

    Fiat and Alfa had arguably their most successful years in the mid 90s to mid 00s. The 156 and 147 were very successful Alfas, I think they were the most successful, certainly in the Irish market.


    Alfa and Fiat have lost their way since the mid 2000s, they didn't develop their product enough, and were kept going by the Panda/500 platform. Fiat is still trying to flog the Punto for example, so I would lay the blame at the management agenda that was in operation during the 2000s for their poor market share today.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,136 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    LillySV wrote: »
    I’m telling you I’ve spent nothing on my Bmw, your saying you’ve spent little on your Alfa’s...

    Did you buy it new?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    This is actually making for a very interesting reading - I have a few comments, but will keep them for myself for now, I'd like to see if there are more thoughts put forward first :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    One thing I have never heard an Alfa owner say:

    "I'd never own another Alfa again."

    Things I have heard former Alfa owners say:

    "I wish I still had my XYZ...."

    Never a truer word spoken.
    https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what-car-reliability-survey/n17810

    Reliability for executive cars aged one to four
    Rank Make and model Score
    1 Volvo V60 (2010-2018) 99.3%
    2 Vauxhall Insignia (2008-2017) 97.5%
    3 Alfa Romeo Giulia (2016-present) 96.9%
    4 BMW 3 Series (2012-present) 96.6%
    5 Mazda 6 (2013-present) 95.9%
    6 Skoda Superb petrol (2015-present) 95.2%
    7 Audi A3 Saloon (2013-present) 93.9%
    8 Audi A4 petrol (2015-present) 93.7%
    9 Skoda Superb diesel (2015-present) 93.2%
    10 Volkswagen Passat (2015-present) 92.9%
    11 Ford Mondeo (2014-present) 92.6%
    12 Audi A4 diesel (2015-present) 91.9%
    13 Jaguar XE (2015-present) 83.7%
    14 Mercedes-Benz C-Class (2014-present) 83.1%


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,740 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Eoinbmw wrote: »
    Alfa along with Fiat and Lancia fecked themselves up years ago with poor reliability,quality and rust issues!
    That has been the reputation ever since!
    On the whole Irish market v other markets, Audi, Bmw and VW have been killing Alfa Romeo in every market its not just us "Snobby" Irish!

    Evidence?

    If you're talking about rusty 70's and into 80's ones maybe. But I'll see you with rust pit Audi, W124 and 3-series from era too. The comparison is no longer valid.

    I'm more about the Alfa than slagging of M47 N47 M96 on this thread though.....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    One thing I have never heard an Alfa owner say:

    "I'd never own another Alfa again."

    Things I have heard former Alfa owners say:

    "I wish I still had my XYZ...."
    ZV Yoda wrote: »
    Never a truer word spoken. Case closed.

    Sorry to burst bubbles.

    I bought a brand new 159 TI 2.4l JTDM and would be the target market for the Giulia.

    It was a cracking car, and loved it one day, hated it the next. The problem I had, and why I'll never buy another Alfa is because the car came with two issues (that I remember).

    1. Severely wearing tyres, back tyres wore unevenly and were goosed after 5k km. These cost €330 a corner (actually €330 plus VAT one time with the main dealer)
    2. The windscreen wiper wouldn't clear the full windscreen, it left a gap right in the driver's view.

    Oh, there was a third. The car would veer to the left once I took my hand off the steering wheel.

    The first two issues later became known issues, and the veering to the left never really got fixed. The 19" OEM tyres were blamed by the main dealer.

    My current car has 20" wheels and will drive dead straight if I take my hands off the wheel, unless the camber takes it.

    These three issues destroyed my enjoyment of my first ever new car, and it wasn't a cheap option. And the Main dealer could not fix them, despite many visits. So, while a car can have issues, even known issues, but if you've no confidence in the main dealer then you'll not buy their cars.

    Issues one and two were fixed by TIAuto in Dublin, a very good and dedicated mechanic that lives and breathes Alfas. Alas, the closest I'll get to another Alfa is as I pass one on the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 jcdf


    The Giulia seems like a reasonable car to me. Though I have not seen one in person let alone driven it. I am judging it from only looking at pictures online. It is not ugly but perhaps too streamlined and curvaceous for my liking as most modern cars are.

    The Stelvio is just ugly.



    If I was buying a new car I might consider looking at a Giulia.


    I once owned an Alfa Romeo 146 and it was a fine car, I have nothing against the brand name. The last car I bought was a Nissan Qashqui a comfortable little car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Evidence?

    If you're talking about rusty 70's and into 80's ones maybe. But I'll see you with rust pit Audi, W124 and 3-series from era too. The comparison is no longer valid.

    I'm more about the Alfa than slagging of M47 N47 M96 on this thread though.....
    Its not my opinion just the general view from the motoring masses it still exists!
    For what its worth i have a soft spot for Fiats and have owned a few over the years including a mk1 punto gt and a mk2 punto hgt both served me well with no issues!
    I never did bite on an Alfa yet but id not say no to a nice 3l 166!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Evidence?

    If you're talking about rusty 70's and into 80's ones maybe. But I'll see you with rust pit Audi, W124 and 3-series from era too. The comparison is no longer valid.

    I'm more about the Alfa than slagging of M47 N47 M96 on this thread though.....
    Oh and i might have BMW in my user name but im in no way Brand loyal and have owned just about every manufacturer under the sun just happened to be in a BMW at the time of registering!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I owned and driven a few Alfas (164, 146, 156) and they are lovely to drive and usually good looking. However they are insanely expensive in Ireland, there isn't much choice in used ones and new ones are too expensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    JoeA3 wrote: »
    Utter nonsense.

    The sooner people spell out that user names initials, and ignore the better.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Sorry to burst bubbles.

    I bought a brand new 159 TI 2.4l JTDM and would be the target market for the Giulia.

    It was a cracking car, and loved it one day, hated it the next. The problem I had, and why I'll never buy another Alfa is because the car came with two issues (that I remember).

    1. Severely wearing tyres, back tyres wore unevenly and were goosed after 5k km. These cost €330 a corner (actually €330 plus VAT one time with the main dealer)
    2. The windscreen wiper wouldn't clear the full windscreen, it left a gap right in the driver's view.

    Oh, there was a third. The car would veer to the left once I took my hand off the steering wheel.

    The first two issues later became known issues, and the veering to the left never really got fixed. The 19" OEM tyres were blamed by the main dealer.

    My current car has 20" wheels and will drive dead straight if I take my hands off the wheel, unless the camber takes it.

    These three issues destroyed my enjoyment of my first ever new car, and it wasn't a cheap option. And the Main dealer could not fix them, despite many visits. So, while a car can have issues, even known issues, but if you've no confidence in the main dealer then you'll not buy their cars.

    Issues one and two were fixed by TIAuto in Dublin, a very good and dedicated mechanic that lives and breathes Alfas. Alas, the closest I'll get to another Alfa is as I pass one on the road.

    Not bursting any bubbles on my part :D

    10 years ago, I had new Nissan Almera. The timing chain stretched & left me stranded on the motorway. A few weeks later, a sensor failed & left me stranded again. That wouldn't put me off buying any Nissan ever again (assuming they brought out a car that I actually liked).

    Alfas are not perfect. Nor are Nissan, BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus... or any other car brand. Alfa are struggling because they're saddled with a poor reputation from 30 years ago. Hence their current low sales volumes (less than 100 new Alfas were registered in Ireland in 2018). Lack of sales means lower investment in marketing, finance & dealer network.

    I'd argue Alfa's biggest problem today is nothing to do with the cars themselves, but everything to do with marketing and business strategy. If you look at how VW turned Skoda around, they did it by:

    1. Improving the cars to be as good as / better than the competition
    2. Smart marketing / pricing / finance packages which enabled them to re-position the Skoda brand. This led to increased sales & everything that comes with that.

    Nowadays, you can't drive more than 5mins without passing a VW billboard or dealership. Turn on the telly & VW group ads are everywhere. Same with online / viral marketing. It's hard to believe now that back in the 80s, Skodas were often referred to as "skips on wheels". Not anymore (and rightly so).

    Alfa have already managed to improve the cars. The vast majority of Giulia and Stevio reviews are positive. The industry considers them very good cars. They perform very well in reliability surveys. The problem is that the wider buying public are not convinced. This thread confirms that. Alfa need to address that public perception, or they'll remain (at best) a niche brand for people who are willing to drive something different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    ZV Yoda wrote: »

    Alfa have already managed to improve the cars. The vast majority of Giulia and Stevio reviews are positive. The industry considers them very good cars. They perform very well in reliability surveys. The problem is that the wider buying public are not convinced. This thread confirms that. Alfa need to address that public perception, or they'll remain (at best) a niche brand for people who are willing to drive something different.

    Remember, I paid for one. A new one, so I was willing to give them a chance. But, the 156 was their last chance at being a mainstream player. It got a huge amount of publicity, but from the feedback the car let them down from a reliability point of view. Maybe that's only perception, but I doubt it. Either way the lovely 159 tanked and the Giulla doesn't appear to be doing near enough sales. On that basis, I think they're going to go the same way as SAAB (maybe it's me, I owned a 2.0t 9-3 prior to the 159) - now, I DO miss that sometimes :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Remember, I paid for one. A new one, so I was willing to give them a chance. But, the 156 was their last chance at being a mainstream player. It got a huge amount of publicity, but from the feedback the car let them down from a reliability point of view. Maybe that's only perception, but I doubt it. Either way the lovely 159 tanked and the Giulla doesn't appear to be doing near enough sales. On that basis, I think they're going to go the same way as SAAB (maybe it's me, I owned a 2.0t 9-3 prior to the 159) - now, I DO miss that sometimes :)

    Yip, there's a lot of similarities between Saab & Alfa. Maybe Alfa have left it too late. Be a real shame to see them go. The Giulia is the best thing they've done in a long time. I'm not a fan of SUVs, so not really keen on the Stelvio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭NoBread


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Remember, I paid for one. A new one, so I was willing to give them a chance. But, the 156 was their last chance at being a mainstream player. It got a huge amount of publicity, but from the feedback the car let them down from a reliability point of view. Maybe that's only perception, but I doubt it. Either way the lovely 159 tanked and the Giulla doesn't appear to be doing near enough sales. On that basis, I think they're going to go the same way as SAAB (maybe it's me, I owned a 2.0t 9-3 prior to the 159) - now, I DO miss that sometimes :)

    Funny you mention the 9-3, (which had the Fiat engine - just like the Alfa!), but I had a brand new hired one once back in the day and it was much less well bolted together than the 159. I was shocked. I liked them before that. GM destroyed them good and proper. Things like the window switches rattling around in the housings when you went to operate them etc. Really terrible.
    The previous 9-5 was much better, and the old 900 and 9000i were fantastic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    The rust stuff was back in the 70s. It did massive damage to Lancia, and the brand hasn't sold in any numbers since the 80s as a result.

    Fiat and Alfa had arguably their most successful years in the mid 90s to mid 00s. The 156 and 147 were very successful Alfas, I think they were the most successful, certainly in the Irish market.


    Alfa and Fiat have lost their way since the mid 2000s, they didn't develop their product enough, and were kept going by the Panda/500 platform. Fiat is still trying to flog the Punto for example, so I would lay the blame at the management agenda that was in operation during the 2000s for their poor market share today.

    There was a time when Fiat actually had close on 30% of the market in Ireland. In the early to mid 90's Fiat had a very decent spread of models, beginning with the Cinquecento, then the Punto, Bravo. Brava and Marea. All of these models sold strongly. When Fiat took over Alfa they had the 145/146/155 models to give Alfa a decent spread of sales. The 156 was obviously a best seller.
    Regardless of the view of the brand(s) this era was quite successful for Fiat.
    By the early 2000's no new models were on the horizon, not helped by the fact that Fiat moved it's operation to the UK, and only kept on a token 'staff' over here, whilst at the same time letting go staff who had vast experience with the Irish market.
    Dealerships, beginning with Sweeney and Forte (Fiat since the 1940's) simply had enough and decided to pull the plug. Many more established dealers followed with no replacements in site. Another reason why the network is in dis-array.
    The majority of people on this forum have little or no knowledge of Alfa Romeo pre Fiat. Apart from the Alfasud, they were always a low volume seller.
    When the road tax rate changed from cc to emissions in 2008, Fiat found (and Alfa) themselves with NO model that fitted into the lowest tax band. It was possible to tax a 5 series BMW cheaper than a 1.2 Punto. Even the 1.3 diesel multijet was cheaper to tax privately than commercial, so van sales with this engine also proved difficult. The recession of 2008 did not help either as Italy, like a lot of countries simply had no money to invest in new models. The Guilia is almost 10 years in the making !!
    No helped by the fact that Fiat themselves had let go one of the best Fleet salesman they ever had.... where did he go.. Hyundai !!
    What with the influx of said Hyundai, Kia etc the likes of Fiat were never going to recover.
    There was a time that you bought a car based on the simple fact that you 'wanted one', as in I want a BMW, or I want a Mercedes. People who bought Alfa Romeo simply wanted to be different, same as people who bought Lancia previously.
    Now it's all NCAP ratings, customer surveys, reliability studies... none of that mattered to a Alfa driver, they simply wanted one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    Some good arguments for and against buying an alfa the last model i drove was the 147and that was years ago seriously looked at 159 second hand and they certainly wer not cheap so left it ended up with a 3series that was very unreliable and the rust was chronic and i thought i was making the sensible choice


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    One thing I have never heard an Alfa owner say:

    "I'd never own another Alfa again."

    Things I have heard former Alfa owners say:

    "I wish I still had my XYZ...."

    Same applies to land rover owners, its mental in every way, the only difference seems to be LR heads will admit how much money the thing steals from them in repairs all the time.

    Theres definitely a proportion of alfa owners who deny to the ground that it spends a bit more time on a lift than most other cars. But its fine, people are allowed to love unreliable cars. Ferrari and Maserati would have shut up shop long ago if they didn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I've had a few Alfa's and now have a modest (fairly utilitarian) Land Rover. I'm fussy about servicing, oil, timing chains/belts and tend to look after my cars and that attitude has meant the cars served me well and didn't cost me much. My Alfa GTV was a thing of beauty and bucked the aesthetic trends, small things like the door handles, the light clusters, the general design and look of the Italian cars attracted them to me. I found the driving experience second to none.

    I still never went Audi/BMW/Corrolla/Rover mini/entry level Merc/beige mainstream even pre-kids when I could afford it :) Although, I did go through a Golf GTI and Focus ST phase.

    Some people see the German 2 litre diesel as a sign of "I've arrived" I see it as "I've succumbed" and toddle in to work in an ancient Clio sport or on the bike much to the horror of my contemporaries in their grey, dull 5 series.

    I may dabble in something 80's and interesting when the kids are older, but I'm not as car reliant as a lot of people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    John_Rambo wrote: »

    Some people see the German 2 litre diesel as a sign of "I've arrived" I see it as "I've succumbed" and toddle in to work in an ancient Clio sport or on the bike much to the horror of my contemporaries in their grey, dull 5 series.

    Gawd, the reverse snobbery is just as bad.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Decpeciation is phenomenal on them.


Advertisement