6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

troyzer · 06-02-2019 9:11am

bilston wrote: »

Bollox.

Best has been excellent for Ulster and was excellent against NZ.

I didn't think he was particularly poor against England anyway.

Actually I don't even know where this has come from that all of a sudden on the back of one game that many people want him dropped or phased out or whatever.

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

Paul Smeenus · 06-02-2019 9:36am

troyzer wrote: »

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

The first Racing game? It's now the 6th of February and you are harking back to mid-October to reference poor performances? Okay. Well, we've seen from Rob K that if Joe doesn't think you're up to it, you get dropped. Let's see what happens.

Former Former · 06-02-2019 10:33am

Best was awful against England. Nothing in the loose, no sign of on-field leadership and Keith Wood would have been embarrassed by that crooked throw.

And still Cronin only came on with ten minutes to go. That tells you everything you need to know. It would be possibly the biggest selection surprise of Joe's reign if Best is dropped.

wittycynic · 06-02-2019 10:43am

troyzer wrote: »

I agree he was great against NZ. But he was poor against Argentina and awful in that first Racing game. He wasn't the standout poor performer on Saturday but he had only one carry, did nothing at the breakdown and cocked up a crucial lineout. It was a very, very subpar performance. He also didn't manage Garcès at all and was non-existent when big leadership was needed to turn the game around.

But he's still capable of having excellent games like Scarlets and New Zealand. That's what inconsistent means.

I've been saying since he came back to Ulster near the start of the season that he's looked very hit and miss.

I don't think anyone has really rated, or should rate, Best's management of referees. He has never been strong in that regard and generally fails to engage them often enough, or strongly enough.

With that said, I didn't disagree with him being handed the captaincy when he was. He was one of the few senior guaranteed starters in the team, that was regularly fit, at the time.

I don't think there being questions over his place in the team is new either. He is no longer putting in the quality of performance he regularly did club and Country, and this has been evident for a time. The throwing has always been a little shaky but he more than made up for it in contribution elsewhere, particularly being a nuisance at breakdown time. Unfortunately, I don't think he is getting through the shift he once did, at the level he once did, throughout the field anymore. In fairness, the guy is 36 and will be 37 in August. The list of people who have maintained their position as a top international performer at that age is very short, and sadly I don't think Best is on it.

I would tend to the view that Scannel is now our best option.

Henry Ford III · 06-02-2019 11:21am

I've a very bad feeling about this game. Ireland will presumably improve but Scotland at home are no walkover.

p.s. It won't be a wake up call/exactly what we needed btw.

thomond2006 · 06-02-2019 11:32am

I was more worried about this game prior to Saturday. It will take quite a turnaround, considering the injuries, to win. Ringrose played very well on Saturday.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 11:52am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was more worried about this game prior to Saturday. It will take quite a turnaround, considering the injuries, to win. Ringrose played very well on Saturday.

Scotland's injury list is arguably worse. It's probably one of the most unknown games we've gone into in a while, nobody knows what this Scotland side are going to be like, and we don't know how we're going to perform either with the injuries.

06-02-2019 11:55am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Scotland's injury list is arguably worse. It's probably one of the most unknown games we've gone into in a while, nobody knows what this Scotland side are going to be like, and we don't know how we're going to perform either with the injuries.

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

troyzer · 06-02-2019 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

Barclay, Watson, Brown, Welsh, McGuigan among others.

They're missing a lot of players that are either starters or regularly fighting for bench space.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 12:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can you elaborate on Scotland's injury profile?

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

stephen_n · 06-02-2019 12:23pm

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Credit in the bank? So he plays until he runs out of credit?

If he's not good enough to play and some young whipper snapper is better than he goes to the bench. Look at what happened to bernard brogan in last year's all Ireland final. He didn't get on the pitch and I would say he had plenty of so called credit.

The problem is no young whipersnapper is better than him yet. There is no one screaming for inclusion. Scannel is the next best but isn’t really putting in better performances than best this season. Joe seems to see Cronin as an impact player, not a starter.

thebaz · 06-02-2019 12:30pm

stephen_n wrote: »

The problem is no young whipersnapper is better than him yet. There is no one screaming for inclusion. Scannel is the next best but isn’t really putting in better performances than best this season. Joe seems to see Cronin as an impact player, not a starter.

Cronin is playing better than him right now , and should start with POM made captain , until or If Best form returns to be better than him.

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 12:37pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Who takes up the captaincy if Best doesn't play? All it takes is Scotland to target Johnny and get him riled up like Munster did, or pull a Sinckler and have POM lose the head.

Leavy was still declared unfit last week with his calf, but who do you bring him in for, VdF? POM?

POM has to start this weekend, we're already missing Toner so our lineout is going to be weak, and the other question is who calls it.

Fraser Brown will be a huge plus for Scotland if he starts, Jonny Gray if he starts will also be an absolute pain in the arse at the lineout.

There's not a hope that Brown starts ahead of McInally.
He's playing out of his boots at the moment.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 12:39pm

razorblunt wrote: »

There's not a hope that Brown starts ahead of McInally.
He's playing out of his boots at the moment.

Yeah McInally was outstanding last weekend, but you just never know what sort of selection Scotland will go with.

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 12:40pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

Scotland are milking that list somewhat.
All three centers have been miles off for a while now.
Carmichael is a kid, its like saying Ireland are missing Wycherley.

Watson, Barclay and Brown are their most noticeable absentees.
Jonny Gray is missing from that list but you could add that too.

DellyBelly · 06-02-2019 12:45pm

My team would be

15. Kearney if fit otherwise Larms
14. Earlsey
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Carbs - Give him some much needed game time
9. Murray
8. Conan - Seanie maybe for the final 25 mins
7. Van der Flier
6. O’Mahony
5. Roux
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Besty - wouldn't be to upset with Cronin
1. Healy

stephen_n · 06-02-2019 12:49pm

thebaz wrote: »

Cronin is playing better than him right now , and should start with POM made captain , until or If Best form returns to be better than him.

I’d say Cronin is playing better, but Joe has never seen him as a starter. Though he has improved, I think his scrummaging is what informs that choice. His work off the ball has improved a lot this year and so has his throwing. I just don’t see Joe starting him though.

Burkie1203 · 06-02-2019 1:13pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

My team would be

15. Kearney if fit otherwise Larms
14. Earlsey
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Carbs - Give him some much needed game time
9. Murray
8. Conan - Seanie maybe for the final 25 mins
7. Van der Flier
6. O’Mahony
5. Roux
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Besty - wouldn't be to upset with Cronin
1. Healy

Reckon we will see
Kearney Earls Henshaw Aki Stockdale Sexton Murray
Conan VDF POM Roux Ryan Furlong Best Healy

Bench - Kilcoyne Cronin Porter Dillane SOB Cooney Carbery Larmour

We wont make too many/any unforced changes

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 1:31pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah McInally was outstanding last weekend, but you just never know what sort of selection Scotland will go with.

Fair point.

Buer · 06-02-2019 2:05pm

razorblunt wrote: »

Scotland are milking that list somewhat.
All three centers have been miles off for a while now.
Carmichael is a kid, its like saying Ireland are missing Wycherley.

If Wycherley had already picked up a couple of test caps last year, yes. If fit, Carmichael would have a very strong chance of being in their 23 right now. Swinson is in the squad but is still getting back to speed after a bad injury and surgery. Sam Skinner played blindside and covered lock for them at the weekend with no second row on the bench.

mfceiling · 06-02-2019 2:11pm

Did somebody post that WP Nel is out as well?

Buer · 06-02-2019 2:14pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Did somebody post that WP Nel is out as well?

I don't believe he has been officially ruled out but it appears likely; they've already brought an additional tighthead into the squad.

slingerz · 06-02-2019 2:25pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

My team would be

15. Kearney if fit otherwise Larms
14. Earlsey
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Carbs - Give him some much needed game time
9. Murray
8. Conan - Seanie maybe for the final 25 mins
7. Van der Flier
6. O’Mahony
5. Roux
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Besty - wouldn't be to upset with Cronin
1. Healy

I'd go with

15. Kearney
14. Larmour
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Conan
07. Van Der Flier
06. O'Brien
05. Roux
04. Ryan
03. Furlong
02. Cronin
01. Healy

16. Best 17. McGrath 18. Porter 19. Dillane 20. Leavy 21. Cooney 22. Carbery 23. Addison

I dont think O'Mahony is over his rib injury and i prefer Cronin to Best.

stephen_n · 06-02-2019 2:28pm

slingerz wrote: »

I'd go with

15. Kearney
14. Larmour
13. Henshaw
12. Aki
11. Stockdale
10. Sexton
09. Murray
08. Conan
07. Van Der Flier
06. O'Brien
05. Roux
04. Ryan
03. Furlong
02. Cronin
01. Healy

16. Best 17. McGrath 18. Porter 19. Dillane 20. Leavy 21. Cooney 22. Carbery 23. Addison

I dont think O'Mahony is over his rib injury and i prefer Cronin to Best.

Don’t think Leavy is fit, but supposedly Earls is.

bilston · 06-02-2019 2:46pm

wittycynic wrote: »

I don't think anyone has really rated, or should rate, Best's management of referees. He has never been strong in that regard and generally fails to engage them often enough, or strongly enough.

What he said...except the exact opposite...

razorblunt · 06-02-2019 2:49pm

Buer wrote: »

If Wycherley had already picked up a couple of test caps last year, yes. If fit, Carmichael would have a very strong chance of being in their 23 right now. Swinson is in the squad but is still getting back to speed after a bad injury and surgery. Sam Skinner played blindside and covered lock for them at the weekend with no second row on the bench.

Carmichael has't consistently gotten ahead of McKenzie at Edinburgh never mind Toolis or Gilchrist though.

Clegg · 06-02-2019 2:54pm

Leavy isn't even in the squad. Can't be called up until after round 2. That's if he's even fit enough for it.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 2:55pm

Clegg wrote: »

Leavy isn't even in the squad. Can't be called up until after round 2. That's if he's even fit enough for it.

There's no restrictions in calling people up to 6 Nations squads like in the RWC. Players can be added at any stage.

Jump_In_Jack · 06-02-2019 2:56pm

Talking points:

Henshaw to start at 13 or fullback?
Seeing as Ringrose is out I reckon Henshaw will be at 13 with Kearney at fullback as that would (arguably) be better than Henshaw at fullback with any other 13.

Ireland captaincy?
Best is a shoo-in, he wouldn't have been named as captain for the tournament only to be dropped after the first match.

Stander's replacement?
I reckon O'Brien to 8 and Murphy or Conan to bench.

Anyone else "drop-able" after last week?
I'd say not.

Cosmo Kramer · 06-02-2019 2:57pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

With the exception of Watson and possibly Barclay almost all of those injured players are crap anyway, so most of them won't be any loss to them. WP Nel is out too though which will be a blow. Generally they look weak in both prop positions so we should be going after their scrum from the start.

I think we are stronger in almost every position from 1-10 with the exception of hooker, so if we perform to our standards in the forwards we should be able to grind it out without giving their outside backs a chance to do too much damage.

6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

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