6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

.ak · 06-02-2019 3:00pm

I know Roux was on the bench but do people reckon he’ll start? Funny how Beirne is back only a wet week and we’re missing him already.

Would Henshaw fit better back at 12 with Aki moving out or do we want a more ranger defender in that channel?

Any pics of Kearney training?

Yeh SOB to 8. Is ruddock in the squad?

Faugheen · 06-02-2019 3:05pm

.ak wrote: »

I know Roux was on the bench but do people reckon he’ll start? Funny how Beirne is back only a wet week and we’re missing him already.

Would Henshaw fit better back at 12 with Aki moving out or do we want a more ranger defender in that channel?

Any pics of Kearney training?

Yeh SOB to 8. Is ruddock in the squad?

I think Roux will start because he'd be most likely calling the line-out with Toner and Henderson both out.

ionadnapokot · 06-02-2019 3:17pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

As of last week:

PROP
Zander Fagerson (ankle)
Jon Welsh (tbc)

HOOKER
Fraser Brown (knee)
George Turner (ankle)

LOCK
Richie Gray (back)
Lewis Carmichael (tbc)

BACK ROW
Hamish Watson (hand)
John Barclay (Achilles)
Blade Thomson (concussion)
David Denton (head)
Matt Fagerson (shoulder)
Magnus Bradbury (shoulder)
Luke Hamilton (shoulder)
Cornell Du Preez (throat)

CENTRE
Duncan Taylor (knee)
Mark Bennett (hamstring)
Matt Scott (concussion)

WING
Byron McGuigan (tbc)
Damien Hoyland (tbc)

i thought Jonny Gray is still out?
& Sam Skinner
if so that Scottish pack is below par compared to the last couple of times Ire played them.
17'
Dell,Brown,Fagerson; R Gray, J Gray; Wilson,Watson,Strauss
Ford, Reid, Berghan, Swinson, Barclay

18'
Reid,McInally,Berghan; Gilchrist, J Gray; Barclay,Watson,Wilson
Brown, Bhatti, Nel, Swinson, Denton

19' ?
Dell,McInally,Nel; Toolis, Gilchrist; Wilson,Ritchie,Strauss
Kerr, Bhatti, Berghan, Graham, ?

Irish pack will beat them out the gate.

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 3:20pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

i thought Jonny Gray is still out?
& Sam Skinner
if so that Scottish pack is below par compared to the last couple of times Ire played them.
17'
Dell,Brown,Fagerson; R Gray, J Gray; Wilson,Watson,Strauss
Ford, Reid, Berghan, Swinson, Barclay

18'
Reid,McInally,Berghan; Gilchrist, J Gray; Barclay,Watson,Wilson
Brown, Bhatti, Nel, Swinson, Denton

19' ?
Dell,McInally,Nel; Toolis, Gilchrist; Wilson,Ritchie,Strauss
Kerr, Bhatti, Berghan, Graham, ?

Irish pack will beat them out the gate.

Think he was back training this week, whether he's 100% fit or not is a different question.

Buer · 06-02-2019 4:16pm

I really hope we don't go with SOB at 8 which there appears to be a real desire for out there. Conan started there for 4 test matches last year including the final Australian test and went well. I don't see any reason in trying to force a round peg into a square hole and ask SOB to play there. Put him in at openside where he is most effective.

I'd like to think that there was a lesson possibly learned last weekend from trying to get best players on the field through forcing them into positions they're not particularly familiar with of late. JDF was about as good as anyone on the field the other day but he just doesn't offer the carrying and poaching threat around the field which we lacked. If we want to get SOB onto the field, that's where he should go. I've a feeling that SOB will go straight in at No. 8 though and Ruddock onto the bench.

Former Former · 06-02-2019 4:43pm

Buer wrote: »

I really hope we don't go with SOB at 8 which there appears to be a real desire for out there. Conan started there for 4 test matches last year including the final Australian test and went well. I don't see any reason in trying to force a round peg into a square hole and ask SOB to play there. Put him in at openside where he is most effective.

What if Conan is the square peg and being a test quality player is the round hole?

What we saw with Larmour last week is that simply being next in line might not hack it. Just like Henshaw last week, it might not take much for Joe to decide that having SOB out of position is better than having him or VDF on the bench.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 4:57pm

Buer wrote: »

I really hope we don't go with SOB at 8 which there appears to be a real desire for out there. Conan started there for 4 test matches last year including the final Australian test and went well. I don't see any reason in trying to force a round peg into a square hole and ask SOB to play there. Put him in at openside where he is most effective.

I'd like to think that there was a lesson possibly learned last weekend from trying to get best players on the field through forcing them into positions they're not particularly familiar with of late. JDF was about as good as anyone on the field the other day but he just doesn't offer the carrying and poaching threat around the field which we lacked. If we want to get SOB onto the field, that's where he should go. I've a feeling that SOB will go straight in at No. 8 though and Ruddock onto the bench.

The difference between 12 and 15 is vastly bigger than 7 and 8.

And you can't take VdF out of the 23. He was absolutely class.

Buer · 06-02-2019 4:59pm

Former Former wrote: »

What if Conan is the square peg and being a test quality player is the round hole?

If that's the case, fair enough. But from what I saw of Conan in his appearances for Ireland last year is that he is able to step up to this level including the final test in Australia where he didn't look out of place at all.

Mr Tickle · 06-02-2019 5:00pm

Buer wrote: »

I really hope we don't go with SOB at 8 which there appears to be a real desire for out there. Conan started there for 4 test matches last year including the final Australian test and went well. I don't see any reason in trying to force a round peg into a square hole and ask SOB to play there. Put him in at openside where he is most effective.

I'd like to think that there was a lesson possibly learned last weekend from trying to get best players on the field through forcing them into positions they're not particularly familiar with of late. JDF was about as good as anyone on the field the other day but he just doesn't offer the carrying and poaching threat around the field which we lacked. If we want to get SOB onto the field, that's where he should go. I've a feeling that SOB will go straight in at No. 8 though and Ruddock onto the bench.

I think the reasoning is that Conan might not make the plane for Japan. He's a very good player but might not be versatile enough to bring. If CJ was out for a single game it would be better to be able to be able to cover with Ruddock, SOB or Murphy than having to bring Conan just for that job.

Faugheen · 06-02-2019 5:03pm

If you're starting anyone other than Conan at 8 then it has to be Murphy.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 5:07pm

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

I really hope we don't go with SOB at 8 which there appears to be a real desire for out there. Conan started there for 4 test matches last year including the final Australian test and went well. I don't see any reason in trying to force a round peg into a square hole and ask SOB to play there. Put him in at openside where he is most effective.

I'd like to think that there was a lesson possibly learned last weekend from trying to get best players on the field through forcing them into positions they're not particularly familiar with of late. JDF was about as good as anyone on the field the other day but he just doesn't offer the carrying and poaching threat around the field which we lacked. If we want to get SOB onto the field, that's where he should go. I've a feeling that SOB will go straight in at No. 8 though and Ruddock onto the bench.

I think the reasoning is that Conan might not make the plane for Japan. He's a very good player but might not be versatile enough to bring. If CJ was out for a single game it would be better to be able to be able to cover with Ruddock, SOB or Murphy than having to bring Conan just for that job.

I'd agree with that. I reckon the plan is start with a POM, VdF, Stander backline. SOB is the next man up in the 20 jersey and will start anywhere in case if injury. Then your last back rower is Nordi. But I think he'll come under pressure from Leavy who is clearly trying to broaden his game by starting at 8 against Bath. It didn't go that well but he can develop his pickup skills in time if he pushes really hard.

My world cup backrow:

POM.
VdF.
Stander.
SOB.
Leavy.

With Ruddock and Nordi having a holiday.

Buer · 06-02-2019 5:17pm

troyzer wrote: »

The difference between 12 and 15 is vastly bigger than 7 and 8.

And you can't take VdF out of the 23. He was absolutely class.

Yes it is but there are still quite specific tasks that an 8 needs to perform that no other back row player does and having someone who is comfortable at the base of the scrum is very useful for that. We saw this pretty starkly with Leinster already this season.

I never advocated taking VDF out of the team. Neither my preferred selection of Conan, VDF, POM with SOB on the bench or what I think will happen (SOB, VDF, POM with Ruddock on the bench) have him dropped. What I'm saying is that if Schmidt insists on getting SOB into the side, I would rather it is in his best position of openside than trying to get him into the team at 8.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 5:38pm

Buer wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

The difference between 12 and 15 is vastly bigger than 7 and 8.

And you can't take VdF out of the 23. He was absolutely class.

Yes it is but there are still quite specific tasks that an 8 needs to perform that no other back row player does and having someone who is comfortable at the base of the scrum is very useful for that. We saw this pretty starkly with Leinster already this season.

I never advocated taking VDF out of the team. Neither my preferred selection of Conan, VDF, POM with SOB on the bench or what I think will happen (SOB, VDF, POM with Ruddock on the bench) have him dropped. What I'm saying is that if Schmidt insists on getting SOB into the side, I would rather it is in his best position of openside than trying to get him into the team at 8.

SOB has already started I think twice this season at 8 and he was grand. It's not him taking a position he hasn't played in years.

Sure he popped into 8 on Saturday and looked like one of the best players on the pitch during his cameo.

BAM! uhavechlamydia · 06-02-2019 5:40pm

You play your best players at this point...so SOB has to start at 8...Nordi on the bench, maybe Conan if Holland isn't considered

Buer · 06-02-2019 5:46pm

troyzer wrote: »

SOB has already started I think twice this season at 8 and he was grand. It's not him taking a position he hasn't played in years.

Sure he popped into 8 on Saturday and looked like one of the best players on the pitch during his cameo.

We'll agree to disagree. He was never really asked to pack down at 8 in possession at the weekend from my recollection. He made a mess of his first scrum against Munster which led to the ball being fumbled.

I imagine he'll be relatively comfortable given Nel's expected absence but I wish to see him at 8 at this stage no more than Ruddock. Jordi Murphy is the only other one I'd be happy to see at 8 although he hasn't been playing there this season either.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 5:49pm

Buer wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

SOB has already started I think twice this season at 8 and he was grand. It's not him taking a position he hasn't played in years.

Sure he popped into 8 on Saturday and looked like one of the best players on the pitch during his cameo.

We'll agree to disagree. He was never really asked to pack down at 8 in possession at the weekend from my recollection. He made a mess of his first scrum against Munster which led to the ball being fumbled.

I imagine he'll be relatively comfortable given Nel's expected absence but I wish to see him at 8 at this stage no more than Ruddock. Jordi Murphy is the only other one I'd be happy to see at 8 although he hasn't been playing there this season either.

I thought it was very strange when he was saying on one of the podcasts how it was a major goal of his to become the first choice openside in Ireland. That he didn't like being a versatile back rower.

I mean, you have to back yourself but ask Conan or Ruddock if they'd prefer being more versatile

RebelButtMunch · 06-02-2019 6:09pm

Is rory the oldest player in the 6 nations this year? According to Wikipedia last year he was the second oldest

Squidgy Black · 06-02-2019 9:35pm

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think the reasoning is that Conan might not make the plane for Japan. He's a very good player but might not be versatile enough to bring. If CJ was out for a single game it would be better to be able to be able to cover with Ruddock, SOB or Murphy than having to bring Conan just for that job.

I think people forget how Conan absolutely tore it up at 6 in Heaslip's last season. He can't cover 7, but I certainly wouldn't be afraid to throw him in at 6 and have the likes of SOB or Leavy shift across.

Burkie1203 · 06-02-2019 10:49pm

ROC in Indo

Possible Ireland team to face Scotland: R Kearney; K Earls, R Henshaw, B Aki, J Stockdale; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best (capt), T Furlong; Q Roux, J Ryan; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, J Conan.

Clegg · 06-02-2019 10:53pm

Better place for this than the Ireland thread:

VdF being dropped seems really harsh to me. He was the best performer out of an admittedly sub par back row last weekend.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 11:01pm

Clegg wrote: »

Better place for this than the Ireland thread:

VdF being dropped seems really harsh to me. He was the best performer out of an admittedly sub par back row last weekend.

And as I said in the Ireland thread. Sends the wrong signals about working hard only to be dropped after a standout performance.

Burkie1203 · 06-02-2019 11:06pm

troyzer wrote: »

And as I said in the Ireland thread. Sends the wrong signals about working hard only to be dropped after a standout performance.

VDF didn't really have a standout performance. He was ok really without doing anything majorly brilliant.

troyzer · 06-02-2019 11:07pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

And as I said in the Ireland thread. Sends the wrong signals about working hard only to be dropped after a standout performance.

VDF didn't really have a standout performance. He was ok really without doing anything majorly brilliant.

He did absolutely everything expected of him and then some.

You pick him because he's a tackling and defensive animal. Not because of his carrying or poaching. He did exactly what it said on the tin with approximately 650 tackles.

Henry Ford III · 06-02-2019 11:45pm

troyzer wrote: »

He did absolutely everything expected of him and then some.

You pick him because he's a tackling and defensive animal. Not because of his carrying or poaching. He did exactly what it said on the tin with approximately 650 tackles.

None of them dominant.

Burkie1203 · 07-02-2019 8:33am

Thornley team, same as ROC

Ireland (possible v Scotland): Rob Kearney; Keith Earls, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rory Best (capt), Tadhg Furlong, Quinn Roux, James Ryan, Peter O’Mahony, Seán O’Brien, Jack Conan.

AbusesToilets · 07-02-2019 8:44am

Clegg wrote: »

Better place for this than the Ireland thread:

VdF being dropped seems really harsh to me. He was the best performer out of an admittedly sub par back row last weekend.

Bizarre given how relatively poor POM was by comparison. Well down in terms of tackling, think he had one lineout disruption.

troyzer · 07-02-2019 8:47am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Bizarre given how relatively poor POM was by comparison. Well down in terms of tackling, think he had one lineout disruption.

That's his game though. He's never been a man with a huge engine.

He just has the ability to have game changing moments. But when he doesn't make them, he hasn't got the work rate to make up for it.

Buer · 07-02-2019 9:22am

This isn't simply a matter of VDF dropped to get SOB back in. Stander is out. I believe Conan is viewed as the next best 8 we have. However, he's a very different type of 8 to Stander who is a workhorse and is buried into a lot of rucks. VDF's game is not concentrated on poaching or getting over the ball either. He's relatively average in that department particularly at test level.

If we were to go with VDF and Conan in the same back row, we'd have a bit of a problem at the breakdown. You need someone to counterbalance that and the obvious solution is to bring in someone like SOB who is proven class in this area which frees Conan up to make tackles and carries which is far more his game.

POM was never going to be in the conversation for being dropped given our line out wobbles and Toner not being involved. His spot is as secure as Sexton or Murray. And his work rate is perfectly fine. Just because he isn't stealing line out ball or putting in a huge tackle count doesn't mean he's not working his socks off.

Quint2010 · 07-02-2019 12:36pm

Very worried about this game. Worried that we have two twelves playing midfield. Worried about our half backs lack of form. Worried that a near 33 year old coming to the end of his career has gone back to being our first choice FB. Worried that our captain is 36 and will be 37 come the WC and who can't get around the pitch at the required pace anymore. Worried that we have picked a second row who has rarely performed well at this level and who will weaken our line out. Worried that only a month ago our starting six got a rib injury and hasn't played well since. On the credit side having SOB back is a huge boost.

Perifect · 07-02-2019 12:42pm

Let's hope this is not true but our peak might have been last season! We had enough blend of older players still playing well and the younger lads making breakthroughs. It's early days yet but this could be a season too far for some.

6n 2019 Scotland Vs Ireland build up thread

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