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Harsh sentence

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Comments

  • #62
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Off the top of my head, I would say it's about rehabilitating, protecting the public, and deterring future offenders.

    Retribution, deterrence and rehabilitation in that order.

    I didn’t actually talk about this case in reply. If rehabilitation were a primary focus then lots of people would never be jailed for major crimes and others face large sentences for minor ones.


  • #63
    Muckka
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Muckka


    Harsh sentences are made to deter people from crime's like this.

    I remember a <snip> hopping into bed beside me one time at a college house party.
    I woke up in the morning, she proceeded to try to give me a reach around.
    I pushed her hand away and said I wasn't interested, twice more she did it.
    I got up and walked out, and in the back ground I could hear her muttering something.

    I told the lads about it, they said she's a right slapper.
    I didn't even remember her hopping into bed beside me. It was my own room.
    I ****ed off into town, got the no 14 bus.
    I'd say she was an 18 at least bless her.

    I didn't feel violated but felt disgusted until around 6 that evening.

    Back in the 90's men brushed this behaviour off, not sure how it goes down today.


  • #64
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    If this was a traveller or non Irish national Im sure the responses would be different.


  • #65
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Yesterday as well.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-jailed-after-gun-fired-over-boys-head-before-horrific-sexual-attack-902494.html
    An East Cork man fired a gun over the head of a 12-year-old boy who was subjected to a horrific sexual assault and today the culprit was jailed for two-and-a-half years

    Sentencing is all over the place in this country.


  • #66
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Drunkenness doesn't give one a free pass on the consequences of his/her actions or allow a person to get off with a slap on the wrists when the crime they 'mistakenly' committed due to drink is serious. If you were walking down the street one night and a drunk man was staggering around but coming straight towards you and you put up your arm to ward him off and he in his drunken state mistakenly thinks you are going to strike him so plants you one instead smashing all your teeth, he doesn't get off by saying "but but but Judge, I thought at the time I was acting in self defence". I don't think too many of us would say "ah fair enough, honest mistake". The girl in the bed was as innocent as the man walking down the street minding his own business and she was sexually assaulted. He has to pay the consequences of that. He is probably sharing his cell with strangers now and sleeping with one eye open in case some coked up head 'mistakes' him for his boyfriend and gives him the same experience as he gave the girl. And if he was unfortunate enough that anyone did touch him, I'm sure he would want them punished properly for their crime on him.


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  • #67
    Skyrimaddict
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Skyrimaddict


    I think the largest, and most important part of the story is that he showed no remorse to the action.
    We have all done things when drunk that we should now better at, but something like this where, if true, and no remorse was shown then shows that the person thinks they did nothing wrong. That I think is the part the judge would be most concerned with.

    And to those who say if it was the other way, I once woke up to a lady who was not my Mrs trying to do similar, thought she was in a different room, I told her cop on and out she went. next day she was mortified and apologized, her BF looked a bit shook also by it, prob because he was 6 inches shorter than me and heavy so hard to mistake!!!!

    I also once grabbed a woman by the backside on holidays before, she was wearing same dress and and had very similar build and hair to my Mrs, I was sober at the time!!
    Had apologized powerfully at the time and other times when I saw her, she just joked after that she should be so lucky in future that I be single.


  • #68
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    It really doesn't matter if it was a genuine mistake.

    In determining a suitable sentence of course it matters.

    It would appear from the short article the Judge gave him a custodial sentence because he didn't appear contrite or contrite enough.

    Was that based on the fact he plead not guilty or his demeanour in court.

    It would appear he was certainly up against it on that front.
    I trusted you like a brother. My life was derailed. I felt so lost after. I felt abandoned and betrayed

    Either way, I imagine there is a lot more to this story than the small article we are privy to.


  • #69
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Boggles wrote: »
    Either way, I imagine there is a lot more to this story than the small article we are privy to.

    Absolutely


  • #70
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Harsh on the lad if it was an honest mistake but you gotta be accoutable for yer actions.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #71
    Green&Red
    Registered Users Posts: 11,387 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Feisar wrote: »
    Harsh on the lad if it was an honest mistake but you gotta be accoutable for yer actions.

    The phrase “show us your clit” would suggest he knew well what he was doing, who the f**k says that to their fiancé?


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  • #72
    Green&Red
    Registered Users Posts: 11,387 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    It’s also in line with this sentence

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rugby-coach-who-grabbed-womans-bottom-fails-in-appeal-37464256.html


  • #73
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Green&Red wrote: »
    It’s also in line with this sentence

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rugby-coach-who-grabbed-womans-bottom-fails-in-appeal-37464256.html
    Judge Patricia McNamara had imposed a two-month suspended sentence, but he had appealed the conviction

    No it isn't. :confused:


  • #74
    Scotty #
    Registered Users Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    The real punishment here is not the custodial sentence, it's the loss of anonymity.


  • #75
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Green&Red wrote: »
    The phrase “show us your clit” would suggest he knew well what he was doing, who the f**k says that to their fiancé anyone?

    Fixed that there for you, no need to thank me!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #76
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Rake of rereg posts and replies to such deleted, fyi


  • #77
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I don't think anyone here can really have a stone wall opinion on this ,

    If it was genuine mistake then yes the sentence is harsh but he could have just chanced his arm ,know what he was doing and when it didn't go as planned played I was drunk it was a mistake card, In that case then yes he deserver's every day he serves.

    So hard to judge from just reading the report, You'd really have to know the guy and seen how drunk he was or how he reacted after it ,

    Doesn't look good that he refused to admit he done anything wrong, Surely you'd be straight down the women's house or Garda station explaining the accident and station your sorry for it , Not admitting you did anything wrong is weird

    Drunk or a mistake or not it doesn't make it any better for the women who obviously suffered some distress, She's the one that people should really feel sorry for ,


  • #78
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,490 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Green&Red wrote:
    The phrase “show us your clit†would suggest he knew well what he was doing, who the f**k says that to their fiancé?
    Many people have different ways of doing things in bed. It could be some joke between them that became part of the ritual.


  • #79
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,490 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    yourdeadwright wrote:
    Doesn't look good that he refused to admit he done anything wrong, Surely you'd be straight down the women's house or Garda station explaining the accident and station your sorry for it , Not admitting you did anything wrong is weird
    He did admit he did it in a statement to a garda. He felt it was an accident and that he shouldn't be convicted of sexual assault. It was a technical not guilty not a disputing or denying the charge type of not guilty.


  • #80
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's the Independent.

    A few weeks back there was a case where a man offered to pay his ex-wife for sex, and when she refused, dragged her upstairs, punched her in the face and forcibly removed her trousers, but she fought him off before he could rape her.

    The Independent reported this case as "man hit his wife over the head in a row over sex". Like some cartoonish Flintstones escapade.

    So given the Independent's tendency to downplay sexual violence, I'm going to look at the more obvious point here:

    - This was tried in a circuit court, with a jury, rather than a district court.

    If the case was as simple as, "Ah Jaysus we were locked and I got in the wrong bed", the DPP wouldn't have brought it to the circuit court, and the man's solicitor would have advised him to plead guilty and accept a small charge.

    There is undoubtedly a lot more to this case than the Indo is reporting.


  • #81
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,502 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the Independent.

    A few weeks back there was a case where a man offered to pay his ex-wife for sex, and when she refused, dragged her upstairs, punched her in the face and forcibly removed her trousers, but she fought him off before he could rape her.

    The Independent reported this case as "man hit his wife over the head in a row over sex". Like some cartoonish Flintstones escapade.

    Not quite.

    Man who hit wife and dragged her upstairs after she refused sex walks free

    I do think the link above highlights the scatter gun attitude judges have towards sentencing and would reinforce the opinion that the custodial sentence in this case would be deemed harsh in comparison.


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  • #82
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He did admit he did it in a statement to a garda. He felt it was an accident and that he shouldn't be convicted of sexual assault. It was a technical not guilty not a disputing or denying the charge type of not guilty.

    "Judge Elma Sheahan said that Doran's failure to acknowledge his wrongdoing raised a question as to the level of insight he has into his offending"

    That's a red flag surely ? or if he said I don't remember is that a failure to acknowledge his wrong doing ?

    Either way the victim did nothing to deserve what happened, so drunk or sober it was still him wo committed the act, unfortunate or not he most be held responsible for his actions ,


  • #83
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the Independent.

    A few weeks back there was a case where a man offered to pay his ex-wife for sex, and when she refused, dragged her upstairs, punched her in the face and forcibly removed her trousers, but she fought him off before he could rape her.

    The Independent reported this case as "man hit his wife over the head in a row over sex". Like some cartoonish Flintstones escapade.

    So given the Independent's tendency to downplay sexual violence, I'm going to look at the more obvious point here:

    - This was tried in a circuit court, with a jury, rather than a district court.

    If the case was as simple as, "Ah Jaysus we were locked and I got in the wrong bed", the DPP wouldn't have brought it to the circuit court, and the man's solicitor would have advised him to plead guilty and accept a small charge.

    There is undoubtedly a lot more to this case than the Indo is reporting.

    Yes something seems to be a miss alright ,Surely the victim who knew him well would know if it was a honest mistake ?


  • #84
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Boggles wrote: »
    Not quite.
    They changed the headline after they got slaughtered for it.

    You can see the original headline here - MSN republished the article, but didn't change the headline when the Indo did:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/man-who-hit-wife-on-head-in-row-over-sex-walks-free/ar-BBOrsjf
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Yes something seems to be a miss alright ,Surely the victim who knew him well would know if it was a honest mistake ?
    I'm assuming by the article that it was his house. And although there's a lack of information in the article, I'm also going to assume that he typically shared a bed with his fiancee. So unless the victim was sleeping in their bed, it seems very unlikely that someone could make this mistake no matter how drunk/ I've never gotten plastered and wandered into the wrong bedroom in my own house.

    It's curious that the report contains only his defence ("it was a mistake") and says nothing of the prosecution facts.


  • #85
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Skyrimaddict wrote: »
    I also once grabbed a woman by the backside on holidays before, she was wearing same dress and and had very similar build and hair to my Mrs, I was sober at the time!!
    Had apologized powerfully at the time and other times when I saw her, she just joked after that she should be so lucky in future that I be single.

    I bet if you were very unattractive to her the result would have been very different.


  • #86
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,490 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    yourdeadwright wrote:
    "Judge Elma Sheahan said that Doran's failure to acknowledge his wrongdoing raised a question as to the level of insight he has into his offending"
    That's a red flag surely ? or if he said I don't remember is that a failure to acknowledge his wrong doing ?
    He pleaded not guilty and was found guilty. That is what she is referring to. He admitted what happened but felt it was not sexual assault because there was no intent to sexually assault on his part. He though it was his own bed.
    yourdeadwright wrote:
    Either way the victim did nothing to deserve what happened, so drunk or sober it was still him wo committed the act, unfortunate or not he most be held responsible for his actions ,
    Yes we have a victim, a person hurt by a very unfortunate event.
    This man has no history of law breaking let alone a sexual assault history.
    I think it's wrong that he got jailed. As I've said already I'm normally on the other side of the fence wanting bigger sentences for sexual offenders.


  • #87
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    The fact that it was an accidental assault does not mean he should not feel remorse over his actions...


  • #88
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    seamus wrote: »
    It's the Independent.

    A few weeks back there was a case where a man offered to pay his ex-wife for sex, and when she refused, dragged her upstairs, punched her in the face and forcibly removed her trousers, but she fought him off before he could rape her.

    The Independent reported this case as "man hit his wife over the head in a row over sex". Like some cartoonish Flintstones escapade.

    So given the Independent's tendency to downplay sexual violence, I'm going to look at the more obvious point here:

    - This was tried in a circuit court, with a jury, rather than a district court.

    If the case was as simple as, "Ah Jaysus we were locked and I got in the wrong bed", the DPP wouldn't have brought it to the circuit court, and the man's solicitor would have advised him to plead guilty and accept a small charge.

    There is undoubtedly a lot more to this case than the Indo is reporting.



    Agreed.

    I'm sure there is a lot more to this case that the Indo has disclosed. When sentencing, the judge takes into account a myriad of factors and circumstances around incidents so we almost certainly do not know the full story here. The fact that he pleaded Not Guilty and was subsequently found Guilty automatically means a harsher sentence than if the defendant had originally pleaded guilty.

    Why am I not surprised that some on the same posters who were taking the same side as the Ulster rugby players acquited of those sordid rape allegations are bleating on here that the sentence in this case was far too harsh?


  • #89
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,490 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    batgoat wrote:
    The fact that it was an accidental assault does not mean he should not feel remorse over his actions...
    Who said he didn't feel remorse?


  • #90
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

    Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

    Sorry but, what?

    Is this really where we are as a society?

    My wife kissed me on the back of the head this morning when she came up behind me, sexual assault in your eyes no doubt.

    #metoo


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  • #91
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    GreeBo wrote: »
    My wife kissed me on the back of the head this morning when she came up behind me, sexual assault in your eyes no doubt.
    Did you just compare a kiss on the back of the head while you're awake, with touching someone's genitals while they sleep?

    Or did you miss that bit?

    Yes, touching your partner's genitals while they're asleep, is sexual assault.

    Please tell me I didn't need to point that out.


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