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Obesity crisis in Ireland Mod Note post 1

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Dalomanakora


    It's gas seeing people act the hard man by saying nasty things like calling overweight people the C word, when in the real world, they wouldn't dare to say a thing. Pathetic really


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    It's gas seeing people act the hard man by saying nasty things like calling overweight people the C word, when in the real world, they wouldn't dare to say a thing. Pathetic really

    Acting the hard man?
    It's after hours :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Unearthly wrote: »
    I don't see how it's helpful at all to bait people with 'fat c'nts'

    Agueo I like you from the football forum but I don't think you are fair here

    You wouldn't say it to their face so why is it acceptable here?

    Aye.

    Like Augeo, I lost a chunk of weight of weight in the past. It felt good but I didn’t really talk to anyone about it. It was a personal goal. Is there anything worse than a person who is smug and sanctimonious about shedding a vice? If anything, they should be more understanding of the people still struggling the vice. I am, because weight loss is bloody hard. It takes steely focus, military organisation and determination over an extended period of time. It’s not an easy thing to do at all, no matter how many people here nonchalantly talk about calorie dedicits and personal responsibility.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Hammer89 wrote: »
    Said this before a bunch of times, I used to have a small dick when I was obese - like really small. Picture a cocktail sausage poking out of Leo Sayer's hair and you're basically picturing me naked, when I was big. Sorry for the imagery. In fact, I didn't even have a dick. In a flaccid state, I only had a bit of foreskin. Had I been circumsised, you would've just seen my helmet. Picture Darth Vader poking his head out of a window. Sorry for this imagery again, but it's important you get the point.

    Now, I did have a knob, but much of the shaft was buried beneath some pubic fat, which concealed most of my dick in a flaccid state. In an erect state, a lot more came out obviously, but even then some inches were hidden. When I lost weight, I rediscovered quite a lot of the knob I thought had been lost to obesity forever, but I don't know if I can emphasise how crushing and lonely my teenage years were. Who can you talk to about having a small dick? Even your one from Samaritans was laughing down the phone. She wasn't. I didn't ring them obviously that was a joke.

    The crazy thing is, I wasn't the exception. I'm probably breaking the obese man's Omerta here, but if you see a really fat male in the street, best believe they have a small dick. The fatter the man, the smaller his knob; not because they're all just really, really unlucky in the genetic lottery, but because you can't gain huge amounts of weight without a lot of it going in the pubic region, which can envelope your poor willy.

    If you want to stop young lads from getting obese, tell them this. Don't tell them about diabetes and heart disease and all this bollox. Statistically most of them will swerve those health complications for decades, but what they can't prevent is a significantly smaller dick. It's inevitable. They don't know that they're eating away their genitals, effectively, but they need to know. They also need to know that the damage is reversible, and that weight loss will restore their genital region to its factory settings, but they probably don't.

    *I'm talking about really fat men here. I don't want some 15-stone man, with a normal penis, thinking I'm spreading lies about him.
    Same goes for telling teenagers to wear suncream to prevent early wrinkles rather than skin cancer...care more about looks than health!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ariadne


    Aye.

    Like Augeo, I lost a chunk of weight of weight in the past. It felt good but I didn’t really talk to anyone about it. It was a personal goal. Is there anything worse than a person who is smug and sanctimonious about shedding a vice? If anything, they should be more understanding of the people still struggling the vice. I am, because weight loss is bloody hard. It takes steely focus, military organisation and determination over an extended period of time. It’s not an easy thing to do at all, no matter how many people here nonchalantly talk about calorie dedicits and personal responsibility.

    I think it's maintaining the weight loss which can be the hardest part for people who have been obese for a while. When I was 16-17 I put on 5 stone. At 21 I lost about a stone but stayed there until I was 25. At 25/26 I did weight watchers and lost 23 kg, bringing me back to roughly what I was at 16. Within 3 years I had put back on 27 kg. I've recently lost 8.3 kg again and I am hoping to lose more but this will be something I always have to battle. I've spent the last two days fighting the urge to binge, I've been distracted and unable to concentrate on anything I so badly want to binge. I've tried to distract myself so much but the urge doesn't leave me. People who say "eat less, move more" don't have a clue.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Augeo wrote: »
    You are really clinging to that stick.
    What are your views on the persistent efforts recommended?

    You were the one that brought up your qualifications. ;) Maybe you thought I’d be in awe of them? Well, nope, we apparently have similar qualifications so I know you couldn’t have read and analysed those papers enough in that time to deem them twaddle. You’ve been caught out here. This just shows why it’s almost invariably a bad idea to try and use your qualifications as a trump card.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Succubus_ wrote: »
    I think it's maintaining the weight loss which can be the hardest part for people who have been obese for a while. When I was 16-17 I put on 5 stone. At 21 I lost about a stone but stayed there until I was 25. At 25/26 I did weight watchers and lost 23 kg, bringing me back to roughly what I was at 16. Within 3 years I had put back on 27 kg. I've recently lost 8.3 kg again and I am hoping to lose more but this will be something I always have to battle. I've spent the last two days fighting the urge to binge, I've been distracted and unable to concentrate on anything I so badly want to binge. I've tried to distract myself so much but the urge doesn't leave me. People who say "eat less, move more" don't have a clue.

    Absolutely. I've known people who uttered that in the past and then gained weight later on. Some of them weren’t long changing their tune. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Augeo wrote: »
    I've scanned the topic.............. all I see is a few links to the examiner and the dailt mail.

    Where are all the science links you refer to, I thought I'd be spoilt for choice, I can't see any.

    The ole reformed whore comment, I must be getting to you. Apologies. the love comment must have it a nerve. You're a tit for tat sort, haha.
    What on earth is wrong with you?

    You were very overweight yourself so it's particularly arrogant to be so insulting to people when you too were that person. You made the changes - and well done - but you were still over 16 stone before that.

    I'm a "personal responsibility, calories in/calories out" person a lot of the time, who thinks there can be times when people are using every excuse under the sun to be lazy and over-eat/drink, but that doesn't make cases of food addiction and psychological struggles with food any less real either.

    It's not difficult to state your position without insults and spite. People who resort to that approach don't appear too comfortable with their views - why such hostility?


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    You were the one that brought up your qualifications. ;) Maybe you thought I’d be in awe of them? Well, nope, we apparently have similar qualifications so I know you couldn’t have read and analysed those papers enough in that time to deem them twaddle. You’ve been caught out here. This just shows why it’s almost invariably a bad idea to try and use your qualifications as a trump card.


    As soon as I read "METHODS
    We repeatedly measured 24-hour total energy expenditure, resting and nonresting energy expenditure, and the thermic effect of feeding in 18 obese subjects and 23 subjects who had never been obese. The subjects were studied at their usual body weight and after losing 10 to 20 percent of their body weight by " it's obviously not actual scientific evidence.

    The sample size is far too small .....18 obese subjects.

    For you to claim such utter rubbish is actual scientific proof is lunacy. It's a paper based on an insufficient sample size. Not a great trump card really.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ....
    It's not difficult to state your position without insults and spite. People who resort to that approach don't appear too comfortable with their views - why such hostility?

    I'm not being hostile or spitefull.
    There's complete and utter waffle being peddled as a defence for obesity that might at stretch apply to a small percentage of obese folk.

    The topic is obesity a crisis, not obesity for those who will suffer infinite hunger on a calorie deficit therefore are justified in doing feck all as there's some dodgy paper to back up the "theory"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    It's gas seeing people act the hard man by saying nasty things like calling overweight people the C word, when in the real world, they wouldn't dare to say a thing. Pathetic really

    Irish people are too snarky/passive aggressive/cowardly to do that.

    When you start to lose weight you'll get comments like:

    You're a veggie man are you?
    Are you trying to be Arnold Schwarzenegger lifting all those weights?
    Have a cake, stop making us look bad!
    You think you're cleverer than a doctor don't you?
    How do you not have scurvy with all the meat you eat?
    You're doing a lot of damage to the environment you know!

    Passive aggressive, never direct comments.

    Walking away from a vice whether drugs, food etc is sobering, not because of the vice itself, but the way people treat you. You make a lot of people look really bad, and rather than help you out, they will try and drag you down with them. Definitely more Irish people do this than non Irish from what I've experienced.

    It makes you far more cynical. Watch out for it.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ....I lost a chunk of weight of weight in the past........, because weight loss is bloody hard. It takes steely focus, military organisation and determination over an extended period of time. It’s not an easy thing to do at all, no matter how many people here nonchalantly talk about calorie dedicits and personal responsibility.

    Wow..... so humble.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Augeo wrote: »
    As soon as I read "METHODS
    We repeatedly measured 24-hour total energy expenditure, resting and nonresting energy expenditure, and the thermic effect of feeding in 18 obese subjects and 23 subjects who had never been obese. The subjects were studied at their usual body weight and after losing 10 to 20 percent of their body weight by " it's obviously not actual scientific evidence.

    The sample size is far too small .....18 obese subjects.

    For you to claim such utter rubbish is actual scientific proof is lunacy. It's a paper based on an insufficient sample size. Not a great trump card really.

    A few of those studies acknowledged the small sample sizes AND more crucially come with long lists of references related to the same subject. Not all of the reference studies will have small sample sizes. Not all the journals I linked had small sample sizes.

    You declared what I’d posted as twaddle mere minutes after I posted them. Anyone with the qualifications you say you have would know that that is not enough time to analyse a paper and debunk it. Never mind four different papers.

    I’m not sure why you continue to dig here. To save face?

    One and if you think I’m not letting your mention of your qualitifications go, you’d be right. You brought them up as a sort of trump card (as if biology qualifications are rare or something) and that has backfired on you. Good. I’m more than happy to let you continue digging.
    Augeo wrote: »
    Wow..... so humble.

    :D Ah, good ol’ contextonomy.

    Only one of the two of us has insulted overweight folks. Clue: it wasn’t me. Like I said, I’m happy for you to continue in this vein.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Augeo wrote: »
    I'm not being hostile or spitefull.
    Augeo wrote: »
    Wow..... so humble.
    Ya think?

    And fair enough to argue (although you were presented with numerous examples that support the theory you dismiss so readily) and debate and express your opinions but you can do so easily without the insults and sneering. Easily.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Ya think?

    And fair enough to argue (although you were presented with numerous examples that support the theory you dismiss so readily) and debate and express your opinions but you can do so easily without the insults and sneering. Easily.

    He’s riled. Hence the insults and sneering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    What you are describing there, has almost as much fat content as protein...

    Nothing inherently wrong with fat btw. But so many people seem to completely ignore the fat content when talking about certain protein rich foods.... Another one is nuts or nut butters.

    They certainly will keep the hunger away, but most of your protein should ideally be coming from lean low fat sources. If all / most of your protein is coming from fatty sources... you will eventually gain weight or struggle to lose weight. Just my experience. :)
    Are eggs high in fat?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Same goes for telling teenagers to wear suncream to prevent early wrinkles rather than skin cancer...care more about looks than health!

    That's why it'll be effective.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    He’s riled. Hence the insults and sneering.

    Riled , not at all.
    I honestly and sincerely think you are hanging your hat on a complete load of rubbish.

    You know so too as even the rubbish study did state perseverance at weight loss was beneficial.... most obese folk won't even start losing weight but to mind persevere at it.

    You're quite a sneery type yourself but don't see it of course.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ....You brought them up as a sort of trump card (as if biology qualifications are rare or something) and that has backfired on you. Good. I’m more than happy to let you continue digging.
    .

    You're digging the wrong hole here.....I never claimed to have any biology qualification...... take off the presumptive blinkers. Between them and the tunnel vision you're effectively blind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ariadne


    Augeo wrote: »
    You're digging the wrong hole here.....I never claimed to have any biology qualification...... take off the presumptive blinkers. Between them and the tunnel vision you're effectively blind.

    Yeah you said you had a related qualification, which means sfa :)


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  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Succubus_ wrote: »
    Yeah you said you had a related qualification, which means sfa :)

    Related to what did I allegedly say?

    In fairness you summed up my point for me....for many obesity is a choice, a preference even :)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109368980&postcount=364


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ariadne


    Augeo wrote: »
    Related to what did I allegedly say?

    Related to calorie deficit/bro science.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Augeo wrote: »
    You're digging the wrong hole here.....I never claimed to have any biology qualification...... take off the presumptive blinkers. Between them and the tunnel vision you're effectively blind.

    Cool cool. So to what relevant qualifications were you referring here?
    Augeo wrote: »
    Provide one link to actual science.
    I have a degree in it btw so I can decipher spoof/w@nkology from actual science quite quickly.

    Stats? Chemistry? They’d also be relevant.

    But, like it or not, the journal articles I linked are actual science. The peer-review system isn’t perfect but, for example, the NEJM would be well-regarded. You were probably hoping I’d link some articles from the Huffington Post or The Sun. But I didn’t post fluff so you had to continue to bluster about twaddle and woo science. Sorry to disappoint.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Actual science is conclusive and removes doubt by being empirical.....anything short of that is twaddle.

    :)

    Why are my qualifications of so much interest?
    I thought we weren't in a p1ssing contest?

    You still haven't offered a view on the old perseverance requirements to weight-loss.....you don't seem to like that one for whatever reason. If you don't quit you can't fail....perseverance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Augeo wrote: »
    Actual science is conclusive and removes doubt by being empirical.....anything short of that is twaddle.

    :)

    Why are my qualifications of so much interest?
    I thought we weren't in a p1ssing contest?

    This is completely wrong.

    Science is build on the concept of the falsification and the hypothesis, ie:

    As far as we know, this is how it works.

    Mathematics, sure, can be conclusive, but even then you have problems like Godels Incompleteness Theorem.

    But this is a fundamental mistake you're making. Especially with experiments/control groups.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Not at all.....take a battery....it charges exponentially....to a mathematician it's never fully charged....a scientist conifers it fully charged at a certain point despite acknowledging the exponential nature.

    To your "as far as we know, this is how it works" claim. None of the linked twaddle even claims to be that comprehensive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Here’s Prof. O’Rahilly again. The article is a decade old but is still relevant and is also easy enough to read:
    Human Obesity: A Heritable Neurobehavioral Disorder That Is Highly Sensitive to Environmental Conditions

    Stephen O'Rahilly and I. Sadaf Farooqi

    The recent increase in the worldwide prevalence of obesity has understandably focused attention on the environmental determinants of this epidemic. Whereas identifying the relative contributions of the factors underlying this recent trend is critical, a comprehensive understanding of the causes of obesity will need to explain why, even in high-risk populations, many people remain lean. Contemporary studies indicate that the heritability of adiposity remains high, even in the face of a strongly obesogenic environment. Whereas the role of inheritance has long been appreciated, only recently have we begun to develop a genuine understanding of the critical role of specific molecules in sensing the state of nutrient storage and regulating food intake and energy expenditure.
    It is only in the past 50 years or so, when for the first time in human history the majority of people in the developed and developing world can readily access sufficient daily calories to exceed the calories expended in acquiring them, that those with intrinsically higher set points have manifested their “obesity potential” on a grand scale. Unlike the “thrifty gene” hypothesis, this scenario provides a credible explanation for the fact that even in places where obesity is very common, a substantial proportion of the population remains lean.

    and a word or two about judging those who have let themselves go:
    ...rather than eliciting sympathy for a serious medical condition, obesity seems often to elicit a reaction that might be more understandable if directed at people parking inappropriately in disabled parking spaces or serially cheating on their spouses. The reasons for this revulsion are complex, culture specific, and more likely to be illuminated by philosophers and social anthropologists than by biologists, but it is clear that we have a long way to go before convincing the public and even many doctors that obesity is an affliction worthy of sympathy and serious medical research.
    A commonly expressed belief of people who are naturally lean is that, as they find little difficulty in controlling their weight, they are puzzled as to how people who are obese have “let that happen to themselves” and therefore assume that this is some sort of adverse life choice born of moral weakness. Whereas there is no doubt that emotional stresses and other factors can predispose to overeating, it is crucial that we recognize that the drive to eat varies enormously between people, with a strong genetic underpinning for that variability. Because of this, the conscious effort that needs to be made by the obese to slim down to a normal body weight is likely to be far greater than that required for a naturally lean person to remain so. This not only refers to the issue of greater appetitive drive but also to the neuroendocrine adaptations to weight loss that tend to conserve energy in the “reduced obese” state, making continued weight loss harder still (62,63).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570383/


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    That doesn't at all make out that there's an infinite hunger that can't be overcome which is what was claimed in here and allegedly backed up somewhere.

    "Because of this, the conscious effort that needs to be made by the obese to slim down to a normal body weight is likely to be far greater than that required for a naturally lean person to remain so. This not only refers to the issue of greater appetitive drive but also to the neuroendocrine adaptations to weight loss that tend to conserve energy in the “reduced obese” state, making continued weight loss harder still"

    It's tough, not easy, wow, we all know that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,875 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Herself is eastern european and there is stark differences to our eating habits. I'm not over weight but if I wasn't active I would be. She loves cooking and seasons vegetables and meat that really enhances flavouring. She eats slowly and will wait until a couple of hours after dinner for something sweet. She eats more than most irish woman I know(and is v slim after 3 kids). She also never eats low fat items. Compared to myself who throws a tin of ragu on top of pasta, scoffs down food very quickly and I'm reaching for the biscuit tin afterwards! I think its education and habits are our problem


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    I'm 50years old.
    I'm 6'1" tall
    I weigh 73kg's
    My resting heart rate is 44bpm

    I LOVE MCDonlads, Eddie Rockets and I eat a take away pizza one a week.
    I've just finished 2nd beer (500ml bottle) which is my usual Friday night tipple!

    My weekly food intake is:

    breakfast: One Banana and one Apple every day

    Lunch:
    Monday: ham and cheese panini, chocolate chip cookie and Black coffee
    Tuesday: Fresh chicken and pesto sandwich (Soda bread) and large cappachino
    Wednesday: chicken curry with rice and chips and a black coffee!
    Thursday: Bowl of spaghetti carabonara and....yep a coffee.
    Friday: Chicken and pesto sandwich on soda bread

    Dinner:
    Monday: grilled salmon, mixed salad, boiled spuds
    Tuesday: Bowl of pasta, coffee and SIX hobnob biscuits! :)
    Wednesday: ham and cheese sandwich (as I had dinner at lunch) and SIX hobnob biscuits! :)
    Thursday: ham and cheese sandwich and ..... yep SIX hobnob biscuits!
    Friday: 9inch pepperoni pizza, mixed salad, coffee aaaaad, yep 3 hobnob biscuits ( only 3 as there were none left! :( )

    Now I have no idea how many calories I've eaten this week, but the fact that I cycle 25k into work and 25k home four days a week probably has a lot to do with the fact that Im not a fat son of a *****!


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