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Gardai cricitise paedophile hunters

24567…28

Comments

  • #32
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    Have to say I disagree.

    Morale in An Gardaí Síochána is at an all time low. We don't have near enough Gardaí to properly police our cities and large town, never mind investigating cases of Pedophilia.

    In England regulated security firms are booming due to the lack of visible plod out on the beat over there, in time, the same industry will catch on here and obviously pedophile hunter groups are active and do a lot of good work over there too.

    I hope it catches on here too. Any help is good help at the end of the day and the more information gathered with the help of the aware general public can only help a police force that is struggling pretty badly right now.

    And what if they get it wrong? There's a reason we have trained police to do this work.


  • #33
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    There may well be level-headed, intelligent people in these groups but the ones I've seen online are little short of mobs. Given how easy it is for people to be falsely accused and have the accusations stick, we don't need more of these.


  • #34
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The problem I have with these groups is when instead of just taking their evidence to the police they make these videos/streams of themselves, comes across more like they're trying to build social capital online and become e-famous rather than actually pursue justice.

    I've only ever watched one of those videos - the RTE producer who got caught in Leeds. At one point, before the police arrived, nothing was happening and it was like they were all taking it in turns to call him a "diiiiirty paedo bastid" (or words to that effect), lest anyone should think that they approve of his behaviour. Whatever about the rights and wrongs of what they were doing, it was pretty cringeworthy.


  • #35
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Anything that strikes fear into the hearts of paediatricians can only be a good thing.


  • #36
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,190 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    They should spend a bit more time hunting the filthy bastards themselves.

    Five large raids in the past year alone. Think the gardai have caught up with the tech and the means of how to catch them.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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  • #37
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    Five large raids in the past year alone. Think the gardai have caught up with the tech and the means of how to catch them.


    I think it's more information is being fed to them by other jurisdictions. Also I believe, but I'm open to correction, that the raids were for child abuse pictures and videos rather than grooming.

    On the groups themselves there seems to be a certain 'type' involved in this that usually could do with finding themselves a job. Other than that I'm torn on it, the internet is a community and we could do with a lot more involvement in keeping various communities safe.

    Edit: Specifically on evidence it's fairly hard to feck up the chain of custody as they usually take it all from the offenders side as shown with the various successful prosecutions in the UK.


  • #38
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    major bill wrote: »
    As said I think they mean well but throwing up the videos live is OTT, they even got the wrong person one of the times that nearly kicked off a massive row. It was this that the Police had issues with, some said cases fell apart cos of their actions.

    I think it's more about the thrill of the hunt and the virtue signalling. To show your moral superiority while at the same time hunting down someone and a feeling of "importance" to society.

    But like why would you be interested in it in the first place is what I want to know. You don't have people who go out setting traps for people to steal cars and then encircling the people who try it with the end result claiming to clean the streets of bad guys. It's all a bit odd, I wouldn't think well of any of the people involved.

    "but my daughter..."

    uh, the best thing you can do, for the minority who even have a daughter, is to know where she is and be a responsible and upstanding father. Not carrying out what is essentially a witchhunt.


  • #39
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    Credit Checker Moose wrote: »
    Sinus pain wrote: »
    Having had to unfortunately deal with this in the past (online grooming) there was an awful lot of background work done before a successful arrest was made- contacting Snapchat, WhatsApp etc to get all the files and seizing computer equipment etc. I’d say it’s more processes and procedures and seizure of evidence (chain of custody) that the person doesn’t get away with it than anything else
    What training in the preservation of evidence have these people got?
    Who the guards?


  • #40
    Credit Checker Moose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Credit Checker Moose


    No, the Chris Hansen wannabes.


  • #41
    Sin City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Its good in theroy
    Where it falls down is when the video live stream and out the individual before he has been found guilty.


    If they ever got it wrong. They could ruin and innocent persons life
    mud sticks

    Other than that anything that makes a groomer think twice has to be a good thing


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  • #42
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    Credit Checker Moose wrote: »
    No, the Chris Hansen wannabes.
    None I would guess - that’s why the guards don’t support their work. Which is what I was getting at in my op


  • #43
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    tigger123 wrote: »
    And what if they get it wrong? There's a reason we have trained police to do this work.

    The Gardaí get it wrong sure.


  • #44
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    I've only ever watched one of those videos - the RTE producer who got caught in Leeds. At one point, before the police arrived, nothing was happening and it was like they were all taking it in turns to call him a "diiiiirty paedo bastid" (or words to that effect), lest anyone should think that they approve of his behaviour. Whatever about the rights and wrongs of what they were doing, it was pretty cringeworthy.

    Well they're not exactly wrong are they.

    That lad is out and about to re-offend again BTW.


  • #45
    baldshin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭baldshin


    There are 2 main issues with these groups.

    The first is that any evidence they gather is essentially useless in court once they post up a video or live stream of them confronting the subject, as there is no way in hell that person will ever get a fair and unbiased trial, as they have already had their image and accusations against them plastered online.

    The second, and more important from a legal perspective, is that most, if not all of the Irish stings I've seen involve members of the group pretending to be kids and actively engaging with the alleged paedophile. In these instances, there is no injured party (ie. child), that the Gardai can prosecute on behalf of. The legislation is different in the UK, where it is an offence to groom a person who you believe to be a child. In Ireland, it must be an actual child. The "hunters" have gotten this very wrong, and have effectively entrapped the person.


  • #46
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    Have to say I disagree.

    Morale in An Gardaí Síochána is at an all time low. We don't have near enough Gardaí to properly police our cities and large town, never mind investigating cases of Pedophilia.

    In England regulated security firms are booming due to the lack of visible plod out on the beat over there, in time, the same industry will catch on here and obviously pedophile hunter groups are active and do a lot of good work over there too.

    I hope it catches on here too. Any help is good help at the end of the day and the more information gathered with the help of the aware general public can only help a police force that is struggling pretty badly right now.

    Morale in AGS has been "at an all time low" ever since I emerged from primary school back in the early 1960's!

    It's one of those witless clichés that the Garda Representative Association head honchos regurgitate up every few years at their Annual Conferences to give the security journos a nice headline for their articles next day.

    Aside: Didn't some intrepid newspaper reveal that the INMO's Liam Doran had used those very words on no less than 20 occasions during his 25 years in charge of the nurses' union?


  • #47
    Vela
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Vela


    Saw one of these in action recently, whole bunch of shouting and they kept saying the guards were on the way but they never showed.


  • #48
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    I thought the "man"power at the section that checks these computers etc was overwhelmed and couldn't cope as they simply didn't have enough staff to do the work required, has this changed? have AGS increased staffing levels to what is required to nail these nonces?


  • #49
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    Well they're not exactly wrong are they.

    That lad is out and about to re-offend again BTW.

    That's not really the point. They were clearly playing it up for the cameras, all trying to outdo each other with the tabloidy rhetoric. It seemed as though it was as much about themselves as it was about protecting children.


  • #50
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,475 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote:
    That's not really the point. They were clearly playing it up for the cameras, all trying to outdo each other with the tabloidy rhetoric. It seemed as though it was as much about themselves as it was about protecting children.
    As long as they are helping to protect children it's a good thing imo.


  • #51
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,815 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    If these hunters are ok then why stop there ? Lets have vigilantes instead of a police force. I find these "hunters" to be almost as bad as the people they hunt. I have seen videos where they clearly break the law.


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  • #52
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,865 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Credit Checker Moose wrote:
    I wonder what the angle of the Gardaí is? Are they afraid of being exposed as doing f all about nonces online?


    They are afraid that the hunters will do or say something to jeopardise the case. They are afraid that the alleged paedophile could be injured.

    I don't have a problem with these hunters as such but in fairness they are mostly doing it for all the wrong reasons. They want to be "stars" themselves.

    Why do they broadcast live rather than recording & not broadcast till after the conviction?

    If they genuinely wanted to get a conviction rather than inflating their own "fame" then nothing would be made public until they secured a conviction.


  • #53
    dubdaymo
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    In my opinion, any adult, male or female, who goes online and starts communicating with anyone else whilst pretending to be a child is a pervert (as well as a headbanger).


  • #54
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    Garda Síochána 4: Citizens on Patrol.


  • #55
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    tigger123 wrote: »
    And what if they get it wrong? There's a reason we have trained police to do this work.

    I can see you didn't bother reading the article.
    The group concerned gathered evidence of the offence and handed the suspect off to the police for prosecution.
    It acts as an assistance to police rather than an alternative.


  • #56
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Would assume the fright of being captured by the paediphile hunters and the shame of the publicly circulates video would exceed any punishment are courts would give


  • #57
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,815 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Mr.S wrote: »
    Trial by public shame is far worse than any potential conviction the alleged paedophiles could end up getting - which is presumably why they live stream online. They know full well the Gardai will just release them.

    On one hand, the groups do seem to get a lot of genuinely ****ed up people, so that's a good thing. But on the other, you can't have these unregulated groups taking the law into their own hands.

    Then they get the wrong person & in some cases the person kills themselves. Or they attack a home - the wrong home.


  • #58
    Garibaldi?
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Garibaldi?


    A lot of these vigilantes come across as having serious issues themselves. They seem to take a weird, voyeuristic delight in thewhole unsavoury business!


  • #59
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,707 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I'd much prefer it if this work was left to people trained to do it, not Mary from No 23, fitting a bit of paedophile hunting in between her bingo night and zumba classes.


  • #60
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,190 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I think it's more information is being fed to them by other jurisdictions. Also I believe, but I'm open to correction, that the raids were for child abuse pictures and videos rather than grooming.

    On the groups themselves there seems to be a certain 'type' involved in this that usually could do with finding themselves a job. Other than that I'm torn on it, the internet is a community and we could do with a lot more involvement in keeping various communities safe.

    Edit: Specifically on evidence it's fairly hard to feck up the chain of custody as they usually take it all from the offenders side as shown with the various successful prosecutions in the UK.

    Yeah you're right. That's the download and distribution of illegal pics and vids, not grooming.

    I suppose one does not automatically mean the other, but Id assume there would usually be a connection, like the pics are no longer enough now so they now need a real kid.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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  • #61
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,264 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    So there is a doc on VM1 tonight at 10pm. Irish woman only nonce hunter group apparently. Never heard of them. Might be worth a giggle but an hour is a bit on the long side to be listing to ppl with thick accents from a lower working class background taking about how nobody is doing anything to catch the paedos.


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