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Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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Comments

  • #1352
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Former Former wrote: »
    The surprise is not that Cronin is dropped but that he's still in the frame at all.

    He's a better hooker than Scannell and much better than Herring. I'm very comfortable saying that and I'm ready for the Munster and Ulster backlash.

    However, to paraphrase Rob Kearney, coaches are human too. Joe just doesn't like/trust/rate Cronin for whatever reason, he never has. If Strauss' body hadn't fallen to pieces Cronin would have a fraction of the caps he has.

    Joe can see just as well as we can that the whole lineout was a mess against Italy. He saw the lack of improvement when Scannell came on. No objective review would say Cronin was the only problem, but dropping him and calling up Herring is a very clear statement of exactly that.

    Such is pro sport I guess.

    Cronin had a bad game, that can't be brushed over. He was given his chance after so long and he blew it. He was handicapped slightly with having Roux calling. Scannell should get a chance starting, if he doesn't perform then we really are in trouble at hooker.


  • #1353
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Perifect wrote: »
    Cronin had a bad game, that can't be brushed over. He was given his chance after so long and he blew it. He was handicapped slightly with having Roux calling. Scannell should get a chance starting, if he doesn't perform then we really are in trouble at hooker.

    Roux, who called the lineouts 100% in the Scotland game? That Roux?


  • #1354
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    It's pretty obvious that Croning had a mediocre game but hardly a droppable performance. The entire lineout malfunctioned and it's not just on him.


  • #1355
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Roux, who called the lineouts 100% in the Scotland game? That Roux?

    Yes. Having front line players operating the line out would have assisted Cronin, there's little doubt in that.


  • #1356
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1103239039744921601?s=20

    Ross Byrne in the squad, very interesting. I wonder if he'll actually make an appearance or if he's just holding the bags.


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  • #1357
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Ireland Squad (Guinness Six Nations Championship, Round 4)

    Forwards (21)
    Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 115 caps (c)
    Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 4 caps
    Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 12 caps
    Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps
    Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 31 caps
    Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 86 caps
    Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 43 caps
    Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
    Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 27 caps
    Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 54 caps
    Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 27 caps
    Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster) 55 caps
    Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 55 caps (vc)
    Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
    Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 11 caps
    Rhys Ruddock (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21 caps
    James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 15 caps
    John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 17 caps
    Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 12 caps
    CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 29 caps
    Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 16 caps

    Backs (16)
    Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 15 caps
    Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
    Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 18 caps
    Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 1 cap
    Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 11 caps
    John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 7 caps
    Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 75 caps
    Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
    Tom Farrell (Coolmine/Connacht) 0 caps
    Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 89 caps
    Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 11 caps
    Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 24 caps
    Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 70 caps
    Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps
    Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 81 caps (vc)
    Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 17 caps


  • #1358
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Probably still doubts over Carbery's fitness if Byrne is included. I'm pleased for him though. He's played well this season. Glad to see Marmion too. He goes straight into the 23 if fit.

    More notable is the absence of Leavy and Henshaw. I'd hoped they'd be back before the end of the tournament.


  • #1359
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,515 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    troyzer wrote: »
    Ross Byrne in the squad, very interesting. I wonder if he'll actually make an appearance or if he's just holding the bags.

    All 4 OHs are in the picture for selection for the RWC. No harm in having him in camp. All the experience he can get is beneficial.

    And Leinster have no games either so might as well get him in.

    But yeah I don't expect him to be pushing for 2nd choice


  • #1360
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    You'd have to ask what the point is in naming a 37-man squad two days before you have to announce the match-day 23.

    Leavy was never going to make it, that was just Joe bullsh1t, why he feels the need to say these things I'll never know.

    AFAIK, Cronin the only omission after Rome. This might be it for him.


  • #1361
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Clegg wrote: »
    Probably still doubts over Carbery's fitness if Byrne is included. I'm pleased for him though. He's played well this season. Glad to see Marmion too. He goes straight into the 23 if fit.

    More notable is the absence of Leavy and Henshaw. I'd hoped they'd be back before the end of the tournament.

    Guess with Leavy not back playing with Leinster to prove fitness it was looking unlikely. No Pro14 game til after 6N so say he won't be included for Wales game either.


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  • #1362
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 115 caps (c)
    Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
    Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 12 caps

    Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 27 caps
    Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 54 caps
    Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 86 caps

    Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 31 caps
    Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
    John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 17 caps

    Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 4 caps
    Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps
    Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 43 caps
    Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 11 caps
    James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 15 caps

    Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 12 caps
    Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 27 caps
    Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster) 55 caps
    Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 55 caps (vc)
    Rhys Ruddock (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21 caps
    CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 29 caps
    Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 16 caps

    John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 7 caps
    Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 24 caps
    Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 70 caps

    Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
    Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 18 caps
    Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 1 cap
    Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 81 caps (vc)

    Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 15 caps
    Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
    Tom Farrell (Coolmine/Connacht) 0 caps
    Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 18 caps

    Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 11 caps
    Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 75 caps
    Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 89 caps
    Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 11 caps
    Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 17 caps


  • #1363
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I would imagine that Leinster's lack of any matches between now and the end of the 6N is a decisive factor in including Byrne. No harm in doing so. Oddly, I think he's now playing less well than he was when he was originally left out. I certainly don't see him having much chance of being involved this weekend even if Carbery is out.

    Addison, Henshaw, Leavy, Cronin, Adam Byrne all left out for various reasons.


  • #1364
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Buer wrote: »
    I would imagine that Leinster's lack of any matches between now and the end of the 6N is a decisive factor in including Byrne. No harm in doing so. Oddly, I think he's now playing less well than he was when he was originally left out. I certainly don't see him having much chance of being involved this weekend even if Carbery is out.

    Addison, Henshaw, Leavy, Cronin, Adam Byrne all left out for various reasons.

    I agree, I think Byrne has been very average at best lately.


  • #1365
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We've only one inside centre in the squad. God forbid anything happens to Aki now. Presumably it'll now be himself and Ringrose to start the next two games.


  • #1366
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Clegg wrote: »
    We've only one inside centre in the squad. God forbid anything happens to Aki now. Presumably it'll now be himself and Ringrose to start the next two games.

    Tom Farrell plays there a bit too. And Ringrose played there along side Payne for some Australian game.

    I thought we might see Rory Scannel called in. Even as an emercency 10.
    Himself, Bundee and Tom Farrell are probably the three most durable centres we have.


  • #1367
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,337 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Former Former wrote: »
    The surprise is not that Cronin is dropped but that he's still in the frame at all.

    He's a better hooker than Scannell and much better than Herring. I'm very comfortable saying that and I'm ready for the Munster and Ulster backlash.

    However, to paraphrase Rob Kearney, coaches are human too. Joe just doesn't like/trust/rate Cronin for whatever reason, he never has. If Strauss' body hadn't fallen to pieces Cronin would have a fraction of the caps he has.

    Joe can see just as well as we can that the whole lineout was a mess against Italy. He saw the lack of improvement when Scannell came on. No objective review would say Cronin was the only problem, but dropping him and calling up Herring is a very clear statement of exactly that.

    Such is pro sport I guess.
    No backlash here.

    McBurney, not Herring, will be Ulster's replacement for Best.


  • #1368
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Mr Tickle wrote: »
    I thought we might see Rory Scannel called in. Even as an emercency 10.

    Why would we call in an emergency 10 when we've just added another to the squad :confused:


  • #1369
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,515 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Why would we call in an emergency 10 when we've just added another to the squad :confused:

    Presumably they thought Scannell would be called in prior to Byrne getting called up...


  • #1370
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,515 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Clegg wrote: »
    We've only one inside centre in the squad. God forbid anything happens to Aki now. Presumably it'll now be himself and Ringrose to start the next two games.

    If Aki were to drop I'd assume it would be Ringrose Farrell combo with Ringrose at 12.

    His versatility is a bit understated I think because he's such a good 13, but his intelligence for the game would allow him to slot in 12. Especially with a fella like Farrell playing outside him


  • #1371
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    No backlash here.

    McBurney, not Herring, will be Ulster's replacement for Best.

    Just on that, I suppose this is one of the reasons I feel Cronin being dropped from a 37 man squad is harsh. As far as I have seen Herring is not hitting his form of recent seasons so far this season. I haven't seen his performances in the past few weeks and I know he has been in try scoring form but, overall, I would have thought he had generally played himself down the pecking order?


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  • #1372
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,337 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Buer wrote: »
    Just on that, I suppose this is one of the reasons I feel Cronin being dropped from a 37 man squad is harsh. As far as I have seen Herring is not hitting his form of recent seasons so far this season. I haven't seen his performances in the past few weeks and I know he has been in try scoring form but, overall, I would have thought he had generally played himself down the pecking order?
    I don't know if he has played himself down the pecking order, but it's odd that he's parachuted in in the middle of a six nations.


    When I first heard the Cronin dropped rumours my first thought was if there was more to it. It seems... weird.


  • #1373
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Why would we call in an emergency 10 when we've just added another to the squad :confused:
    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Presumably they thought Scannell would be called in prior to Byrne getting called up...

    Basically this.
    He's also a good centre in his own right. The versatility is just an aside.


  • #1374
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Presumably they thought Scannell would be called in prior to Byrne getting called up...
    Mr Tickle wrote: »
    Basically this.
    He's also a good centre in his own right. The versatility is just an aside.

    Misread it, my bad.


  • #1375
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Mr Tickle wrote: »
    Basically this.
    He's also a good centre in his own right. The versatility is just an aside.

    I think Rory Scannell is in that group of players that Schmidt simply doesn't really rate. He has been left out of wider training squads a number of times despite starting for Munster and playing relatively well. He was getting into the squads for about a year which resulted in being capped on the weakened summer tour in 2017 but has been pretty much in the cold for a year now.


  • #1376
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Buer wrote: »
    I think Rory Scannell is in that group of players that Schmidt simply doesn't really rate. He has been left out of wider training squads a number of times despite starting for Munster and playing relatively well. He was getting into the squads for about a year which resulted in being capped on the weakened summer tour in 2017 but has been pretty much in the cold for a year now.

    The Facedoesntfits lead by captain Darren Cave.
    Although with Scannel and McCloskey Cave might not actually get selected for that team either :L

    Dennis Buckley and TOH get honorable mentions.


  • #1377
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    awec wrote: »
    I don't know if he has played himself down the pecking order, but it's odd that he's parachuted in in the middle of a six nations.


    When I first heard the Cronin dropped rumours my first thought was if there was more to it. It seems... weird.

    It's not like Cronin is being released back to Leinster. No games for Ulster either so presumably that plays a part. But does seem a bit odd that in a 37 man squad with 21 forwards there's no room for Cronin. Guess that number includes Stander and Ruddock back too though.


    Fair enough he wasn't making the 23 but to miss out on being named among 21 forwards is bit odd.


  • #1378
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Mr Tickle wrote: »
    The Facedoesntfits lead by captain Darren Cave.
    Although with Scannel and McCloskey Cave might not actually get selected for that team either :L

    Cave is an odd one. Schmidt obviously rated him to some degree and brought him to the RWC and gave him a handful of caps but since then, he has completely fallen off the radar and not only with Ireland but with his province too where he's not near first choice at this point.

    Arnold, Farrell, Aki, Addison, Ringrose, Henshaw and McCloskey have all been capped in the centre since Scannell's last one so I'd imagine he's way down the pecking order at this stage.


  • #1379
    reg114
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    How Cronin has amassed so many caps without being able to consistently throw accurate darts into a lineout is a mystery. Hes terrific in the loose and score loads of tries for Leinster but its an unforgivable flaw that he cant throw. Id say Schmidt has just lost patience with him, particularly after one of his errant throws cost Ireland a try against Italy.


  • #1380
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    reg114 wrote: »
    How Cronin has amassed so many caps without being able to consistently throw accurate darts into a lineout is a mystery. Hes terrific in the loose and score loads of tries for Leinster but its an unforgivable flaw that he cant throw. Id say Schmidt has just lost patience with him, particularly after one of his errant throws cost Ireland a try against Italy.

    His darts have been absolutely fine for Leinster though over last 2-3 years.


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  • #1381
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Perifect wrote: »
    Yes. Having front line players operating the line out would have assisted Cronin, there's little doubt in that.

    I guess Toner might have caught the overthrows that no one else got near, but then he wasn't playing, and apart from that there is nothing certain about your statement above.


This discussion has been closed.
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