Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

KrustyUCC · 06-03-2019 4:05pm

How are we deciding on new caps?

John Cooney had caps but never played six nations before this year

sydthebeat · 06-03-2019 4:08pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

How are we deciding on new caps?

the same way everyone describes "new caps" ie playing their first game for the irish senior mens team, in an WR sanctioned international test game.

06-03-2019 4:09pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

yeah fair point.... but i suppose im extrapolating new caps as a measure of the established players playing less games.... in that the less new players are capped, the more established players play.

so 2015 was 3 players capped in the 6N, but that has to be looked at from the point of view of RWC

2014 had 12 new caps.

i can see something similar this year... Jack Carty is the only new cap this year so far... and with two 6N games left i cant see anyone else being capped in this comp... possibly 1 or 2 more in the summer series

Aye, but look at Cronin v Scannell for Ireland in 2018. Scannell played 4 games and 200 minutes, Cronin played 9 games and 177 minutes.

And as we've seen yet again recently, Schmidt loves waiting until after 70 minutes to bring a player on for a token cap. Much to Ireland's detriment, particularly against England

06-03-2019 4:12pm

Synode wrote: »

Carbery is out per Newstalk

Sexton picks up a knock 5 minutes in. Put provincialism to one side - who do people want coming off the bench Byrne or Carty?

Perifect · 06-03-2019 4:13pm

Zzippy wrote: »

I guess Toner might have caught the overthrows that no one else got near, but then he wasn't playing, and apart from that there is nothing certain about your statement above.

Cronin had some bad throws, if you don't think having a superior lineout operator available would have helped, then I don't know what to tell you. Cronin doesn't throw too badly at club level. That's with superior lineout operators.

06-03-2019 4:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton picks up a knock 5 minutes in. Put provincialism to one side - who do people want coming off the bench Byrne or Carty?

Carty every day of the week.

stephen_n · 06-03-2019 4:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton picks up a knock 5 minutes in. Put provincialism to one side - who do people want coming off the bench Byrne or Carty?

On form this season and current development Carty.

Perifect · 06-03-2019 4:18pm

Carty has earned it. He should bench against France.

Eod100 · 06-03-2019 4:18pm

Synode wrote: »

Carbery is out per Newstalk

That explains Byrne being called up.

Former Former · 06-03-2019 4:19pm

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1103291669607342080

Riiiiight.

Eod100 · 06-03-2019 4:21pm

Synode wrote: »

Carbery is out per Newstalk

Must have been a press conference earlier. Just seeing the tweets:

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1103290747544047616

Eod100 · 06-03-2019 4:23pm

Former Former wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1103291669607342080

Riiiiight.

Could have just added Herring anyways and draw the line at 39 not 38 I guess.

Carbery's in squad sure and looking like he won't make it

Exclamation Marc · 06-03-2019 4:23pm

Former Former wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1103291669607342080

Riiiiight.

"Building depth at that one specific position because I don't like the other fella"

Buer · 06-03-2019 4:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton picks up a knock 5 minutes in. Put provincialism to one side - who do people want coming off the bench Byrne or Carty?

At this point in time, Carty. Byrne has not trained with the Irish squad in a few months and his form is solid but nothing special. Carty has been involved consistently over the past 5-6 weeks and his form has been good. It would make no sense to parachute Byrne in over him right now.

Eod100 · 06-03-2019 4:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sexton picks up a knock 5 minutes in. Put provincialism to one side - who do people want coming off the bench Byrne or Carty?

Hope to Christ we're getting all the injuries out of the way ahead of the RWC.. That's how it works right?!

Exclamation Marc · 06-03-2019 4:27pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

exactly my point

Yes but I would say that new caps in a post world cup year is probably somewhat forced so it skews the figures versus new caps mid-cycle when a coach is generally testing new players and branching out.

Perifect · 06-03-2019 4:31pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

"Building depth at that one specific position because I don't like the other fella"

Joe is worried! And you can see why. Best is nearly 37, he will be by the time the world cup comes round. His form hasn't been that great, what will he be like in September? Cronin finally got his go and he flopped, clearly he is superior around the field but his throwing let him down, did he freeze under pressure? Scannell came on and wasn't great either, he probably deserves a start but is he good enough? Herring coming in seems to be a desperate move.
We have real trouble at hooker. Joe and the coaching staff see it. I hope Cronin gets another go to prove himself because he clearly has a lot to offer.

Exclamation Marc · 06-03-2019 4:36pm

Perifect wrote: »

Joe is worried! And you can see why. Best is nearly 37, he will be by the time the world cup comes round. His form hasn't been that great, what will he be like in September? Cronin finally got his go and he flopped, clearly he is superior around the field but his throwing let him down, did he freeze under pressure? Scannell came on and wasn't great either, he probably deserves a start but is he good enough? Herring coming in seems to be a desperate move.
We have real trouble at hooker. Joe and the coaching staff see it. I hope Cronin gets another go to prove himself because he clearly has a lot to offer.

I agree but I think Joe (if he is) writing Cronin off after one game is foolish when the team are struggling so much.

Faugheen · 06-03-2019 4:40pm

I'd argue that while Carty is in better form, Byrne has delivered for his team on the bigger stage.

I'd be happy with either if I'm honest, but I go back to the Connacht game where Leinster's comeback was in large part thanks to Byrne. No other OH bar Sexton has form in this regard.

06-03-2019 4:42pm

Joe has been writing off Cronin as a starter for Ireland for almost his entire time as coach, in fairness.

Which is somewhat ironic given Cronin under Schmidt at leinster played:

11/12 - 11 games/12 subs 979 minutes
12/13 - 14 games/13 subs 1263 minutes

cadaliac · 06-03-2019 4:42pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I agree but I think Joe (if he is) writing Cronin off after one game is foolish when the team are struggling so much.

He's not writing him off at all imo. He is, however exploring all the other options in the 6n as he knows what he has with Cronin. Yes, 1 poor game doth butter the parsnips...
To say he flopped is also very harsh. He is still a viable option that will travel to WC.

Eod100 · 06-03-2019 4:43pm

This 6N has shown that depth at FB and hooker could be a worry as opposed to OH and SH.

Perifect · 06-03-2019 4:47pm

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I agree but I think Joe (if he is) writing Cronin off after one game is foolish when the team are struggling so much.

I think so too. Thing is, there are not many games left now. This is really bad planning, it has to be said. Obviously, Best getting older hasn't come out of the blue. For Cronin to be only getting his first start in 2019 is crazy and if he's been discarded now, it just looks like real panic. Scannell did reasonably well against Australia, if he's now the next in line, he needs to start one of the last two 6 Nations games. Do they think Herring could be ahead of Best come world cup time?

EachSmallChime · 06-03-2019 5:10pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I'd argue that while Carty is in better form, Byrne has delivered for his team on the bigger stage.

I'd be happy with either if I'm honest, but I go back to the Connacht game where Leinster's comeback was in large part thanks to Byrne. No other OH bar Sexton has form in this regard.

That would be the one game I wouldn't use to highlight Byrnes strengths. The 15-20 min comeback was needed because of a 60-65 min masterclass from Carty.
I thought he was class against Toulouse though

Burkie1203 · 06-03-2019 5:19pm

EachSmallChime wrote: »

That would be the one game I wouldn't use to highlight Byrnes strengths. The 15-20 min comeback was needed because of a 60-65 min masterclass from Carty.
I thought he was class against Toulouse though

Leinster bench made huge difference that night.

clsmooth · 06-03-2019 5:27pm

Is it that surprising that they want to have Herring about the squad? He did tour and start vs Australia last summer. Cronin wasn’t great vs Italy. Maybe he’s been a bit off behind the scenes too? There’s a lot more going on that we’re not privy too. JS doesn’t seem to be his biggest fan, but Cronin wasn’t able to nail down the Irish 2 jersey when Deccie was there either.

Faugheen · 06-03-2019 5:28pm

EachSmallChime wrote: »

That would be the one game I wouldn't use to highlight Byrnes strengths. The 15-20 min comeback was needed because of a 60-65 min masterclass from Carty.
I thought he was class against Toulouse though

Yeah, led by Byrne. His role in that comeback is criminally under appreciated. He stepped up to the line to open up play, and he nailed two conversions right on the touchline.

You ask any player what the two kicks alone do for motivation and momentum, and they'll tell you the same.

Carty put on a masterclass, but still lost.

Either way, if Ireland were losing and Sexton went down, if you looked at all the options, who has form in leading a team back to a win?

stephen_n · 06-03-2019 5:31pm

Eod100 wrote: »

This 6N has shown that depth at FB and hooker could be a worry as opposed to OH and SH.

The fact Murray is being selected despite his form suggests SH is a very real issue in depth.

Perifect · 06-03-2019 5:31pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Yeah, led by Byrne. His role in that comeback is criminally under appreciated. He stepped up to the line to open up play, and he nailed two conversions right on the touchline.

You ask any player what the two kicks alone do for motivation and momentum, and they'll tell you the same.

Carty put on a masterclass, but still lost.

Either way, if Ireland were losing and Sexton went down, if you looked at all the options, who has form in leading a team back to a win?

You can't pick the bench thinking you're going to losing when you bring players on for a start. Carthy is ahead of Byrne on form. Simple as that. Byrne's time will come.

06-03-2019 5:35pm

stephen_n wrote: »

The fact Murray is being selected despite his form suggests SH is a very real issue in depth.

It's impossible to know if there's a depth issue as Schmidt won't play anyone other than Murray unless he has no choice whatsoever.

Cooney and Marmion might be great but we won't get to know, will we?

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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