Now ye're talking - to a Nurse

Topgear on Dave · 10-02-2019 1:57am

Tigerpants wrote: »

I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.

Right there. Probably why the government wont give in.

easygoing1982 · 10-02-2019 9:21am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Right there. Probably why the government wont give in.

That's the goverments prerogative but it's also every public service employees prerogative to seek what the nurses are seeking.

tretorn · 10-02-2019 9:35am

And you will find a good number of those marching were other Public Servants who are backing the nurses knowing that if the Government give in the pay agreement is broken and its then every sector for itself.

About 90 per cent of Public Servants are on lower wages than nurses and have no allowances or promotional opportunities to make up the difference. They have no skills to offer Australia or Dubai so no way to travel to earn enough for a deposit for a mortgage.

We are in for a lot of discontent.

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 10:57am

tretorn wrote:

About 90 per cent of Public Servants are on lower wages than nurses.....

Of course they are! They have little or no qualifications and are not responsible for a stranger's life.
You really don't have a clue do you?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 10-02-2019 11:06am

khaldrogo wrote: »

are not responsible for a stranger's life.

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

easygoing1982 · 10-02-2019 11:20am

khaldrogo wrote: »

You really don't have a clue do you?

Do you?

Gloomtastic! · 10-02-2019 11:57am

You mentioned earlier about you being a union rep. Can you give us some more details please. Why did you become the rep? Was it voluntary or were you ‘chosen’? Is there a family history of political involvement? Do you get involved in politics outside of work?

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 12:04pm

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote:

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

You're wrong.
If a nurse administered an incorrect dosage of medicine due to exhaustion from lack staff causing too much work load then they are responsible.

If a midwife makes a mistake when delivering a baby and the baby dies or ends up with a life altering disability then they are responsible.

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 12:07pm

easygoing1982 wrote:

Do you?

I've been in a nurses life for their whole career. I have helped them study for exams. I know countless nurses. My brother in law is a radiologist. I have more of a clue than most of the people on here not directly in the medical field.

FaganJr · 10-02-2019 12:11pm

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 12:14pm

I think if you were to poll the nurses on this strike and ask them if they would stop all further strike action if (by some magic) the staff numbers were increased 99% would agree.

However, if they are expected to carry on as normal with the excessive workload then they deserve more money.

hawkelady · 10-02-2019 12:17pm

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote: »

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

Not wholly true. Nurses can and have been struck off and can be sued. Lose their pin /livelyhood. If a nurse is shopping in dundrum and a person in front of him/her keels over and is in cardiac arrest .. if she intervened and made a mistake or the patient dies. The nurses “help” will be looked into and they could be sued /struck off !
Would you prefer if the said nurse just stepped over the patient and kept shopping ? They have a lot of responsibility and I feel they are right to look for pay parity

hawkelady · 10-02-2019 12:19pm

FaganJr wrote: »

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel you’re being hard done by

tretorn · 10-02-2019 12:48pm

hawkelady wrote: »

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel you’re being hard done by

The nurses can look for a better job too.

Next....................

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 1:01pm

If the nurse was to look for a another position in the HSE at the same level the same problems would be there.

Next....................

Gloomtastic! · 10-02-2019 1:04pm

FaganJr wrote: »

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057919651/35/#post109385319

A little look over in the Teaching forum and you can see the rabble rousing. Remember, it’s always about the patients/pupils!!! :rolleyes:

FaganJr · 10-02-2019 1:10pm

hawkelady wrote:

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel youâ€™re being hard done by

Afraid not when your out west, trust me I look every day.
Also your missing the point, I don't feel hard done by, this is how it is in the real world.
Private sector unless you work for a multi national is governed by its own rules, especially SME's.

I'm a Nurse - AMA · 10-02-2019 1:26pm

Guffy wrote: »

What would you advise someone who is considering a nursing degree now?

I tell all the students I work with to stick in there. I tell them how worth it it is being a nurse and what rewarding moments you have, because those moments are many. I am able to share a good experience with student nurses and they can see what courses I have gotten the chance to do. I tell them all the importance of team work and to be respectful to those around them including the students that come behind them. Morale may be low at times but ultimately when you stick together the job gets done and patients are kept safe

Mr.Maroon · 10-02-2019 1:28pm

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Nurses do most the bloods and lines in an ED. On the ward I first worked on the nurses did bloods and lines there too. I would assume that most wards do but I wonder if it is all junior staff (who aren't trained) on a ward or if the nurses are overworked and doing a line or bloods would prevent other nursing care that is required thus needing a doctor to do it?

As far as I am aware in any of the hospitals I have worked in phlebotomists just do bloods and not lines but I do realise that could differ in other hospitals. I know some PICCs are too small to withdraw bloods from. In hospitals I have worked in they will generally take from PICCs but again it is not the same everywhere. Just to note, if blood can be drawn from the PICC then a nurse should be doing that to prevent a patient from being pricked when it is not required.

Thanks for the reply. Next time I'm in, I'll have to enquire further.
When your veins aren't the best - having young doctors inserting a cannula can be a painful experience.

I fully support the strike btw - I've seen first hand how difficult and challenging the work is.

I'm a Nurse - AMA · 10-02-2019 1:35pm

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote: »

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

I will give a few examples here.

When a nurse is in triage, they assess a patient and they decide when that patient should be seen by a doctor by a category. If they get that wrong and something negative happens to that patient it lies with the nurse.

If a patient absconds and something happens to them, it is often the nurse that it lies with.

Nurses carry out observations, if they do observations and do not recognise a deteriorating patient or do not do something to improve their condition then that lies with them.

As someone pointed out above, the responsibility on a midwife is huge.

Nurses and midwives are completely accountable for their actions and rightly so.

I'm a Nurse - AMA · 10-02-2019 1:39pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You mentioned earlier about you being a union rep. Can you give us some more details please. Why did you become the rep? Was it voluntary or were you ‘chosen’? Is there a family history of political involvement? Do you get involved in politics outside of work?

Hi Gloomtastic

I felt that things were getting really bad at that time. Morale was low and we were all struggling. The simple fact is that there was no union rep available for the meetings so I put my name forward. My family couldn't know less about politics if they tried and no, absolutely no involvement outside of work.

I'm a Nurse - AMA · 10-02-2019 1:43pm

Mr.Maroon wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Next time I'm in, I'll have to enquire further.
When your veins aren't the best - having young doctors inserting a cannula can be a painful experience.

I fully support the strike btw - I've seen first hand how difficult and challenging the work is.

Do. Needles are painful but as I say, if you have a PICC that blood can be drawn back from do ask why they aren't. People should never ever be afraid to ask questions when it is to do with their health. Best of luck with your health

Breege_M · 10-02-2019 2:38pm

What is your gross monthly pay. You have stated your net monthly pay to be €2,400, but deductions vary between individuals.

I'm a Nurse - AMA · 10-02-2019 2:50pm

Breege_M wrote: »

What is your gross monthly pay. You have stated your net monthly pay to be €2,400, but deductions vary between individuals.

I would have to look at a pay slip which I don't have to hand right now but my salary is available online

Looking at that it goes from 2445 for a nurse just qualified to 3880 after 15 years or long term service as per the newest payscales. You are also completely right re deductions as they do completely differ and I know mine differ to others qualified the same amount of time as me but circumstances differ.

noodler · 10-02-2019 3:15pm

Tigerpants wrote: »

I fully support the nurses but I do think something is badly wrong if you have a net pay of 2400 per month yet you find yourself in debt with a credit card etc
I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.
In the Local & European Elections in May, remember who put us here...FG FF....the nurses are not responsible for the cuts

All public sector workers have been receiving an annual uplift since 2016 (not including increments) and will receive another uplift in 2019 and 2020.

Public sector pay bill has increased by a billion in 2018 and will increase by another billion in 2019.

Roughly half of that is increases in rates (again not including increments).

easygoing1982 · 10-02-2019 4:47pm

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

If a patient absconds and something happens to them, it is often the nurse that it lies

This is a pet hate of mine. Patients don't abscond. They are not trying to escape lawful custody or arrest. They have left without treatment as is their right.

easygoing1982 · 10-02-2019 4:55pm

khaldrogo wrote: »

I've been in a nurses life for their whole career. I have helped them study for exams. I know countless nurses. My brother in law is a radiologist. I have more of a clue than most of the people on here not directly in the medical field.

Oh right. So you know countless nurses. I know a few guards and 1 solicitor. Maybe I should go on to the legal forum and start posting. After all I should have more of a clue on legal issues.

No wait. Actually I don't. But I seem to be in a better position to be commenting on this particular issue than you.

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 5:18pm

easygoing1982 wrote:

Oh right. So you know countless nurses. I know a few guards and 1 solicitor. Maybe I should go on to the legal forum and start posting. After all I should have more of a clue on legal issues.

I know some guards too and EMTs, some firemen and some army guys. I'm not posting on threads related to them as I have never spent an evening consoling them after their horrific 13 hr shift. Listening to the sorrow and frustration they felt not being able to do as much as they wanted for each patient. Listening to them worry whether they gave the right dosage at the right time. Listening to them talk about how tired they were after only getting a 45min break of the 13hrs. An then having to do it all again the next day.

khaldrogo · 10-02-2019 5:18pm

easygoing1982 wrote:

No wait. Actually I don't. But I seem to be in a better position to be commenting on this particular issue than you.

I am delighted for you.

Riraw · 10-02-2019 5:45pm

Hi,

First of all I applaud the nurses for going on strike. It is just a crying shame that it had to come to this. For such obviously needed changes to happen.

So Last year I had a 3 week stay in hospital, after 3 days on a trolley waiting for a bed.
During that time I saw minimal interaction between nurses and their patients.
Care assistants were doing the vast majority of the hands on work on my ward. Nurses were almost only on the ward during doctors rounds, and when medicines needed to be dispensed.
Many times, I saw nurses walk into the ward avoiding eye contact with all patients.

You have mentioned that nurses have taken on more responsibilities in recent years, and have a greater level of education.
So aside from the obvious understaffing issues. Has the role of a nurse expanded past providing physical care and attention to people?
Are care assistants skilled and informed of individuals circumstances enough, to provide a similar standard of care to a nurse?

When a nurses family members present at the hospital where she/he work, are they fast tracked through the services?

Do you receive thank you gifts often? What is a nice gift to give a nurse?

Are you more likely to be let out of hospital on a friday?

Now ye're talking - to a Nurse

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