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England France 6 Nations thread

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  • Bridge93 wrote: »
    While I agree with the overall sentiment, in what world did wales win comfortably last week in Paris?

    Wales had one or two individual errors punished by France in the first half but their system was far more sophisticated and it gave them a platform in the second half.

    I thought Wales were comfortable in the final quarter and France were struggling in possession and losing ground at that stage. The intercept was a result of the pressure and dominance Wales had and they saw out the final 10 without much protestation from France who were out of interest and out of energy at that point.

    Today was completely predictable based on last week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,743 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Huget should never play international rugby again. That was shameful.

    I'll retract that under the condition that he was injured because I couldn't hear commentary it's the only thing that could mitigate his performance


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know, but I would expect this England team to face far stiffer tests than the first two games. They are always going to be there or thereabouts though.
    Put to the test will they come up short as has been the case? Who knows.

    England winning is absolutely killing you, isn’t it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    emmet02 wrote: »
    England's kicking game over last two games has been absolutely perfect. Youngs, Farrell and Daly all making good decisions and executing well too.:(

    And lucky too maybe? The bounce of the ball can reward or frustrate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭iroced


    Another abysmal performance from the XV de France but in fairness that was expected.

    I've started to worry and complain and grumble about the state of French rugby back in 2009, Lièvremont's second year, precisely after our defeat in Dublin. Lièvremont wanted to make us play the way rugby's played today: fast, attacking and with high tempo and intensity throughout the whole game. I remember we played a great game in Croke Park but struggled physically after the hour mark. That's when we lost the game.
    The same scenario repeated itself in some of our following games. Lièvremont tried to warn the heads of French rugby about this problem, pointing the crazy rhytmn of Top14 and questioning the dominant style of play, pretty old fashioned.
    They did not listen. So he reverted back to a restrictive defensive game. The "problem" is this brought us a deceptive Grand Slam in 2010 and should have brought us the WC a year later. So despite a few big bloopers of a performance (our defeat to Tonga, a deceptive close win to 14-men Wales in the semis) our "heads" thought they still were in their rights. And they appointed Saint André who was a choice from the past (his titles with Sale and his good team building in Toulon overshadowed his lack of adaptation to modern rugby).

    After our disastrous last WC, we thought the long awaited revolution could eventually start and the choice of Novès was a start. Alas, politics prevailed (we only talk about business and matters and ther's always a bit of suspicion in it e.g. the sponsors on the jersey, the next WC etc... we never really talk about rugby as a sport and how to make changes from the basement to the top) and Laporte started to establish his "mafia" at the head of French rugby (with his righ-hand man Serge Simon in the background and bringing back his former assistant Jacques Brunel - a good coach but a man from the past - etc...).

    This is over. Over friom quite some time and for a long time. The only hope maybe could be from the ministry of sports if they start at some point to become too annoyed and ashamed at our neverending disastrous displays... They took action after our shameful FIFA WC 2010, well 8 years later we are World Champions. Hopefully they start seriously looking at how rugby's been managed in France...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 66,300 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    iroced wrote: »
    Another abysmal performance from the XV de France but in fairness that was expected.

    I've started to worry and complain and grumble about the state of French rugby back in 2009, Lièvremont's second year, precisely after our defeat in Dublin. Lièvremont wanted to make us play the way rugby's played today: fast, attacking and with high tempo and intensity throughout the whole game. I remember we played a great game in Croke Park but struggled physically after the hour mark. That's when we lost the game.
    The same scenario repeated itself in some of our following games. Lièvremont tried to warn the heads of French rugby about this problem, pointing the crazy rhytmn of Top14 and questioning the dominant style of play, pretty old fashioned.
    They did not listen. So he reverted back to a restrictive defensive game. The "problem" is this brought us a deceptive Grand Slam in 2010 and should have brought us the WC a year later. So despite a few big bloopers of a performance (our defeat to Tonga, a deceptive close win to 14-men Wales in the semis) our "heads" thought they still were in their rights. And they appointed Saint André who was a choice from the past (his titles with Sale and his good team building in Toulon overshadowed his lack of adaptation to modern rugby).

    After our disastrous last WC, we thought the long awaited revolution could eventually start and the choice of Novès was a start. Alas, politics prevailed (we only talk about business and matters and ther's always a bit of suspicion in it e.g. the sponsors on the jersey, the next WC etc... we never really talk about rugby as a sport and how to make changes from the basement to the top) and Laporte started to establish his "mafia" at the head of French rugby (with his righ-hand man Serge Simon in the background and bringing back his former assistant Jacques Brunel - a good coach but a man from the past - etc...).

    This is over. Over friom quite some time and for a long time. The only hope maybe could be from the ministry of sports if they start at some point to become too annoyed and ashamed at our neverending disastrous displays... They took action after our shameful FIFA WC 2010, well 8 years later we are World Champions. Hopefully they start seriously looking at how rugby's been managed in France...

    Plenty of talent in the team and in French rugby. It could be turned around quickly. Sad to see France this bad, diminishes the tournament as would an English Scottish Welsh or Irish team in the same state. Italy need to have a long look at structures too I fancy.




  • iroced wrote: »
    Another abysmal performance from the XV de France but in fairness that was expected.

    I've started to worry and complain and grumble about the state of French rugby back in 2009, Lièvremont's second year, precisely after our defeat in Dublin. Lièvremont wanted to make us play the way rugby's played today: fast, attacking and with high tempo and intensity throughout the whole game. I remember we played a great game in Croke Park but struggled physically after the hour mark. That's when we lost the game.
    The same scenario repeated itself in some of our following games. Lièvremont tried to warn the heads of French rugby about this problem, pointing the crazy rhytmn of Top14 and questioning the dominant style of play, pretty old fashioned.
    They did not listen. So he reverted back to a restrictive defensive game. The "problem" is this brought us a deceptive Grand Slam in 2010 and should have brought us the WC a year later. So despite a few big bloopers of a performance (our defeat to Tonga, a deceptive close win to 14-men Wales in the semis) our "heads" thought they still were in their rights. And they appointed Saint André who was a choice from the past (his titles with Sale and his good team building in Toulon overshadowed his lack of adaptation to modern rugby).

    After our disastrous last WC, we thought the long awaited revolution could eventually start and the choice of Novès was a start. Alas, politics prevailed (we only talk about business and matters and ther's always a bit of suspicion in it e.g. the sponsors on the jersey, the next WC etc... we never really talk about rugby as a sport and how to make changes from the basement to the top) and Laporte started to establish his "mafia" at the head of French rugby (with his righ-hand man Serge Simon in the background and bringing back his former assistant Jacques Brunel - a good coach but a man from the past - etc...).

    This is over. Over friom quite some time and for a long time. The only hope maybe could be from the ministry of sports if they start at some point to become too annoyed and ashamed at our neverending disastrous displays... They took action after our shameful FIFA WC 2010, well 8 years later we are World Champions. Hopefully they start seriously looking at how rugby's been managed in France...

    Agree with this bar Novés. If Saint André was bringing a dated gameplan then Novés was a further step back from the modern international game. I would say Novés has a better understanding of rugby and would bring up the skill level of any group he coaches - but he's painfully ill equipped at international level where detail is required to consistently break down good defences.

    Laporte is a disaster for the sport though and you can see his indifference to best practice come to life when players with dislocated knee's get taken off for head assessments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭conor678


    Plenty of talent in the team and in French rugby. It could be turned around quickly. Sad to see France this bad, diminishes the tournament as would an English Scottish Welsh or Irish team in the same state. Italy need to have a long look at structures too I fancy.

    Pretty sure that's what Conor o Shea is doing with Italy. If you look at the u20 and other junior teams they're doing quite well and have some major scalps.

    Also hired a chap from the irfu who revamped the Irish underage system and is doing the same with Italy so it's a long project but it's starting.

    Could over take France when it starts bearing fruit, who knows


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    It goes deeper than the national coach I think. Its the coaching level of the top teams that has not kept pace. It is fine within its own confines, and success in the T14 with a decent showing in the ERC can give the illusion that all is OK. But it isnt.

    Its nothing to do with foreign players. The playing numbers in France are more than enough. The raw material in the squad, physically, is still there. But the week in week out sophistication of play is not there. And a national coach cannot fix that.

    French domestic rugby has fallen behind, and it is too late to correct that at national level. Exacerbated by persevering with a French national coach who just transplants the limitations of the French club scene to the national level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    This particular one just came up on my Twitter feed.

    Hilariously grim.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    troyzer wrote: »
    This particular one just came up on my Twitter feed.

    Hilariously grim.

    https://twitter.com/ts_thesTig/status/1094622766979039232?s=19

    What's it about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Happy4all wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    This particular one just came up on my Twitter feed.

    Hilariously grim.

    https://twitter.com/ts_thesTig/status/1094622766979039232?s=19

    What's it about?

    Look at the GIF.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    troyzer wrote: »
    Look at the GIF.

    Doesn't work


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭corny


    They're poorly coached. After three phases in attack no one knows what to do next. They just throw it around and hope for the best. You would have to feel sorry for the players. They're wonderfully talented individuals but they regularly get exposed by better drilled sides. That has to be disheartening, especially if you're around a long time.

    If Schmidt went in there he'd make the problems with the league academic and within 2 years they'd be 6 nations champions.

    In short they need a Kiwi!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,519 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    England beat wales and it’s the grand slam cos they finish with Scotland Italy


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    conor678 wrote: »
    Pretty sure that's what Conor o Shea is doing with Italy. If you look at the u20 and other junior teams they're doing quite well and have some major scalps.

    Also hired a chap from the irfu who revamped the Irish underage system and is doing the same with Italy so it's a long project but it's starting.

    Could over take France when it starts bearing fruit, who knows
    Yeah Stephen Aboud is head of technical direction with Italian union and had been in same role with IRFU for 6/7 years.
    I
    It goes deeper than the national coach I think. Its the coaching level of the top teams that has not kept pace. It is fine within its own confines, and success in the T14 with a decent showing in the ERC can give the illusion that all is OK. But it isnt.

    Its nothing to do with foreign players. The playing numbers in France are more than enough. The raw material in the squad, physically, is still there. But the week in week out sophistication of play is not there. And a national coach cannot fix that.

    French domestic rugby has fallen behind, and it is too late to correct that at national level. Exacerbated by persevering with a French national coach who just transplants the limitations of the French club scene to the national level.
    its far deeper than head coach of senior national team but number of non french players is a major factor as is french sides instead of working on french players are setting up academies in Fiji etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    England beat wales and it’s the grand slam cos they finish with Scotland Italy


    Wales beat England and .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,519 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Wales beat England and .....

    England would still be favs for the championship cos of bonus points


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    To be fair to France, England were exceptionally good. They'd probably have destroyed Ireland with a similar sort of scoreline if the game was at HQ rather than in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Lucas44


    This opinion may not sit with a lot of people but genuinely feel as if Farrell is the most influential player in world rugby, England are such a better team with him playing just look back at their scores over the last two six nations he’s either assisted/scored or played a big role in the build up of their try’s


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    England were obviously a lot better butt were a lot of offsides on the kicks by England let go?
    You'd need to see slow motion replays but in real time, there seemed a bunch of them where the chaser looked a bit offside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    vetinari wrote: »
    England were obviously a lot better butt were a lot of offsides on the kicks by England let go?
    You'd need to see slow motion replays but in real time, there seemed a bunch of them where the chaser looked a bit offside.

    This is the norm with almost all kicking by all sides as far as I can see


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,300 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Lucas44 wrote: »
    This opinion may not sit with a lot of people but genuinely feel as if Farrell is the most influential player in world rugby, England are such a better team with him playing just look back at their scores over the last two six nations he’s either assisted/scored or played a big role in the build up of their try’s

    There'd be some squealing if teams spent the first half trying to take him out. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    There'd be some squealing if teams spent the first half trying to take him out. :)

    Dry your eyes mate, you can complain as much as you like but it was Scotland's key player who went off first, with a more serious injury, after a dubious late challenge. Targeting the opposition half backs is as old as rugby itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    lawred2 wrote: »
    This is the norm with almost all kicking by all sides as far as I can see

    Agreed, every team is usually at least borderline offside on kicks.
    Just seemed that England had pushed the envelope further than the norm.
    On some of the kicks, players looked a decent bit offside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,300 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Anjobe wrote: »
    Dry your eyes mate, you can complain as much as you like but it was Scotland's key player who went off first, with a more serious injury, after a dubious late challenge. Targeting the opposition half backs is as old as rugby itself.

    I didn't reference those incidents at all. I said there would be some complaining if teams spent the first half routinely trying to take Farrell out. I can hear Inverdale or Clive now. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Great result!
    England look an awesome side and will be a force to reckon with come the WC.
    The Telegraph is rejoicing in the death of French rugby, which is a tad OTT but I must say it s nice to see Les Bleus taken down a peg or 2.
    I visit France a lot, and love the people, the food etc, but that said you'll travel the globe to encounter a people so far up their own arse.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2019/02/10/magnificent-relentless-england-sound-death-knell-french-rugby/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    I didn't reference those incidents at all. I said there would be some complaining if teams spent the first half routinely trying to take Farrell out. I can hear Inverdale or Clive now. :D

    The inference was clear, do you think nobody has seen your posts in the Ire Vs Sco match thread? You think Sexton is unfairly targeted and were referencing the hypothetical fuss that would be made if the same happened to Farrell. You're wrong about Sexton, no point repeating the arguments here as it's been done to death in the other thread, and as I pointed out the only player injured as a result of an illegal tackle in the game on Saturday was Stuart Hogg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,300 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Anjobe wrote: »
    The inference was clear, do you think nobody has seen your posts in the Ire Vs Sco match thread? You think Sexton is unfairly targeted and were referencing the hypothetical fuss that would be made if the same happened to Farrell. You're wrong about Sexton, no point repeating the arguments here as it's been done to death in the other thread, and as I pointed out the only player injured as a result of an illegal tackle in the game on Saturday was Stuart Hogg.

    I didn't specifically mention an incident in Saturday's match in the other thread either. The conversation is about the hits on Sexton generally.
    To use the ;excuse' others are using for those who do hit late on the Hogg incident, 'it is because of the way he plays, O'Mahony was committed to the tackle, he didn't do anything illegal and that was backed up by the officials who took no action. So let's move on. :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    I didn't specifically mention an incident in Saturday's match in the other thread either. The conversation is about the hits on Sexton generally.
    To use the ;excuse' others are using for those who do hit late on the Hogg incident, 'it is because of the way he plays, O'Mahony was committed to the tackle, he didn't do anything illegal and that was backed up by the officials who took no action. So let's move on. :rolleyes:

    To paraphrase Luke Skywalker, everything you said in that post is wrong.


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