Frugality and Irish Society

A more important question is....has the Irish Times become the national pulpit?

It used to deliver the news in a factual, objective manner...so that we might think through an issue for ourselves.

Now the shrill moral tones from O'Toole, Boyd and Mullally are almost unbearable...its like being back at mass in the 80's, on a cold wet Sunday, with the smell of overcooked cabbage lingering in your nostrils.

Think I'll subscribe to the Telegraph.

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think Irish people as a group have some kind of need to fill up a pit of despair or emptiness within themselves, be it conscious or unconscious, with all forms of 'enjoyment' eg alcohol, constant shopping. We want, want, want all the time and we keep filling up with temporary thrills. It's because we're very insecure and lacking in self esteem imo. People from other countries I think are able to get joy from simpler living. They manage to feel defined by who they are rather than what they have. Very small example but a French lady I know will invite you to her house for lunch and make a big deal about basically some crusty bread and a glass of wine. She is so relaxed she pulls it off beautifully. In reverse no Irish person would invite a guest for lunch and give them a slice of bread. And then there's the whole Danish hygge where if I understand it properly is all about embracing cosy simple pleasures. It's not enough for us here in Ireland to have enough, we want more all the time. Not everyone obviously but I definitely think success in Ireland is measured very much by how much you own.

As an Irish person who's looked into that I'm pretty sure it's about buying more expensive beer and fancier candles?? :pac:

I'd say a lot of it comes from a historical context of poverty and state/private sector corruption. My dad's from a very working class background, my mother a much more middle class one (in the context of mid-late 20th century Ireland; her father a teacher, her grandfather a gard). The difference in their attitudes to money is very noticeable. My dad is very good at making money and absolutely allergic to it when he then has it, my mother would be much more of a tipping away and saving away person. He'll get some lump sum and almost frantically spend it on whatever he or his family/friends wants at that given moment (e.g fancy dinners, nights out, random antiques for the house), she'll put it either in sensible things like pensions or big one off splurges like holidays.

They balance each other out, she keeps him more sensible, he introduces a bit of "ah fcuk it let's splash out".

I've elements of both in myself, coming from them, and I try to be conscious of both. She comes from a place where you work hard to follow a defined path with clear outcomes and a lot of stability, the bodies of the state will protect you; he comes from a place where there's not as much opportunity or stability, if you have money today that's no guarantee of next week and the bodies of the state (are perceived to) work to take any money you try and build up, and if they don't some other fcuker will. He also grew up in the middle of the Troubles and I'd say that had an influence too, "you can't take it with you" probably lands more with a young person experiencing that, and again, more distrust of establishment narratives.

I'm not saying it's rational but it's a pretty common, and I think understandable, phenomenon for impoverished or working class demographics globally.

On the point of socio-cultural and religious influences yeah I have myself and I see in some of my peers a definite Catholic thing of accumulation of capital being icky, but just splurging that income day to day before it can accumulate being for some reason grand, particularly if you're spending it on or with other people

sabat wrote: »

I opened the home page of the opinion section on my phone a few months back and the titles of the first five editorials all contained the word "we", as if this comically insular, unrepresentative and (ironically given what they preach) monocultural cabal has both the measure of the national psyche and the correct pathway for us to take for the future.

If The Irish Times believes so much in reform and progress how come they never touch the legal system-one hugely important part of society that 90% of people would agree needs an overhaul? I'll tell you why-it's because they're as thick as fckng thieves.

100%.

And as for the BLT commentators - the good ones packed it in ages ago. Now there's just a cohort of sycophants and nutjobs.

OleRodrigo wrote: »

A more important question is....has the Irish Times become the national pulpit?

It used to deliver the news in a factual, objective manner...so that we might think through an issue for ourselves.

Now the shrill moral tones from O'Toole, Boyd and Mullally are almost unbearable...its like being back at mass in the 80's, on a cold wet Sunday, with the smell of overcooked cabbage lingering in your nostrils.

Think I'll subscribe to the Telegraph.

It’s been a pulpit for a while now. It’s hectoring tones are really class driven, as you said it’s the plain people of Ireland who get it in the neck, not the refined burghers of the leafy burbs.

You see that here in this thread too.

Actual stats.

U.K. household savings. 4.3%

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/personal-savings

Irish household savings. 11.6%

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/personal-savings

Aus household savings. 2.4%

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/personal-savings

German household savings. 10.4%

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/personal-savings

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s been a pulpit for a while now. It’s hectoring tones are really class driven, as you said it’s the plain people of Ireland who get it in the neck, not the refined burghers of the leafy burbs.

You see that here in this thread too.

I wouldn't mind but O'Toole is one of the biggest offenders despite his tendency to remind us of his humble roots.

It would be interesting to run a scan on his articles to see how many times words such as ' decency, shame, working class, proud, middle class, moral authority ' are used.

Amounts to little more than Page 3 for navel gazers, tbh.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Many of the sectors in this country are fake. They don't really do anything

A useless trinket with a circuit board comes in from Shenzhen. The government gets a small cut, the wholesaler gets a cut, reseller makes a few bob on it, if it was bought online the courier will make a few quid, sometimes someone might make a few quid from installing said trinket followed by eventually the rubbish collection company getting the last few quid on it before sending it back to China or some betrodden place in Africa.

Large swaths of the working population in Ireland produce nothing of value


Edit: I forgot to mention the do-nothing repairman who eventually comes out and charges a hefty callout fee to say "ah sorry lad that trinket is fecked buy a new one" and justifies this high callout fee by citing high insurance costs

All along those transactions some value was in fact added or service provided, including the repair. In fact they all literally add a tax on the value added, or service provided.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Many of the sectors in this country are fake. They don't really do anything

A useless trinket with a circuit board comes in from Shenzhen. The government gets a small cut, the wholesaler gets a cut, reseller makes a few bob on it, if it was bought online the courier will make a few quid, sometimes someone might make a few quid from installing said trinket followed by eventually the rubbish collection company getting the last few quid on it before sending it back to China or some betrodden place in Africa.

Large swaths of the working population in Ireland produce nothing of value


Edit: I forgot to mention the do-nothing repairman who eventually comes out and charges a hefty callout fee to say "ah sorry lad that trinket is fecked buy a new one" and justifies this high callout fee by citing high insurance costs

You've just described a supply chain and modern capitalism. I don't really see what this has to do with Ireland, what you'd propose to replace it with ? Perhaps build your own circuit board and mine your own minerals, smelt them and so on?

I mean, yes, globally we produce too much e-waste, but other than that, I'm not entirely sure how this is unique to Ireland or what alternative model you'd suggest? North Korean style self sufficiency perhaps?

Have I gone back in time to 2008?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Have I gone back in time to 2008?

Well, possibly an imagined version of it where we all do our grocery shopping by flying in our helicopters to Harrods Food Hall, rather than going in a 2008 hatchback to Aldi like the majority of us actually do.