Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Driving licence - absolute farce of a system and 83,000 waiting

13567

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I would argue that the higher speed limit on a motorway is a fairly serious
    difference, at any rate. And yes, I know that certain HQDCs have 120k limits, at least in part, but they're not that common.

    And there's a motorway around the corner from me with a speed limit of 80. You can't just pick and choose these things. If motorway driving is a requirement, then there are going to be huge regions of the country that can't hold a test centre, as they'll be too far away. Most of the time tests take place, will also be likely to be during a time of congested traffic. They'll likely not get to any great speed as they'll be going down the slip, maybe merging on, then preparing to come off (or if available, staying in an auxilary lane).

    It being called a "driving test" is a bit of a misnomer. The examiner is more concerned with risk assessment, and perception. If you can't drive, that's going to be an issue. But if you can drive and you've no ability to assess what's happening around you, it'll be a failure also. That's why it's called a "Certificate of Competence" when one passes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    And there's a motorway around the corner from me with a speed limit of 80. You can't just pick and choose these things. If motorway driving is a requirement, then there are going to be huge regions of the country that can't hold a test centre, as they'll be too far away. Most of the time tests take place, will also be likely to be during a time of congested traffic. They'll likely not get to any great speed as they'll be going down the slip, maybe merging on, then preparing to come off (or if available, staying in an auxilary lane).

    It being called a "driving test" is a bit of a misnomer. The examiner is more concerned with risk assessment, and perception. If you can't drive, that's going to be an issue. But if you can drive and you've no ability to assess what's happening around you, it'll be a failure also. That's why it's called a "Certificate of Competence" when one passes.

    Fair points about motorways. I would just say that if you've no ability to assess what's happening around you, then you can't drive! :D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Fair points about motorways. I would just say that you've no ability to assess what's happening around you, then you can't drive! :D

    Yeah. Sure I tell my kid, regardless of the car moving or not. Once the engine is on, I'm driving. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Yeah. Sure I tell my kid, regardless of the car moving or not. Once the engine is on, I'm driving. :)

    I would say you start driving before the car is in sight, Grasshopper. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    Just because someone else has an even worse system does not mean ours is fine then.

    I think the point is that the German system is better, not worse.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I wouldn't say the test is archaic, aside from the strange absence of motorway stuff. That particular corner of it needs an overhaul.

    I think if your driving fundamentals are good then motorway driving is just a natural progression and shouldn't pose a challenge to a competent driver. I'd argue that if a newly qualified driver isn't capable of safely driving on a motorway, then our driving test isn't testing core driving skills well enough. I don't think that this is the case though.

    You should be well aware of all the rules regarding stopping/merging/safe distance etc. from your theory and practical test.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Amirani wrote: »
    I think if your driving fundamentals are good then motorway driving is just a natural progression and shouldn't pose a challenge to a competent driver. I'd argue that if a newly qualified driver isn't capable of safely driving on a motorway, then our driving test isn't testing core driving skills well enough. I don't think that this is the case though.

    You should be well aware of all the rules regarding stopping/merging/safe distance etc. from your theory and practical test.

    Well alright, I'll accept that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Amirani wrote: »
    I think if your driving fundamentals are good then motorway driving is just a natural progression and shouldn't pose a challenge to a competent driver. I'd argue that if a newly qualified driver isn't capable of safely driving on a motorway, then our driving test isn't testing core driving skills well enough. I don't think that this is the case though.

    You should be well aware of all the rules regarding stopping/merging/safe distance etc. from your theory and practical test.

    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?

    Whenever reversing into/out of a parking space, into or out of a driveway, around the side of the house etc etc. it’s the principle of demonstrating you can control the speed of the car whilst avoiding an obstacle and observing safely.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?

    It just so happens, I do it every day.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?

    I do it a fair bit, yes - to the left and right. Because I can, properly and safely, with an artic if necessary! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?

    Every single day when I reverse my car into parking spaces. I would have thought similarly to you when I was originally practising it. As, to be fair, it's rare I reverse around a corner on a road in a housing estate like you generally practice on. But the skill set is the same for reverse parking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?


    It is not something most people will use day to day but it is a quick way to test the learner on a few of the basics of driving a car....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    So why don't they just get you to reverse into the space so at the test centre!? They mark you down if there's a van at the other end of the estate and you reverse around!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    So why don't they just get you to reverse into the space so at the test centre!? They mark you down if there's a van at the other end of the estate and you reverse around!

    Because to do so would miss the point - you need to be able to perform the manoeuvre competently on the public road while dealing with any extant traffic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    So why don't they just get you to reverse into the space so at the test centre!? They mark you down if there's a van at the other end of the estate and you reverse around!


    To be honest most car's park themselves these days so I don't see why anyone would want that to be part of the test, all I have to do is push a button and let go of steering...oh yeah push the accelerator


    Hardly a difficult test is it?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Rubbish. The majority don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    I agree with this but reversing around a corner? When does anyone do that in real life, honestly?

    I live in a road just wide enough for one vehicle - if you meet another car coming the other way and at certain points in the road you have to reverse competently (sometimes fora good distance) around bends and avoiding a ditch on either side - so yep reversing round a corner is very necessary. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Just as well you dont live in a country that actually takes driving seriously.

    My mother is German and had to go through their expensive and time consuming system.

    People in Ireland really think we're unique for some reason.

    I did my test in Belgium which is modelled on the German system. My daughter is doing it here. I can assure you our current system is more expensive, time consuming, RANDOMLY UNFAIR and harder to pass than the Belgian system.

    We have spent the guts of €10k already between insurance, tests and lessons.

    She just was refused a test because the passenger door was "too stiff" when opening - on a car with a fresh NCT and which 3 previous testers had no issue with the same door. It is a little bit stiff from the outside, and is perfectly fine from the inside but a kid can open it no problem.

    This is her 4th attempt,
    • 1st was a fail for hitting a kerb, other than that she had 3 minor infractions and would have passed - I have no issue with this
    • 2nd there didn't seem to be any obvious things and were vague stuff like "driving too slow up to a roundabout" ... she doesn't drive too slow, or too fast !!! - total BS and he was just making his quota.
    • 3rd attempt the brake light blew just before the test and another no test. Again no issue, just pure bad luck and the tester even gave us some time to get a new bulb ... was impossible in 5 minutes.
    • This last one was a pure joke. Probably looking for a brown envelope.

    Also the 12 lessons thing, they do the 12 lessons and *THEN* they announce that you need MORE lessons to "prepare you for the test". Pure money racket.

    To cap it all off, the waiting times are a disgrace. If you have a non test like attempt 2 or 4 you end up waiting ages for the next one. This is a huge drag on our economy.

    We will have to hire a driving test car for the test now, at an extra €120 even though there is NOTHING wrong with the car we have ... and wait 6 months again for another test, pay exorbitant insurance for her still.

    Another friend of ours whose daughter passed first time and a week later drove out from a side street in front of an oncoming car and had a nasty accident. Lucky she wasn't killed. So the test doesn't test if you are a safe driver, just that you tick whatever boxes the tester thinks is the "proper" way to drive in their opinion.

    Surely the emphasis should be on SAFE DRIVING ... but no, you have to be like a boy racer going up to roundabouts and away from the traffic lights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Aside from the higher speeds, limited access, ban on pulling over, and probably a couple of more things that I'm not thinking of right now. Learner permit holders are barred from motorways in all circumstances and thus become fully licensed without any experience of them. This needs to change.

    it doesn't need to change and it isn't out of step with other eu countries who have far busier roads. Learners need to demonstrate they can control a car before the real job of getting experience starts, and that includes motorway driving


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    I see some N drivers around lately who I have no idea how they passed at all.

    Poor/wrong road positions, wrong indicator use, failing to make progress, all very visible issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    I see some N drivers around lately who I have no idea how they passed at all.

    Poor/wrong road positions, wrong indicator use, failing to make progress, all very visible issues.

    Saw one this morning and they were edging out into a junction with traffic lights - green for them ... looking like they wanted to go left but no indicator .... bizarre.


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Clementine Obedient Hairdressing


    professore wrote: »
    I

    This is her 4th attempt,
    • 1st was a fail for hitting a kerb, other than that she had 3 minor infractions and would have passed - I have no issue with this
    • 2nd there didn't seem to be any obvious things and were vague stuff like "driving too slow up to a roundabout" ... she doesn't drive too slow, or too fast !!! - total BS and he was just making his quota.
    • 3rd attempt the brake light blew just before the test and another no test. Again no issue, just pure bad luck and the tester even gave us some time to get a new bulb ... was impossible in 5 minutes.
    • This last one was a pure joke. Probably looking for a brown envelope.



    Another friend of ours whose daughter passed first time

    Were you in the car with your daughter on 2? And in 3 it seems the tester went above and beyond to accomodate, yet you accuse him of seeking the bribe?

    And if it is all so bad, how did your friend get pass first time?


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Clementine Obedient Hairdressing


    Driving is an important skill that most people want to have. it should be available through school or the VEC, with a trial street grid created off the public roads and cars supplied for the use.


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Clementine Obedient Hairdressing


    I see some N drivers around lately who I have no idea how they passed at all.

    Poor/wrong road positions, wrong indicator use, failing to make progress, all very visible issues.

    The problem is like the NCT. You only need to be right for 40 minutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    professore wrote: »

    We have spent the guts of €10k already between insurance, tests and lessons.

    10k on lessons and tests? Insurance was what, 3k? 7 grand on lessons and tests is a warning. Some people are best getting a bus.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Were you in the car with your daughter on 2?
    Of course not.
    And in 3 it seems the tester went above and beyond to accomodate, yet you accuse him of seeking the bribe?

    I didn't accuse 3 of anything. 3 was fine and I said so. It was 4.
    And if it is all so bad, how did your friend get pass first time?

    Totally Inconsistent standards. I failed in Belgium, knew why and was told how to improve. I then passed and knew why. Here you can drive perfectly safely, fail and still have no clue how to pass the next time - or no real idea what you did wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Hoboo wrote: »
    10k on lessons and tests? Insurance was what, 3k? 7 grand on lessons and tests is a warning. Some people are best getting a bus.

    Insurance for going on 3 years at 3 grand a pop + lessons + 2 actual tests and 2 non tests, only one of which was genuine. 4-5 months waiting between each test.

    We actually follow the law, she doesn't drive without one of us present, which is a huge pain in the ass but we have no issue with it.

    Have you used the bus service lately in Cork? Totally unreliable for getting anywhere on time. Buses don't show up, are late etc. Big campaign including contacting Shane Ross who doesn't want to know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭caldew


    You are accusing the testers of having quotas and also looking for bribes. Maybe a more positive and truthful attitude would help your daughter prepare for her next test.

    12 lessons were never intended to be enough to pass the test. That's less than 12 hours of practice to drive anywhere in Europe!!!!


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    Totally Inconsistent standards. I failed in Belgium, knew why and was told how to improve. I then passed and knew why. Here you can drive perfectly safely, fail and still have no clue how to pass the next time - or no real idea what you did wrong.


    If only the tester provided you with some sheet of paper at the end showing your mistakes.......


Advertisement