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Driving licence - absolute farce of a system and 83,000 waiting

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    #92
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Sick of hearing this sh1te about quota's/bribes. Bribes don't exist, quota's don't exist, the RSA testers aren't emplyees of the NCT where it was proven bribes were taken. They are ordinary human beings with jobs to do. I was briefly acquainted with one driver tester last year in a personal capacity, he was the nicest person you could meet, but refused to speak about his job in his personal time and rightly so. Any time i've heard of someone fail it has been for good reason.

    Look at the guy in Cork who has failed 17 times, is it his fault of all the different testers nationwide who came to Cork just to test him alone are the problem? I know who i'd put my money on.


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    #93
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    If only the tester provided you with some sheet of paper at the end showing your mistakes.......

    The driving test feed back report? I got one every time and since 2013 also had a more detailed result emailed to me.


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    #94
    gct
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭gct


    It's not a fair test and the system needs overhauling. I went with my daughter to her test. She had a pretest along the route and the instructor was very happy with her driving. I waited in the waiting room while she was out. Other people left after her and returned before her. She was out at least 40 minutes while others were out 20 minutes and she was brought on a different route. This shows the test is unfair. Surely with all these mandatory lessons the pass rates should be 80% or more. Are the testers doing their jobs properly? Are the instructors doing their jobs properly? People shouldn't have to discuss what tactics will keep the testers happy! You should not be more likely to pass if the examiner sees you being dropped off in the instructors car! Surely the fact that pass rates are different in different centres shows the test is completely unfair.


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    #95
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    Totally Inconsistent standards. I failed in Belgium, knew why and was told how to improve. I then passed and knew why. Here you can drive perfectly safely, fail and still have no clue how to pass the next time - or no real idea what you did wrong.

    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote:
    The driving test feed back report? I got one every time and since 2013 also had a more detailed result emailed to me.


    Something doesn't add up so.


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    #96
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    professore wrote: »
    Insurance for going on 3 years at 3 grand a pop + lessons + 2 actual tests and 2 non tests, only one of which was genuine. 4-5 months waiting between each test.

    We actually follow the law, she doesn't drive without one of us present, which is a huge pain in the ass but we have no issue with it.

    I'm not sensing much urgency to learn/practice when you're dishing out free insurance every year at 3k a pop but thats up to you. I appreciate its much harder having to be present all the time to practice, but 3 years is an awful long time. You're getting a report from a qualified instructor after each test, and taking the word of an unqualified driver as to how they think the test went......4 times, same result, something's amiss.


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    #97
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    If only the tester provided you with some sheet of paper at the end showing your mistakes.......

    ...and maybe talked through that sheet after the test


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    #98
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ?Cee?view wrote:
    ...and maybe talked through that sheet after the test


    Why? it's assumed the potential driver can read . If they can't get someone to read it for them sorted.


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    #99
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Why? it's assumed the potential driver can read . If they can't get someone to read it for them sorted.


    You miss my point. The tester provides the sheet and will talk through issues arising from it.


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    #100
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    ...and maybe talked through that sheet after the test

    I got all that on my most recent test and the one before it in 2015.


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    #101
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ?Cee?view wrote:
    You miss my point. The tester provides the sheet and will talk through issues arising from it.


    I'm not missing your point, I think it is unnecessary. If the candidate needs a talk through discuss with whom they took lessons from.


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    #102
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm not missing your point, I think it is unnecessary. If the candidate needs a talk through discuss with whom they took lessons from.

    The driving instructor can only go over it to an extent, they aren't on the test itself, i've only ever heard of it being done once and that was at the RSA's discretion.


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    #103
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Why? it's assumed the potential driver can read . If they can't get someone to read it for them sorted.

    It is something that would be a good idea though. Yes, I think it is a given that any driver can read the tick boxes on a sheet. But it is very hard to know where those faults were incurred, especially if they are grade 2 faults where it mightn't be as obvious as a single grade 3. I think a quick debrief would be a good idea. "Sorry, but today I can't give you a pass, there were a number of faults when turning, one example would be when turning off x road on to y"... would be rather good. But on the other hand I can see why there would be some reluctance. I have heard of some very angry people after being told they've failed, and that is something that is difficult to deal with, and arguing is something no one wants in a job.

    Make no mistake the system is not perfect. The test doesn't cover anywhere near enough, the waiting lists are too long (for lots of reasons), and only in recent times have the government began to actually apply the law with regard to learner drivers. Making those with learner permits now bitter about the way things were before. It's not surprising tbh.

    EDIT: Just thinking about my one and only test which I passed, my examiner did actually do a bit of a debrief. "Well, you have passed your test but there are some areas that need a bit of work....", of course I don't remember anything about what he said given the excitement but it was a nice thing to say!


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    #104
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    It is something that would be a good idea though. Yes, I think it is a given that any driver can read the tick boxes on a sheet. But it is very hard to know where those faults were incurred, especially if they are grade 2 faults where it mightn't be as obvious as a single grade 3. I think a quick debrief would be a good idea. "Sorry, but today I can't give you a pass, there were a number of faults when turning, one example would be when turning off x road on to y"... would be rather good. But on the other hand I can see why there would be some reluctance. I have heard of some very angry people after being told they've failed, and that is something that is difficult to deal with, and arguing is something no one wants in a job.

    Make no mistake the system is not perfect. The test doesn't cover anywhere near enough, the waiting lists are too long (for lots of reasons), and only in recent times have the government began to actually apply the law with regard to learner drivers. Making those with learner permits now bitter about the way things were before. It's not surprising tbh.

    EDIT: Just thinking about my one and only test which I passed, my examiner did actually do a bit of a debrief. "Well, you have passed your test but there are some areas that need a bit of work....", of course I don't remember anything about what he said given the excitement but it was a nice thing to say!

    Very valid points you make there.

    as mentioned in my earlier post, in my recent test and in 2015 i got feedback from both, i understood what the tester said and knew exactly why it was said, they were both 100% correct.

    2 things i have heard of people failing tests for are having the radio turned on or trying to engage in a full blown conversation about the sun the moon and the stars with the tester, or even both. only once ever did i speak to a tester when out on the road, that was to seek clarity on his instruction.

    It's a tough job they have.


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    #105
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    On any of the tests I've done, I've always got feedback. Maybe the difference is that I have asked for it?


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    #106
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    On any of the tests I've done, I've always got feedback. Maybe the difference is that I have asked for it?

    I never asked for it, rather it was automatically provided, only for the artic and bike, not the other 3, I didn’t ask either on those occasions, I was just delighted to pass.


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    #107
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Amirani wrote: »
    If you drive better in your test then you'll pass it. If you want to ensure you drive better then you should do more lessons and/or practice.


    There's no need to insult the OP. I'm sure she's a perfect driver. Everyone makes mistakes when under pressure.


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    #108
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    There's no need to insult the OP. I'm sure she's a perfect driver. Everyone makes mistakes when under pressure.

    How was that an insult? It's an absolute statement of fact surely?


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    #109
    Maldesu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Maldesu


    gct wrote: »
    She had a pretest along the route and the instructor was very happy with her driving.

    A route. The tester generally will go to certain places to perform certain maneuvers but doesn't have to stick to a pattern.
    She was out at least 40 minutes while others were out 20 minutes

    RSA website states that the test can take from 30-40 mins. My own test was about 30 mins. Traffic is also a consideration. 40 minutes doesn't show the test was unfair, only that the test did the job within the expected time. Going a different route to the one she practiced isn't unfair. The point of the test is to see if someone can handle themselves on the road. If you daughter can't adjust to a change of route during the test, she isn't ready for to be on the road alone.


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    #110
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Hoboo wrote: »
    I'm not sensing much urgency to learn/practice when you're dishing out free insurance every year at 3k a pop but thats up to you. I appreciate its much harder having to be present all the time to practice, but 3 years is an awful long time. You're getting a report from a qualified instructor after each test, and taking the word of an unqualified driver as to how they think the test went......4 times, same result, something's amiss.

    She only did 2 actual tests. Others were non test.

    Basic reading comprehension is a problem for many replying here.

    Test reports are vague to say the least. If it was stuff like check your blind spot but it's all vague stuff like not fast enough here or slightly too slow there. Driving instructors all say she is an excellent driver.

    She has done hundreds of hours driving along with at least 20 lessons. There is nothing wrong with her driving. The guy who vaguely failed her said she was a good driver... Apply again and you'll pass. That was a Saturday so he probably had his quota for the week.

    So tell me, how do you appeal a non test? This last one was an utter farce. The best you can get is a free test by going to court. How is that putting safety first?

    The reality is having a driving licence is every bit as important as having education for the jobs market.


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    #111
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    She has done hundreds of hours driving along with at least 20 lessons. There is nothing wrong with her driving. .


    Clearly there is if she is incapable of passing the test.


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    #112
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Clearly there is if she is incapable of passing the test.

    Well would be nice if she was told stuff she could actually improve on and not subjective crap. The standard of testing here is extremely poor compared to what I experienced in Belgium. You got clear feedback on what you did wrong and how to improve. Not the vague stuff she got.


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    #113
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    Well would be nice if she was told stuff she could actually improve on and not subjective crap.


    Isn't it amazing though how it's always someone else's fault in this country when a person is incapable of doing something?


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    #114
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Isn't it amazing though how it's always someone else's fault in this country when a person is incapable of doing something?

    Isn't it amazing though how low standards and corruption in the public sector are the norm in this country?


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    #115
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    Isn't it amazing though how low standards and corruption in the public sector are the norm in this country?


    As I said always someone else's fault. The only low standards I see displayed here are the driving standards when tested.


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    #116
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    professore wrote: »
    Isn't it amazing though how low standards and corruption in the public sector are the norm in this country?

    It ain't just in this country, it's widespread, corruption is dealt with differently in each country, that is a different subject.

    Your suggestion that the testers are corrupt is utter garbage.


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    #117
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote: »

    Your suggestion that the testers are corrupt is utter garbage.

    Never said that. Was replying to the other poster who was replying off topic to me.


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    #118
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    Never said that. Was replying to the other poster who was replying off topic to me.


    Driving testers are employed by the state in the public sector, you have claimed it has low standards and is corrupt. Btw I have not gone off topic, surely you understand the principal of discussion.


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    #119
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Driving testers are employed by the state in the public sector, you have claimed it has low standards and is corrupt. Btw I have not gone off topic, surely you understand the principal of discussion.

    You started talking about people in this country blaming others for their problems. That's off topic. And sure yes the public sector has low standards and is corrupt. There is huge evidence of that everywhere. Hardly controversial.

    And its principle not principal.


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    #120
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    professore wrote: »
    Never said that. Was replying to the other poster who was replying off topic to me.

    What I find galling is that I and my daughter are the last people in the world to blame others for our own problems. She failed fair and square the first time and had no problem with that. The second time she and I were truly baffled that she failed. The third time the brake light blew just before the test. Again no problem, just ****ty luck.

    The last time, a pathetic excuse about the door handle being too stiff when my 83 year old mum can open it and a fresh NCT on it and also oil on the engine bay when there wasn't a drop of oil on it... He just wasn't bothered doing the test. And theres nothing that can be done except wait another 4 months and try again.

    If anyone thinks this is an efficient system then they are delusional.
    I wasn't there so i can't say much and can only go on what you say.

    Stiff door, as in to open/close or the door handle was the problem? my definition of stiff would be needing 3in1 oil or wd40 to sort it.

    When was the nct done and how far apart was it from the test? all an nct states is the car was fine on the occasion it was tested, it isn't a 1 or 2 year guarantee.

    You can appeal to the district court, the judge can award another test, if the test doesn't take place for any particular reason then that must be justified, i note you said in an earlier post you are in Cork. If it is the city then you must be referring to Wilton test centre as cars are not tested in Ballincollig.

    Only other test centres in Cork i am aware of are Mallow & Skibbereen.


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    #121
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote: »
    I wasn't there so i can't say much and can only go on what you say.

    Stiff door, as in to open/close or the door handle was the problem? my definition of stiff would be needing 3in1 oil or wd40 to sort it.

    When was the nct done and how far apart was it from the test? all an nct states is the car was fine on the occasion it was tested, it isn't a 1 or 2 year guarantee.

    You can appeal to the district court, the judge can award another test, if the test doesn't take place for any particular reason then that must be justified, i note you said in an earlier post you are in Cork. If it is the city then you must be referring to Wilton test centre as cars are not tested in Ballincollig.

    Only other test centres in Cork i am aware of are Mallow & Skibbereen.


    NCT was 2 weeks ago. Door handle was fixed with a spray of oil afterwards but it really was only slightly stiff... Its been like that for years already. I had noticed it but I didn't bother oiling it because it just wasn't an issue. Seems the NCT and the other 3 testers agreed.

    Most bizarre was the statement that there was oil all over the engine bay. You can see there isn't.

    This test wasn't done in Cork due to the excessive waiting list. I'd rather not say where as it would be too easy to narrow it down. The tester just seemed to be in a foul mood from the get go.

    Really what is the point in going to court when the most you will get is a free test? Will cost far more to appeal.


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