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Driving licence - absolute farce of a system and 83,000 waiting

12357

Comments

  • #122
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    professore wrote: »
    NCT was 2 weeks ago. Door handle was fixed with a spray of oil afterwards but it really was only slightly stiff... Its been like that for years already. I had noticed it but I didn't bother oiling it because it just wasn't an issue. Seems the NCT and the other 3 testers agreed.

    Most bizarre was the statement that there was oil all over the engine bay. You can see there isn't.

    This test wasn't done in Cork due to the excessive waiting list. I'd rather not say where as it would be too easy to narrow it down. The tester just seemed to be in a foul mood from the get go.

    Really what is the point in going to court when the most you will get is a free test? Will cost far more to appeal.

    Is that a 1.6 diesel Ford Focus engine?


  • #123
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    You started talking about people in this country blaming others for their problems. That's off topic. And sure yes the public sector has low standards and is corrupt. There is huge evidence of that everywhere. Hardly controversial.


    You daughter failed her exam several times, yet it is the fault someone else, see the connection to my comment?


  • #124
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    professore wrote:
    And its principle not principal.


    If you wish to be pedantic it's also improper to start a sentence with 'And'. Now that's off topic.


  • #125
    Galbin
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭Galbin


    There are so many issues with our testing system. I would agree that the feedback system is terrible. It should be way more specific.

    Plus it absolutely should be filmed. In my test, the tester kept waiting till the last minute to give me directions. I was then failed for not being "smooth enough." Hard to be smooth when you are given 10 seconds to make a dramatic right turn. That happened many times. If it had been filmed it would have been clear that he was not giving me the 1 minute advance notice you are supposed to give.

    The waiting times are impossible too. In the UK you get a repeat test within two weeks, so failing is not as big a deal. Whereas here you might only get two chances a year. So if you fail three or four times (as seems to be the norm in my area) it could take you 1.5 years to sit all those tests.

    I notice also that the people most in favour of the Clancy amendment are those who learned to drive at a time when you were allowed to drive on your own. Funny that...


  • #126
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Galbin wrote:
    I notice also that the people most in favour of the Clancy amendment are those who learned to drive at a time when you were allowed to drive on your own. Funny that...


    Funny at one stage you were allowed to have four pints and drive home. It has been the law for many years that you could not drive unaccompanied now the law is being enforced as it should always have been.


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  • #127
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Filming a driving test? Good luck to that proposal. GDPR will put an end to it.


  • #128
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    professore wrote: »
    Really what is the point in going to court when the most you will get is a free test? Will cost far more to appeal.

    Lodging an appeal due a civil matter is about €25, you don’t need a solicitor for it although it would be a disadvantage to not have one.

    That’s not to say that you wouldn’t get a favorable outcome representing yourself. It has happened.


  • #129
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote: »
    Lodging an appeal due a civil matter is about €25, you don’t need a solicitor for it although it would be a disadvantage to not have one.

    That’s not to say that you wouldn’t get a favorable outcome representing yourself. It has happened.

    Thanks for the advice.


  • #130
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,832 ✭✭✭daheff


    Galbin wrote: »
    Hard to be smooth when you are given 10 seconds to make a dramatic right turn. That happened many times. If it had been filmed it would have been clear that he was not giving me the 1 minute advance notice you are supposed to give

    So you think you are going to get a minutes notice of an accident occurring? Be glad if you get 2 seconds warning....not 10...or a minute

    You need to be able to react to situations as they happen. You won’t get notice


  • #131
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote: »
    Filming a driving test? Good luck to that proposal. GDPR will put an end to it.

    Any form of recording the test hasn't been permitted before GDPR was a twinkle in many an IT security officers eye!


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  • #132
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Galbin wrote: »
    There are so many issues with our testing system. I would agree that the feedback system is terrible. It should be way more specific.

    Plus it absolutely should be filmed. In my test, the tester kept waiting till the last minute to give me directions. I was then failed for not being "smooth enough." Hard to be smooth when you are given 10 seconds to make a dramatic right turn. That happened many times. If it had been filmed it would have been clear that he was not giving me the 1 minute advance notice you are supposed to give.

    The waiting times are impossible too. In the UK you get a repeat test within two weeks, so failing is not as big a deal. Whereas here you might only get two chances a year. So if you fail three or four times (as seems to be the norm in my area) it could take you 1.5 years to sit all those tests.

    I notice also that the people most in favour of the Clancy amendment are those who learned to drive at a time when you were allowed to drive on your own. Funny that...

    If someone else was giving you directions, you'd expect plenty of time for them. The examiner should be no different. If not enough time, tell them to give more notice. You also don't really have to follow their direction. You can question it and proceed past that turn.


  • #133
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Should be filmed for instructive purposes with timestamps on the report so you can see where you made mistakes as a driver. Now that would be a great system.


  • #134
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    professore wrote: »
    Should be filmed for instructive purposes with timestamps on the report so you can see where you made mistakes as a driver. Now that would be a great system.

    Not sure how this was allowed even though it was on a bike, but anyway.................




  • #135
    Galbin
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭Galbin


    daheff wrote: »
    So you think you are going to get a minutes notice of an accident occurring? Be glad if you get 2 seconds warning....not 10...or a minute

    You need to be able to react to situations as they happen. You won’t get notice

    I wasn't avoiding hazards. And when you are doing the test they are indeed meant to give you 1 minute's warning so that you have time to do MSM. In real life, people do indeed do things like go past turns if the person giving them directions gives them at the very last moment. It's not rocket science and my test did violate their very own rule. Sadly, I did not know this at the time.


  • #136
    Galbin
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭Galbin


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Funny at one stage you were allowed to have four pints and drive home. It has been the law for many years that you could not drive unaccompanied now the law is being enforced as it should always have been.

    Drink driving has been proven to reduce reaction times, control of a car etc. OTOH, leaner drivers were only involved in 5% of accidents according to most recent stats. Most learners are actually way more careful than your average driver. Plus, most learners don't drive unaccompanied until they reach a certain stage. When I first learned no way would I have driven alone as I would have panicked and stalled or whatever. If it were not against the law now though I definitely would drive alone as I actually know how to drive now.


  • #137
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Galbin wrote:
    Drink driving has been proven to reduce reaction times, control of a car etc. OTOH, leaner drivers were only involved in 5% of accidents according to most recent stats. Most learners are actually way more careful than your average driver. Plus, most learners don't drive unaccompanied until they reach a certain stage. When I first learned no way would I have driven alone as I would have panicked and stalled or whatever. If it were not against the law now though I definitely would drive alone as I actually know how to drive now.


    My point was laws change, people have to adapt no amount of whinging will change the law now as it stands. Tbh enforcement of the existing law was long overdue to bring us in line with the rest of Europe.


  • #138
    Galbin
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭Galbin


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    My point was laws change, people have to adapt no amount of whinging will change the law now as it stands. Tbh enforcement of the existing law was long overdue to bring us in line with the rest of Europe.

    Why should we be in line with the rest of Europe? The roads and traffic systems are unique to each country.


  • #139
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Galbin wrote:
    Why should we be in line with the rest of Europe? The roads and traffic systems are unique to each country.
    Do you think the NCT was an Irish idea or a directive from Europe for example. As I said the law now that is being enforced is what applies and any amount of whinging cries about corruption changes nothing.


  • #140
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Galbin wrote: »
    I wasn't avoiding hazards. And when you are doing the test they are indeed meant to give you 1 minute's warning so that you have time to do MSM.

    I'm not sure where you're getting this 1 minute warning thing from. You're not supposed to be given 1 minute warning at all, that's in no way practicable or realistic.


  • #141
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Galbin wrote: »
    Plus, most learners don't drive unaccompanied until they reach a certain stage..


    "Most" is not all. And should they be the judge of that stage, given that they have least experience in driving? Society has decided that the stage at which people drive unaccompanied is after they pass a test.



    People wil be driving for 60+ years, waiting a couple of months to start will be neither here nor there if it ensures that they are likely to have reached a proper standard.


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  • #142
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    We have an appalling attitude to driving legislation in this country. If it doesn't suit us personally, we ignore it and this is fuelled by poor detection rates.


  • #143
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,947 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Natalie Aggressive Dirt wrote: »
    Not sure how this was allowed even though it was on a bike, but anyway.................
    I'd say the examiner didn't know/didn't care or the candidate just said the camera wasn't running. Pretty competent riding all the same. I did it under the old system. They were just introducing the ear pieces and I was informed that I'd be one of the pilot tests but they abandoned it on the day as it was a complete disaster with the few other guinea pigs before me. So I ended up just doing the old system. They must have improved it since then.

    (Looks like that examiner had an inspector with him also).


  • #144
    MascotDec85
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Galbin wrote: »
    I wasn't avoiding hazards. And when you are doing the test they are indeed meant to give you 1 minute's warning so that you have time to do MSM. In real life, people do indeed do things like go past turns if the person giving them directions gives them at the very last moment. It's not rocket science and my test did violate their very own rule. Sadly, I did not know this at the time.

    Where are you getting this 1 minute notice from? It is absolutely not the case


  • #145
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,832 ✭✭✭daheff


    Galbin wrote: »
    I wasn't avoiding hazards. And when you are doing the test they are indeed meant to give you 1 minute's warning so that you have time to do MSM. In real life, people do indeed do things like go past turns if the person giving them directions gives them at the very last moment. It's not rocket science and my test did violate their very own rule. Sadly, I did not know this at the time.

    Can you point out a reliable reference that confirms your 1 min notice rule?

    The whole point of the test is to show you are a competent driver and can react safely to situations as they arise.


  • #146
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭J_R


    Galbin wrote: »
    I wasn't avoiding hazards. And when you are doing the test they are indeed meant to give you 1 minute's warning so that you have time to do MSM. In real life, people do indeed do things like go past turns if the person giving them directions gives them at the very last moment. It's not rocket science and my test did violate their very own rule. Sadly, I did not know this at the time.


    daheff wrote: »
    Can you point out a reliable reference that confirms your 1 min notice rule?

    The whole point of the test is to show you are a competent driver and can react safely to situations as they arise.

    +1

    Hi,

    Just because you are doing a driving test is no reason to suspend all common-sense.
    So for example, if the examiner gives an order that would be unsafe or dangerous to execute, you just ignore. You could add a simple reason, sorry, too late.

    Pupil of mine then asked, "what do you want me to do now" Examiner "You have left us no option, continue on ". she got no marks.

    Also re, 1 min warning, travelling at 50 Kmh the tester would have to give you directions 833 meters back from the junction - 25 Kmh 400 odd meters.


  • #147
    Galbin
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭Galbin


    Amirani wrote: »
    I'm not sure where you're getting this 1 minute warning thing from. You're not supposed to be given 1 minute warning at all, that's in no way practicable or realistic.


    Two separate instructors told me about the one minute warning. And yes it is realistic. Whenever I am a passenger giving directions I give them well in advance. I don't wait until we are just at the turn.


  • #148
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭J_R


    Galbin wrote: »
    Two separate instructors told me about the one minute warning. And yes it is realistic. Whenever I am a passenger giving directions I give them well in advance. I don't wait until we are just at the turn.

    Hi,

    Sorry, but both instructors are definitely wrong. There is no such rule. It would be impossible, impractical to implement. For example the examiners would have to give directions such as "I want you to take the fifth turn on the left".

    If an examiner gives a late direction the applicant need only ignore and then complain that they were not given sufficient time to safely complete the manoeuvre. Highly unlikely it would happen again.

    I used to tell my pupils to ignore, then afterwards say something like "New on the job are you ???.

    The instructors are wrong about this, strong possibility that they will also be wrong about other stuff as well.


  • #149
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,947 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Galbin wrote: »
    Two separate instructors told me about the one minute warning. And yes it is realistic.....
    Absolute nonsense and totally impractical and confusing. If a route had multiple junctions very close together, the examiner would have to give several instructions in advance. I've done the tests for all categories of vehicles using several different schools/instructors and I've never heard of a one minute rule.

    (The only time instruction were given long in advance was under the old motorcycle test system but that was pre ear-pieces and the examiner had no choice but to give all directions in advance).


  • #150
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Absolute nonsense and totally impractical and confusing. If a route had multiple junctions very close together, the examiner would have to give several instructions in advance. I've done the tests for all categories of vehicles using several different schools/instructors and I've never heard of a one minute rule.

    (The only time instruction were given long in advance was under the old motorcycle test system but that was pre ear-pieces and the examiner had no choice but to give all directions in advance).

    +1 on the above. Done the same myself.


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  • #151
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Galbin wrote: »
    Two separate instructors told me about the one minute warning. And yes it is realistic. Whenever I am a passenger giving directions I give them well in advance. I don't wait until we are just at the turn.

    Well either they're wrong, you misheard them or you're taking their "a minute before" too literally.


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